Palpatine runs the Masters of the Dark Side gauntlet

In a hypothetical scenario, Palpatine succeeds in slaying the Skywalker family and destroying the vestiges of the New Republic during the events of Dark Empire. Believing he has achieved what no Sith before him has, he opens hyperspace wormholes to disparate spots in the galaxy's history to test his mettle against other preeminent masters of the dark side and to prove his supposition correct. All his competitors fall before his might individually, but soon after form coalitions in a bid to take down the dreaded Dark Emperor once and for all.

Round I: Exar Kun and Darth Nihilus

Round II: Darth Caedus and Darish Vol

Round III: Darth Tenebrous and Darth Plagueis

Round IV: Darth Nihilus, Valkorion, and Soa

Round V: Darish Vol, Darth Krayt, and UnuThul

Round VI: Valkorion, Darth Plagueis, Darth Vader (pre-suit), and Darth Krayt

Exar kun solos 

Might stop R1, hard stop R2.

Stops at VI. Team is simply too much.

Jacen wrote:Might stop R1, hard stop R2.

Intriguing. I know you champion the idea of Caedus scaling off of TUF Luke so I won't inquire there, but I am curious as to why'd he'd stop at the first round.

HellfireUnit wrote:Stops at VI. Team is simply too much.

What are Palpatine's exact limits in combat in your mind, and how is he able to overcome the teams of three but not the squadron of four?

Azronger wrote:

Jacen wrote:Might stop R1, hard stop R2.

Intriguing. I know you champion the idea of Caedus scaling off of TUF Luke so I won't inquire there, but I am curious as to why'd he'd stop at the first round.

Depends if Exar Kun is his base TOTJ iteration or JA.

If this is TOTJ Kun, then Sheev wins R1 pretty easily. If this is JA Kun-Kyp, then I can see the duo winning. Though I'd probably still go with Sheev for R1.

JA Kun can only function through proxies or on strong dark side sites as he does not have a physical body. If another person like Kyp were assisting him, I would have included him in the team.

So what iteration of Kun is it?

I think 4 or 6.

Krayt solos by round 5

Azronger wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Stops at VI. Team is simply too much.

What are Palpatine's exact limits in combat in your mind, and how is he able to overcome the teams of three but not the squadron of four?

Well, I consider Palpatine to be excellent in combat and his power in the Force far surpasses anyone on the list. About the gauntlet:

Round IV: Darth Nihilus, Valkorion, and Soa - Palpatine already outclasses his opponents when it comes to Force Powers and knowledge. In addition, his combat skills are unmatched. Trio's unique Force abilities won't come into play. Nihilus is worthless, he would die faster than Fisto. Soa had already been defeated by a lame strike team IIRC. Valkorion is just a watered down Palpatine without skill.

Round V: Darish Vol, Darth Krayt, and UnuThul - This team is capable of pushing Palpatine, Krayt with the assistance of UnuThul and Vol can keep up with him. However Vol and Thul's combat skill is nowhere near Palpatine and I do believe Palpatine can exploit these weakness and defeat both UnuThul and Vol. Unless Vol can TP Palpatine as he did against Abeloth, they'd lose IMO, which seems unlikely since Palpatine's mind isn't as fragile as Abeloth's and he is extremely intelligent.

Round VI: Valkorion, Darth Plagueis, Darth Vader (pre-suit), and Darth Krayt - Too much hax and combat power. Krayt and Vader would already press him in combat and with the assistance of Plagueis and Valkorion, they'd beat Palpatine.

Round I: Sidious stomps.

Round II: Idk. Palpatine probably wins due to Force storm.

Round III: Sidious is much more powerful than Plagueis, and I doubt that MM will give Hego any advantage. Tenebrus will not have much impact on the battle.

Round IV: Sidious can handle it without much trouble.

Round V: Team, if Sidious cannot destroy them with a storm.

Round VI: The same as in the fifth round.

Jacen wrote:So what iteration of Kun is it?

TotJ, obviously.

Isv wrote:Krayt solos by round 5

I'm assuming this is a troll post, but I'm aware some here do genuinely hold Krayt above the Emperor given the perceived Krayt = Luke > Sidious scale, so I'll give you the opportunity to confirm or deny this line of thought.

HellfireUnit wrote:Well, I consider Palpatine to be excellent in combat and his power in the Force far surpasses anyone on the list. About the gauntlet:

Round IV: Darth Nihilus, Valkorion, and Soa - Palpatine already outclasses his opponents when it comes to Force Powers and knowledge. In addition, his combat skills are unmatched. Trio's unique Force abilities won't come into play. Nihilus is worthless, he would die faster than Fisto. Soa had already been defeated by a lame strike team IIRC. Valkorion is just a watered down Palpatine without skill.

Why would the trio's unique Force abilities not come into play? Nihilus's corrosive aura is passive and he becomes more powerful simply by being in the proximity of those strong in the Force - I imagine the effect would be exponential given his opposition. And while I don't doubt he could stand against the Emperor individually given his substantially inferior combat skill, he has two others to cover for him here as they all pelt the Emperor with Force attacks.

Round V: Darish Vol, Darth Krayt, and UnuThul - This team is capable of pushing Palpatine, Krayt with the assistance of UnuThul and Vol can keep up with him. However Vol and Thul's combat skill is nowhere near Palpatine and I do believe Palpatine can exploit these weakness and defeat both UnuThul and Vol. Unless Vol can TP Palpatine as he did against Abeloth, they'd lose IMO, which seems unlikely since Palpatine's mind isn't as fragile as Abeloth's and he is extremely intelligent.

And if Vol were to TP the Emperor, would he just shrug it off? Or would it be an effective distraction for someone like Krayt - someone with the skill and power to match and exceed the RotS titans - to press his advantage? I recall UnuThul being quite the advanced telepath himself, too.

Round VI: Valkorion, Darth Plagueis, Darth Vader (pre-suit), and Darth Krayt - Too much hax and combat power. Krayt and Vader would already press him in combat and with the assistance of Plagueis and Valkorion, they'd beat Palpatine.

Why would Krayt and Vader be able to press him in combat beyond lightsaber dueling which Palpatine can cease at any moment to opt for his Force abilities? Would the team defeat the Emperor in a pure wizarding bout?

Shioz wrote:Round I: Sidious stomps.

Round II: Idk. Palpatine probably wins due to Force storm.

Round III: Sidious is much more powerful than Plagueis, and I doubt that MM will give Hego any advantage. Tenebrus will not have much impact on the battle.

Round IV: Sidious can handle it without much trouble.

Round V: Team, if Sidious cannot destroy them with a storm.

Round VI: The same as in the fifth round.

You seem to believe Caedus and Vol would present a greater challenge than Tenebrous and Plagueis, and the Old Republic team. I'm curious to hear your opinion why?

Regarding the latter two rounds, what are the odds of Palpatine getting off a successful Force storm, in your opinion?

BoD wrote:I think 4 or 6.

Why?

Azronger wrote:In a hypothetical scenario, Palpatine succeeds in slaying the Skywalker family and destroying the vestiges of the New Republic during the events of Dark Empire. Believing he has achieved what no Sith before him has, he opens hyperspace wormholes to disparate spots in the galaxy's history to test his mettle against other preeminent masters of the dark side and to prove his supposition correct. All his competitors fall before his might individually, but soon after form coalitions in a bid to take down the dreaded Dark Emperor once and for all.

Not a bad premise, over-all.

Azronger wrote:Round I: Exar Kun and Darth Nihilus.

Kun at most gives ESB a great fight and Nihilus being pretty far below Kun kinda leaves him out but the question is whether Nihilus bridges the gap between ESB Sheev and DE Sheev.

Azronger wrote:Round II: Darth Caedus and Darish Vol

Caedus is a pretty rough step down from the first team and doesn't perform well here besides getting in cheap shots or taking up a distracting role for Vol who can't cut it by himself.

Azronger wrote:Round III: Darth Tenebrous and Darth Plagueis.

Common sense says Sheev wins emphatically.

Azronger wrote:Round IV: Darth Nihilus, Valkorion, and Soa.

Neither Nihilus or Soa hold up on their own but them supporting Valkorion means they definitely win.

Azronger wrote:Round V: Darish Vol, Darth Krayt, and UnuThul

Yeah, I can see the team winning because he's incapable of focusing enough on one of them to kill them without leaving himself wide open for the other two.

Azronger wrote:Round VI: Valkorion, Darth Plagueis, Darth Vader (pre-suit), and Darth Krayt

[/quote]

He gets stomped.

Azronger wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:Well, I consider Palpatine to be excellent in combat and his power in the Force far surpasses anyone on the list. About the gauntlet:

Round IV: Darth Nihilus, Valkorion, and Soa - Palpatine already outclasses his opponents when it comes to Force Powers and knowledge. In addition, his combat skills are unmatched. Trio's unique Force abilities won't come into play. Nihilus is worthless, he would die faster than Fisto. Soa had already been defeated by a lame strike team IIRC. Valkorion is just a watered down Palpatine without skill.

Why would the trio's unique Force abilities not come into play? Nihilus's corrosive aura is passive and he becomes more powerful simply by being in the proximity of those strong in the Force - I imagine the effect would be exponential given his opposition. And while I don't doubt he could stand against the Emperor individually given his substantially inferior combat skill, he has two others to cover for him here as they all pelt the Emperor with Force attacks.

Round V: Darish Vol, Darth Krayt, and UnuThul - This team is capable of pushing Palpatine, Krayt with the assistance of UnuThul and Vol can keep up with him. However Vol and Thul's combat skill is nowhere near Palpatine and I do believe Palpatine can exploit these weakness and defeat both UnuThul and Vol. Unless Vol can TP Palpatine as he did against Abeloth, they'd lose IMO, which seems unlikely since Palpatine's mind isn't as fragile as Abeloth's and he is extremely intelligent.

And if Vol were to TP the Emperor, would he just shrug it off? Or would it be an effective distraction for someone like Krayt - someone with the skill and power to match and exceed the RotS titans - to press his advantage? I recall UnuThul being quite the advanced telepath himself, too.

Round VI: Valkorion, Darth Plagueis, Darth Vader (pre-suit), and Darth Krayt - Too much hax and combat power. Krayt and Vader would already press him in combat and with the assistance of Plagueis and Valkorion, they'd beat Palpatine.

Why would Krayt and Vader be able to press him in combat beyond lightsaber dueling which Palpatine can cease at any moment to opt for his Force abilities? Would the team defeat the Emperor in a pure wizarding bout?

I will make a detailed respond to express my thoughts.

Azronger wrote:

Isv wrote:Krayt solos by round 5

I'm assuming this is a troll post, but I'm aware some here do genuinely hold Krayt above the Emperor given the perceived Krayt = Luke > Sidious scale, so I'll give you the opportunity to confirm or deny this line of thought.

Well, I personally don't know where to hold Krayt right now. I think he doesn't get ragdolled, but not sure how he would deal with Force Storm

Azronger wrote:

Shioz wrote:Round I: Sidious stomps.

Round II: Idk. Palpatine probably wins due to Force storm.

Round III: Sidious is much more powerful than Plagueis, and I doubt that MM will give Hego any advantage. Tenebrus will not have much impact on the battle.

Round IV: Sidious can handle it without much trouble.

Round V: Team, if Sidious cannot destroy them with a storm.

Round VI: The same as in the fifth round.

You seem to believe Caedus and Vol would present a greater challenge than Tenebrous and Plagueis, and the Old Republic team. I'm curious to hear your opinion why?

Regarding the latter two rounds, what are the odds of Palpatine getting off a successful Force storm, in your opinion?

The TOR-team (except maybe Valk) scales well below TPM Sidious and, accordingly, below Plagueis.

My doubts about the 2nd round are that Abeloth said "Vol had much of the power of Skywalker", and in the context of what was happening, the meaning of her words was obviously in the proximity of the power of Vol to Luke. Given Caedus’s fights with Luke and amped Jaina, I’m sure he’s out of Sidious’s ragdoll range (although, tbh, it's still hard for me to rate the power of prime Sidious). Palpatine surpasses Vol and Caedus individually, but I'm not sure what his battle with their duet will look like. On the other hand, DE Sidious has a direct scaling far above Plagueis, and, I believe, Sheev will be able to resist MM, being aware of these tricks.

In theory, a Force storm would be a very useful ability in a duel, but since we have not enough examples of its use in battle, I’m not sure what will come of it. In case of successful use, I doubt that team members could protect themselves from the storm and, most likely, any of them would get one-shot.

Azronger wrote:

BoD wrote:I think 4 or 6.

Why?

For round 4, the presence of Valkorion is what turns this in the team's favour. He's the only sub-DE Sidious character here who can give Sheev a run for his money. Nihilus and Soa can't do much but Nihilus has his drain to weaken Sidious while he's fighting Valk, and I'm not sure Sidious would be able to defend against the full effects of the drain while simultaneously fighting Valkorion. Not sure, though.

R6 he stops because there are just too many powerhouses. Aside from Valk, you have KFV (a tier 9 - I think any of the ROTS titans can give DE Sidious a decent fight), Plagueis w/ MM, and Krayt (another potential tier 9). Sidious would be facing all of these people attacking him at once while one uses esoteric abilities and another fights with a plot convenient power boost. While he could beat everyone bar Valkorion pretty comfortably, together they're just too much.

Isv wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Isv wrote:Krayt solos by round 5

I'm assuming this is a troll post, but I'm aware some here do genuinely hold Krayt above the Emperor given the perceived Krayt = Luke > Sidious scale, so I'll give you the opportunity to confirm or deny this line of thought.

Well, I personally don't know where to hold Krayt right now. I think he doesn't get ragdolled, but not sure how he would deal with Force Storm

The old databank confirms Krayt's inferiority to Sidious in power.



"Modern times" obviously encompasses the latest point in the timeline i.e. the Legacy era. Also note how practically every sentence in the Databank is written in past tense ("Over a century later, during the time of Roan Fel's empire, Darth Krayt was in possession of Andeddu's Holocron") except that one ("He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times").



And while Krayt has preternatural healing abilities, he is not capable of increasing his midi-chlorian count like Plagueis did and Sidious did to his clones, so the amount of power he can channel without beginning to damage his body is inferior to the amount Sidious can, which is somewhat balanced out by the Emperor's clones being more susceptible to his dark side degradation, but I don't see that coming into play unless the battle drags out for unusually long.

That first trio probably one-shots Palpatine.