Darth Bane and Zannah vs ROTJ Vader and ROTJ Luke

Standard rules

It can go either way. If I had to choose I will bet on Zannah and Bane because of the madness spells of Zannah.

Backing team 2 decisively unless Zannah has a chance to use her spells.

If Zannah finds an opening to use her spells, team 1 wins decisively. But both Vader and Luke tend to be extremely aggressive duelists at this point in time. I doubt they would give her the breathing room necessary.

backing team 2

Team 1

ROTJ Luke is a bit of a weak link so I will say team 1

SithSauce wrote:ROTJ Luke is a bit of a weak link so I will say team 1

How is he a weak link when he's equal to the other member of his team?

@NotAA3 Because I'm unconvinced that Vader wasn't conflicted during his duel against Luke when the movie itself states that he was

@SithSauce

Because I'm unconvinced that Vader wasn't conflicted during his duel against Luke when the movie itself states that he is.

My rebuttal to this is threefold:

-Many sources clarify Vader was trying his hardest to overwhelm Luke and used his full power - he "brought his full strength and power against the younger man" (ROTJ Comic), "wanted revenge" for Luke humiliating him (ROTJ Novel), experienced "bald anger" at Luke (ROTJ Novel), etc - regardless of any inner conflict he may have had it clearly didn't affect his sure mindset in the fight.

-You highlight Vader's conflict in the duel, yet act like Luke had none of his own. While holding back, and saying he doesn't want to fight Vader, he stonewalls him to the point where Vader is breathing hard from trying to breach his guard.

-Some quotes highlighting their equality are clearly exempt from the context of the duel. Take these two:

Beware of the Sith wrote:Although Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are equally strong in the Force, their duels are more than just about physical strength.

Jedi Battles wrote:Father and son were now equally strong with the Force and equally skilled with their lightsabers. But this battle was more than just physical strength and Force powers.

Refer to the blue text in both. It clearly distinguishes their equality from the emotional context of the fight stating the battle is about "more than physical strength" after it highlights their physical equality. The quotes recognize the emotional context of the duel, and still state Luke has equality anyway. There is absolutely no reason to doubt them, and they're as concrete as it gets.

NotAA3 wrote:@SithSauce

Because I'm unconvinced that Vader wasn't conflicted during his duel against Luke when the movie itself states that he is.

My rebuttal to this is threefold:

-Many sources clarify Vader was trying his hardest to overwhelm Luke and used his full power - he "brought his full strength and power against the younger man" (ROTJ Comic), "wanted revenge" for Luke humiliating him (ROTJ Novel), experienced "bald anger" at Luke (ROTJ Novel), etc - regardless of any inner conflict he may have had it clearly didn't affect his sure mindset in the fight.

-You highlight Vader's conflict in the duel, yet act like Luke had none of his own. While holding back, and saying he doesn't want to fight Vader, he stonewalls him to the point where Vader is breathing hard from trying to breach his guard.

-Some quotes highlighting their equality are clearly exempt from the context of the duel. Take these two:

Beware of the Sith wrote:Although Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are equally strong in the Force, their duels are more than just about physical strength.

Jedi Battles wrote:Father and son were now equally strong with the Force and equally skilled with their lightsabers. But this battle was more than just physical strength and Force powers.

Refer to the blue text in both. It clearly distinguishes their equality from the emotional context of the fight stating the battle is about "more than physical strength" after it highlights their physical equality. The quotes recognize the emotional context of the duel, and still state Luke has equality anyway. There is absolutely no reason to doubt them, and they're as concrete as it gets.

nice post

NotAA3 wrote:@SithSauce

Because I'm unconvinced that Vader wasn't conflicted during his duel against Luke when the movie itself states that he is.

My rebuttal to this is threefold:

-Many sources clarify Vader was trying his hardest to overwhelm Luke and used his full power - he "brought his full strength and power against the younger man" (ROTJ Comic), "wanted revenge" for Luke humiliating him (ROTJ Novel), experienced "bald anger" at Luke (ROTJ Novel), etc - regardless of any inner conflict he may have had it clearly didn't affect his sure mindset in the fight.

-You highlight Vader's conflict in the duel, yet act like Luke had none of his own. While holding back, and saying he doesn't want to fight Vader, he stonewalls him to the point where Vader is breathing hard from trying to breach his guard.

-Some quotes highlighting their equality are clearly exempt from the context of the duel. Take these two:

Beware of the Sith wrote:Although Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker are equally strong in the Force, their duels are more than just about physical strength.

Jedi Battles wrote:Father and son were now equally strong with the Force and equally skilled with their lightsabers. But this battle was more than just physical strength and Force powers.

Refer to the blue text in both. It clearly distinguishes their equality from the emotional context of the fight stating the battle is about "more than physical strength" after it highlights their physical equality. The quotes recognize the emotional context of the duel, and still state Luke has equality anyway. There is absolutely no reason to doubt them, and they're as concrete as it gets.

Great post! I've been arguing this for years, but you summed it up better than I've been able to.

@NotAA3 Will get back to you later

Team 2 although Zannah's a wild card with her sorcery

Your out of the cult hp

TPM Kenobi

SithSauce wrote:ROTJ Luke is a bit of a weak link so I will say team 1

ROTJ Luke => Vader 

Darth Zannah's sorcery seals the deal. Team 1 wins.

King Joker wrote:Darth Zannah's sorcery seals the deal. Team 1 wins.

I sincerely doubt either vader or luke Will give her time to do that.

The lord of hunger wrote:

King Joker wrote:Darth Zannah's sorcery seals the deal. Team 1 wins.

I sincerely doubt either vader or luke Will give her time to do that.

Neither Vader or Luke is aware of Zannah's abilities and thus won't feel compelled to press a rabid offensive from the outset in order to prevent Zannah from unleashing her spells (spells that she could cast out at the very start of the duel or whenever there's a brief pause in an offensive—the latter happening at least once in almost every duel in Star Wars).

KingofBlades wrote:Team 2 although Zannah's a wild card with her sorcery

How weak do you think Bane and Zannah actually are?

King Joker wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:

King Joker wrote:Darth Zannah's sorcery seals the deal. Team 1 wins.

I sincerely doubt either vader or luke Will give her time to do that.

Neither Vader or Luke is aware of Zannah's abilities and thus won't feel compelled to press a rabid offensive from the outset in order to prevent Zannah from unleashing her spells (spells that she could cast out at the very start of the duel or whenever there's a brief pause in an offensive—the latter happening at least once in almost every duel in Star Wars).

Well it could go in two ways tbh vader acting like the monster machine he is and Luke acting more carefully during the fight or either of them getting trapped by the sith spell any chance is validable

<3

Azronger wrote:

KingofBlades wrote:Team 2 although Zannah's a wild card with her sorcery

How weak do you think Bane and Zannah actually are?

What do you mean? @Azronger