(OPEN CHALLENGE) Exar Kun vs Lord Emperor Vitiate

Exar Kun in his prime (TOTJ).

Vitiate as of the novelisation.


No Malak quote, so there's nowhere to hide. But I'm willing to argue its reliability and meaning.

Setting: Old Senate Chamber.

- Force
- All-out

Who wins?

Should the mods move this to the debate forum?

Not accepting, just wondering if this thread is in the right place.

No, it's an open challenge not an SS.

Exar Kun

Vitiate.

Kun

Vitiate. Setting aside all "most powerful" and similar quotes, he has all of Kun's hax, greater experience, and even without convoluted scaling chains he has greater showings of power (annihilating an entire Dark Council, overpowering Revan Reborn, etc).

vitiate stomps

@BoD As of novel

@IG Thanks, fixed it.

BoD wrote:Vitiate. Setting aside all "most powerful" and similar quotes, he has all of Kun's hax, greater experience, and even without convoluted scaling chains he has greater showings of power (annihilating an entire Dark Council, overpowering Revan Reborn, etc).

Isv laughed, all masters tested their apprentices from time to time.


This would test BoD most of all.


Last of the Kunts: A Tangled Web of Dark Power


So my young disciple. You wish to challenge the great Exar Kun? Splendid. We will be using your above comment for this debate, that comment being "setting aside all most powerful quotes." So now, didn't you say Vitiate has the same hax?

The dark knowledge of the Sith teachings died with Kun, it is extremely unlikely that any records survive, either on Yavin IV or elsewhere.

- The Jedi Academy Sourcebook

Well, BoD. Kuedos for actually making some sort of case.

First of all, all of Vitiate's quotes are IU and don't apply until the Battle of Ilum after ACT III of every class.

His annihilation of an entire Dark Council happened with prep and is specifically stated by Drew to be something he can't do normally. Not that this would help Vitiate even if it was true.

Defeating Revan Reborn isn't a greater showing than his wrecking of Master Luke Skywalker which we know he can do with or without Kyp. Better yet, we also know that Exar Kun is more powerful than even BFC!Luke who is rebuilding a citadel with the Force more than once for the fun of it. A telekinetic feat simply beyond anything we've seen from anyone in the entire KotOR/SWTOR era. And we know that Kueller is feeding off of the deaths of millions of people before he's even approaching Exar Kun in power.

His outright domination of Kyp to the point where Kyp is literally forced into hate and anger rather casually whilst Kun is simultaneously choking out the entire rest of the academy from across the galaxy.

Better yet, the Sith that preceded Exar Kun are likely comparable. If you want to go a fun little line of logic we know that Tulak Hord devoured the spirits of at least a thousand Jedi Knights, an empowerment much stronger and more thorough than the one Darth Nox gained when binding Sith spirits. And this would cause an enormous gap between Hord and his distant rival Kallig, who in a spiritual form that had been constantly drained of its power for a millennia by Vitiate easily scales up to Act I Darth Nox. Going backwards up that chain, prior to Vitiate's thousand years of drain, means prime Lord Kallig must be close to SoR Nox. Then factor in Hord's devouring of spirits which would be a magnitude of power in and of itself before Hord is even in his prime. Yet Marka Ragnos was more powerful than Hord, nevermind Exar Kun himself.

I created this thread on a basis of exploring just how unremarkable Vitiate actually is compared to his rivals from the past. And he doesn't measure up to Kun at all until the game.

I created this thread on a basis of exploring just how unremarkable Vitiate actually is compared to his rivals from the past. And he doesn't measure up to Kun at all until the game.

I figured that was what you were doing. I just wanted to understand your reasoning. Will be taking a look into some of the Kun feats, btw. Pretty impressive.

A pure feats comparison without the use of the Malak quote or other supremacy accolades favours Kun honestly. Vitiate has a lot of hype but his only real accomplishment as of the novel is overpowering Revan, who's scaling is comparably unimpressive when contrasted with Kun's (At least as of this point).

In before I get jumped by the Revanites.

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:A pure feats comparison without the use of the Malak quote or other supremacy accolades favours Kun honestly. Vitiate has a lot of hype but his only real accomplishment as of the novel is overpowering Revan, who's scaling is comparably unimpressive when contrasted with Kun's (At least as of this point).

In before I get jumped by the Revanites.

Even as a Revanite, I'm definitely inclined to agree. While Skillz makes a good case for Malak being ahead sans the quote (Revan had more potential and more time to complete said potential + probably more knowledge and Malak >), in a pure feats comparison, Kun steamrolls. His esoteric abilities, as well as absurd raw power definitely clinch him this win. Vitiate's best scaling at this stage is from the Exiles via Revan, but Kun receives a similar scaling, and many better ones too.

I'm not inclined to agree.

NotAA3 wrote:I'm not inclined to agree.

Reasoning?

IG wrote:(Revan had more potential and more time to complete said potential + probably more knowledge and Malak >)

1.That Vrook Lamar based quote only actually means that Darth Revan with a memory block is > Padawan Kun. There's no argument for Revan having greater potential.

2.Exar Kun was actively a Sith for five years with knowledge that actively boosted the speed of his power growth.

3.Exar Kun instantly absorbed the full knowledge of Freedon Nadd(Which took Bane months or years to comprehend), took in the full knowledge of Naga Sadow, had knowledge that when revealed to TCW Anakin Skywalker made Anakin too powerful, had the full knowledge of the most powerful Sith holocron in the mythos and attains the most precious knowledge of the chamber of antiquities of the Great Jedi Library on Ossus. All of which is impossible for Darth/KotOR Revan to know and remained indefensible to Master Luke whose knowledge was insane even as of JA. At best, this is debatable.

So I wouldn't take that argument as solid, no offense meant to Skillz. Even with the Malak quote, both Kun and Nadd have new, more recent quotes that cast doubt on its reliability.

Kun wins here and I'm struggling to find any angle from which to argue Vitiate at this stage is comparable to Kun.

Vitiate godstomps

The God Emperor wrote:Vitiate godstomps

Why?

Seturna wrote:

The God Emperor wrote:Vitiate godstomps

Why?

He nearly killed Revan Reborn who is more powerful than version of Revan who killed Malak who was far above Kun.

You do realize this thread ignores the Malak > Kun quote, right?

ScionOfSkywalker77 wrote:A pure feats comparison without the use of the Malak quote or other supremacy accolades favours Kun honestly. Vitiate has a lot of hype but his only real accomplishment as of the novel is overpowering Revan, who's scaling is comparably unimpressive when contrasted with Kun's (At least as of this point).

In before I get jumped by the Revanites.

Honestly, with AP's reasoning I agree. Novel Vitiate is fairly meh in terms of feats.

LadyKulvax wrote:His annihilation of an entire Dark Council happened with prep and is specifically stated by Drew to be something he can't do normally. Not that this would help Vitiate even if it was true.

Well, it's a good thing Drew Karpyshyn isn't the author of Vitiate's feat against the Dark Council.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Lokess
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic_Encyclopedia

I'm referring to the murder of the Dark Council in Revan which Drew did write and provides a precedent for repeat actions of that sort.