RotJ Luke vs Inferno Luke

Rage Luke as of RotJ against Vader

Rage Luke as of Inferno against Caedus

Who wins?

Blitzing Inferno Caedus >>> stomping Vader.

Considering Rage Luke ~ Prime Caedus, it’s safe to say that he takes this easily.

luke for inferno absolutely destroys him

Mid-DE Luke using the dark side was Sheev's greatest adversary, at this point he's above the likes of Yoda, Windu, KFV. Inferno Luke was in a "battle rage" that he could only have been snapped out of by seeing Ben falling to the dark side, wanting to kill Caedus. Moreover, as of TUF, Luke saw the Force in a new light, and had no reservations about expressing his full raw power in combat - he saw the dark side as an aspect of the Force rather than inherently corruptive. He was even able to utilise Emerald Lightning (Lightning being an ability right on the precipice of the dark side for anyone barring an extremely skilled Jedi Master), and his use of the cells-bursting super saiyan power he used on the dovin basal and Jade Shadow was directly likened to Sidious' raw power destroying his body.

So yeah... Inferno is better than mid-DE who is better than Yoda... so he absolutely annihilates RotJ Luke.

@ILS: Citations needed.

EmperorCaedus wrote:@ILS: Citations needed.

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t1481p125-top-fifteen-tournament-5-anakin-skywalker-darth-krayt#29384

All in there and the following page. It's quite a bit of reading though.

ILS wrote:

EmperorCaedus wrote:@ILS: Citations needed.

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t1481p125-top-fifteen-tournament-5-anakin-skywalker-darth-krayt#29384

All in there and the following page. It's quite a bit of reading though.

I may be mistaken, but you are being sarcastic with those points right? I thought you and Ziggy were both fond of tag teaming Caedus and stripping him of his Luke feat no?

ILS wrote:

EmperorCaedus wrote:@ILS: Citations needed.

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t1481p125-top-fifteen-tournament-5-anakin-skywalker-darth-krayt#29384

All in there and the following page. It's quite a bit of reading though.

Not looking to get into an extended argument, but not sure I'd use the "greatest adversary" quote to say mid-DE Luke > Yoda/Mace/KFV since it's in-universe and seemingly time-locked per the rest of the quote. Bear in mind that if we use this, then other quotes like Valkorion calling the HoT his "most powerful adversary" would mean SoR Revan < SoR HoT, which we know isn't true:

Valkorion has lived for millennia, using his dark mastery of the Force to assume many forms. His latest incarnation is Valkorion, the Immortal Emperor of the Eternal Empire. After ruling for centuries, he was struck down in an act of treachery engineered by his son, Arcann. But the Immortal Emperor could not be vanquished so easily. He evaded death by infiltrating the mind of the Outlander, his most powerful opponent. He now appears to the Outlander as an apparition, offering guidance and harsh lessons while carrying out a master plan that remains shrouded in secrecy.
From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: Official Profile)

Isv wrote:

ILS wrote:

EmperorCaedus wrote:@ILS: Citations needed.

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t1481p125-top-fifteen-tournament-5-anakin-skywalker-darth-krayt#29384

All in there and the following page. It's quite a bit of reading though.

I may be mistaken, but you are being sarcastic with those points right? I thought you and Ziggy were both fond of tag teaming Caedus and stripping him of his Luke feat no?

I go back and forth on the extent to which Caedus can receive credit for surviving, but my current thinking is he seriously punches above his weight class through sheer grit, creativity and quick thinking, and also that Luke is pretty much always, at least, in excess of Yoda or his DE self as a duelist apart from in the rarest circumstances. So there's something to be said for Caedus not being instantly skullfucked, but his fight with Luke is so circumstantial it's hard to really gauge anything specific.

BoD wrote:

ILS wrote:

EmperorCaedus wrote:@ILS: Citations needed.

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t1481p125-top-fifteen-tournament-5-anakin-skywalker-darth-krayt#29384

All in there and the following page. It's quite a bit of reading though.

Not looking to get into an extended argument, but not sure I'd use the "greatest adversary" quote to say mid-DE Luke > Yoda/Mace/KFV since it's in-universe and seemingly time-locked per the rest of the quote. Bear in mind that if we use this, then other quotes like Valkorion calling the HoT his "most powerful adversary" would mean SoR Revan < SoR HoT, which we know isn't true:

Valkorion has lived for millennia, using his dark mastery of the Force to assume many forms. His latest incarnation is Valkorion, the Immortal Emperor of the Eternal Empire. After ruling for centuries, he was struck down in an act of treachery engineered by his son, Arcann. But the Immortal Emperor could not be vanquished so easily. He evaded death by infiltrating the mind of the Outlander, his most powerful opponent. He now appears to the Outlander as an apparition, offering guidance and harsh lessons while carrying out a master plan that remains shrouded in secrecy.
From (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Knights of the Eternal Throne: Official Profile)

Could be a case where the Outlander is "more powerful" than Revan in the same sense Anakin is "more powerful" than Yoda, as in, not combatively. Hence why he wanted to hollow him out and forge him into a "supreme vessel" but not Revan. With the DE quote, it's directly in the context of a lightsaber duel, as I explain in that thread, so semantically "adversary" checks out as being related to lightsaber combat.

I don't really care in what sense the Outlander is a "more powerful opponent" than Revan, although that always seemed preordained seeing as Scourge foresaw the HoT kicking Vitiate's ass centuries in advance, leading to him betraying Revan.

Could be a case where the Outlander is "more powerful" than Revan in the same sense Anakin is "more powerful" than Yoda, as in, not combatively. Hence why he wanted to hollow him out and forge him into a "supreme vessel" but not Revan. With the DE quote, it's directly in the context of a lightsaber duel, as I explain in that thread, so semantically "adversary" checks out as being related to lightsaber combat.

Right, but I'm not sure the quote is an "all time" accolade and more just in the period of the OT/post-OT era. 

I don't really care in what sense the Outlander is a "more powerful opponent" than Revan, although that always seemed preordained seeing as Scourge foresaw the HoT kicking Vitiate's ass centuries in advance, leading to him betraying Revan.

I'm one of the people who thinks Valkorion was basically tricking the Outlander when he said about increasing his potential and just felt he had to force the Outlander to go through new training to grow stronger, so you won't get any arguments from me.

Your contrivancies are quite, how do you say... contrived?

Hmm yes, very contriving attempt BoD, but ultimately fruitless.
But now YOU know better.

Quorian Debatist wrote:Your contrivancies are quite, how do you say... contrived?

Hmm yes, very contriving attempt BoD, but ultimately fruitless.
But now YOU know better.

You okay, hun?

Injured Inferno Luke 3 shotting an amped, post boost-Caedus vs ROTJ Luke needing nearly a minute to wear Vader down. Hmmmmmmm... I wonder? Yeah, the ROTJ version gets hammered and ragdolled.

Inferno Luke ragdolled Caedus. Enraged ROTJ Luke was an equal of ROTJ Vader and only fully overcame him in a short fight when he got a Zonakin style amp. Unless he has that Zonakin amp, Inferno Luke smacks.

@BoD Actually, base ROTJ Luke is with Vader, and there’s no evidence that Zonakin was an amp, as that state was borne of a realization, one he doesn’t lose afterwards.

IG wrote:@BoD Actually, base ROTJ Luke is with Vader, and there’s no evidence that Zonakin was an amp, as that state was borne of a realization, one he doesn’t lose afterwards.

try that argument with me PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE. I am begging, make the error of trying that in our debate

Be my guest.

@BoD You do realise that we have quotes that put Luke and Vader as equals, both sabers and force wise, without factoring in the emotional context at play during the fight (ie the rage amp) so even if you wish to quibble over the details of the fight (Which btw, also put Vader and ROTJ Luke as equals at base) you win squat, and the two are still equal?

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@BoD You do realise that we have quotes that put Luke and Vader as equals, both sabers and force wise, without factoring in the emotional context at play during the fight (ie the rage amp) so even if you wish to quibble over the details of the fight (Which btw, also put Vader and ROTJ Luke as equals at base) you win squat, and the two are still equal?

Post them please, buddy old pal, old friend

Isv wrote:

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:@BoD You do realise that we have quotes that put Luke and Vader as equals, both sabers and force wise, without factoring in the emotional context at play during the fight (ie the rage amp) so even if you wish to quibble over the details of the fight (Which btw, also put Vader and ROTJ Luke as equals at base) you win squat, and the two are still equal?

Post them please, buddy old pal, old friend

Check SF3 imo.

Will respond to both of you tomorrow or Wednesday.

Leaning Rage! Luke