Re: Darth Vader vs Marka Ragnos

March 5th 2020, 11:39 pm

The lord of hunger wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:Marka Ragnos still wins, easier than I last thought to be honest. Ragnos in his prime is gonna dwarf his spiritual form and that easily makes up for the other, far inferior spirits with him in the Sith Council when he cowed Sidious so badly that Sidious needed a bacta tank to recover from the severity of the injuries.

Spamming meme emotes doesn't make your laughable claim of a mismatch any less comical.

Ragnos' spirit with some buddies (Kun, Sadow, Nadd, etc are all either dead permanently or elsewhere) legitimately nearly killed Sidious per Sidious himself. Ragnos himself is far more powerful in life than death. If his spirit with fodder back-up on a weaksauce Empire-era Korriban is a lethal threat to Sheev, Vader starts wheezing against the prime Dark Lord.

Let me not even get started on NJO wank.

March 5th 2020, 11:42 pm

Citations needed for this rubbish

March 5th 2020, 11:51 pm

Lmao, this is kek-worthy.

Darth Vader vs Marka Ragnos - Page 2 Zd51rpk

Darth Vader vs Marka Ragnos - Page 2 2017-10-29

Ragnos wrecks.

March 6th 2020, 12:05 am

LadyKulvax wrote:Ragnos in his prime is gonna dwarf his spiritual form and that easily makes up for the other, far inferior spirits with him in the Sith Council

You haven't established how inferior these other spirits are

when he cowed Sidious so badly that Sidious needed a bacta tank to recover from the severity of the injuries.

Not sure how this establishes anything

Luke Skywalker was put into a bacta tank for a week to recover from his injuries from facing Caedus in Inferno, in which the ladder was nearly curbed.

So Ragnos has a very ambiguous feat that really doesn't mean anything

March 6th 2020, 12:09 am

They're not even named and there are no notable spirits left that could've joined him. As I elaborated upon above.

Literally nothing you just said disproves the point. Sidious is a consummate master of various healing arts at this point, there's no reason he wouldn't heal himself if he could've. Sidious himself says he nearly died.

Vader's fvcked.

March 6th 2020, 12:22 am

LadyKulvax wrote:They're not even named and there are no notable spirits left that could've joined him. As I elaborated upon above.

You ignored my question, you haven't quantified how less these Sith Lords are compared to Ragnos. The Sith being nameless doesn't mean anything, they could've been helping immensely for all I know.

Literally nothing you just said disproves the point. Sidious is a consummate master of various healing arts at this point, there's no reason he wouldn't heal himself if he could've. Sidious himself says he nearly died.

As you very well know, fights can be very circumstantial. Sidious claiming he "nearly died"
doesn't mean jack until you can prove that this isn't a circumstantial fight. Again, take Luke vs Caedus in which the ladder was practically stomped and Luke almost died to the injuries he sustained and had to go in a bacta tank, the same things you claim Sidious has done.

You can't quantify this purposefully ambiguous feat until you prove the way in which Ragnos and his goons "nearly killed" Sidious.

March 6th 2020, 12:27 am

Anyways, Vader destroys this featless trash

March 6th 2020, 12:32 am

EmperorCaedus wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:They're not even named and there are no notable spirits left that could've joined him. As I elaborated upon above.

You ignored my question, you haven't quantified how less these Sith Lords are compared to Ragnos. The Sith being nameless doesn't mean anything, they could've been helping immensely for all I know.

I ignored nothing. They're nameless spirits. Marka Ragnos is the second most powerful Sith until Kun, the likes of Hord, Nadd are inferior, well beneath them are the likes of Sadow and Kressh. Ragnos is the only Sith of note and scales massively above them all.

Literally nothing you just said disproves the point. Sidious is a consummate master of various healing arts at this point, there's no reason he wouldn't heal himself if he could've. Sidious himself says he nearly died.

As you very well know, fights can be very circumstantial. Sidious claiming he "nearly died"
doesn't mean jack until you can prove that this isn't a circumstantial fight. Again, take Luke vs Caedus in which the ladder was practically stomped and Luke almost died to the injuries he sustained and had to go in a bacta tank, the same things you claim Sidious has done.

You can't quantify this purposefully ambiguous feat until you prove the way in which Ragnos and his goons "nearly killed" Sidious.

You're appealing to ambiguity and acting as if this dismisses the feat. It doesn't. Ragnos and the others nearly killed Sheev and they intimidated him into making him do what they want:

cow

verb

past tense: cowed; past participle: cowed

cause (someone) to submit to one's wishes by intimidation.

Sheev got bullied, beaten and nearly died.

March 6th 2020, 12:48 am

wow, EC defending Vader. Im proud of u, young man.

March 6th 2020, 1:08 am

The most important scan didn't load for me so I was operating under the assumption that all Sidious said was "they nearly killed me".

There are probably still things wrong with your conclusion but CBA

March 6th 2020, 1:19 am

Oh good grief...

Vader stomps.

March 6th 2020, 1:22 am

Amazing argument, for you that is. About par for your course.

March 6th 2020, 1:30 am

Your basis for Ragnos winning - let alone stomping - rests on a contextual showing, where Sidious was ambushed by several spirits, not just Ragnos. All you have is the combined powers of countless spirits on Korriban heavily injuring post-ROTS Sidious. How does this tailor to Ragnos, especially since fighting even a single spirit is difficult considering their intangible nature and Sidious was fighting them (use of plurals)?

Also, my post wasn't addressed to you. Sorry if it seemed that way.

March 6th 2020, 1:34 am

Literally nothing says Sheev was ambushed, Sheev after the Death Star battle confronted the Sith Council led by Marka Ragnos on Korriban and demanded their knowledge. Enraged by this, the spirits intimidated Sheev into doing what they wanted and injured him so severely he required rescuing and recovery in a bacta tank.

ANH Sidious dwarfs Vader, who gets wrecked.

March 6th 2020, 1:40 am

So again, countless Sith attacked Sheev and wounded him. Likewise, fighting back would have been difficult considering their nature as intangible spirits, making fighting them harder. So again; how do the combined efforts of several intangible spirits within their tombs (where their power would be strongest) suddenly transition over to Ragnos? Are there even any suggestions Ragnos was primarily responsible?

March 6th 2020, 2:27 am

Is there any evidence that Sheev ever learned how to kill a spirit, anyway?

In JA it was made clear that none of the students even knew how to affect or defend against one, and nothing Luke knew could help him. That's despite the fact he had been fully trained as a Sith Lord by Sidious and knew all of the secrets he taught Vader.

There's also the quote about how Kun's "secrets" died with him, and also, Luceno deliberately bifurcated Plagueis from the ancient Sith by having Gravid destroy some of the ancient knowledge, including the likes of essence transfer, which he stated.

So it seems odd to use this whole "and he totally kicked his ass as a weakened spirit!" When it seems obvious that despite being weakened, spirits actually have an advantage if you don't know how to kill them. Kun seemed to need the amulet blasts to affect spirits, who were especially vulnerable to that kind of attack.

Just a thought.

March 6th 2020, 2:33 am

Ragnos is on Korriban both before and after Sheev travels there. He appears to Plagueis there, he is supposed to be resurrected there afterwards too. Marka Ragnos is further confirmed to be the leader of a spiritual Sith Council in TOTJ which Palpatine talks to in Dark Empire prior to the ancients being fleshed out at all, the TOTJ makes it clear that these spirits included Ragnos. It's the same group of spirits in the same place on Korriban every time:

Dark Empire:
Darth Vader vs Marka Ragnos - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRzkwxrKZZoXS0f3-z0zsOIP8k5dsOaijUN8fh7EVA06oASVNqG

Darth Vader vs Marka Ragnos - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRzkwxrKZZoXS0f3-z0zsOIP8k5dsOaijUN8fh7EVA06oASVNqG

Tales of the Jedi:
Darth Vader vs Marka Ragnos - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTUheB_4LT7ZvFuMmEL81aWRNHePK1A1IMfEpZsTGIGSypBWDtF

Darth Vader vs Marka Ragnos - Page 2 Images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTbMCE5TlWWTFF7SYKm1CmmbThCu0C_LF-Q2iUiTvZNlHAiTiVI

Ragnos is among them:

Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:Their battle might have gone on for hours but for the macabre manifestation of a host of Sith spirits, led by the shade of Marka Ragnos.

And no, spirits are not impervious. They've been whacked thrice in lore, at least, by mortal Force-users. There's no reason Sheev Palpatine who you all claim is the most knowledgable, encyclopedic Force master ever wouldn't know how to defend himself. That's a massive cop-out.

March 6th 2020, 4:54 am

And no, spirits are not impervious. They've been whacked thrice in lore, at least, by mortal Force-users. There's no reason Sheev Palpatine who you all claim is the most knowledgable, encyclopedic Force master ever wouldn't know how to defend himself. That's a massive cop-out.

You can be the most knowledgeable Sith/Force user of all time and not know something. Harming spirits is an incredibly rare technique, even by the Cold War period. Nox and Zash for example only knew rumours about the Tulak Hord technique, and there's no evidence Nox passed on the knowledge for this ritual afterwards. It's suggested in Empire's End that the spirits aren't threatened by Sidious, indicating that no, he doesn't quite know how to harm them. Maybe he can harm them through ritualistic techniques like Nox did, but not through direct, combative means.

March 6th 2020, 5:33 am

So Sheev, who has studied every aspect of Jedi knowledge, doesn't know about Force Light? Good to know. I mean, we know he does. But let's ignore that.

March 6th 2020, 5:35 am

I wonder if JA Luke knew Force Light

March 6th 2020, 5:37 am

You're expecting a manifestation of dark side energy to use a technique that involves focusing the Force into blasts of pure light side energy while on an incredibly powerful dark side nexus?

March 6th 2020, 6:05 am

ILS wrote:I wonder if JA Luke knew Force Light

They all learn to use it to kill him in the middle of CotF.

March 6th 2020, 6:05 am

BoD wrote:You're expecting a manifestation of dark side energy to use a technique that involves focusing the Force into blasts of pure light side energy while on an incredibly powerful dark side nexus?

There are dark siders who use light side techniques all the time...

March 6th 2020, 6:13 am

LadyKulvax wrote:

ILS wrote:I wonder if JA Luke knew Force Light

They all learn to use it to kill him in the middle of CotF.

Luke? Citation?

March 6th 2020, 6:36 am

It's the scene where they encircle him, looking for the quote though. Luke joins in.