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Master AzrongerModerator
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 1st 2020, 8:25 am
Sidious one-shots via scaling
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SnowxElf
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 12:48 am
Sheev likely, Sidious was implied to be only grow stronger during his reign. Yoda was implied to be out of his prime and constantly growing weaker from several sources. If Sidious won the fight they had in ROTS (which sources allude too) it's unlikely that he will lose here.
Underachiever599
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 2:57 am
Your logic is a little faulty here.SnowxElf wrote:Sheev likely, Sidious was implied to be only grow stronger during his reign. Yoda was implied to be out of his prime and constantly growing weaker from several sources. If Sidious won the fight they had in ROTS (which sources allude too) it's unlikely that he will lose here.
First, Yoda and Sidious are treated as pretty much equals in RotS. A deleted scene from RotS even implies Yoda was actually the victor, but was forced to flee when reinforcements arrived. Either way, there's very, very little difference between them in RotS.
Now, by your logic, TPM Sheev should be weaker than RotS. Makes since, as like you said, he only grew stronger over time.
AotC Yoda should be stronger than RotS Yoda (even if only by the tiniest of margins), as like you said, he only grew weaker over time.
So we have a marginally stronger Yoda fighting against a weaker version of Sidious, compared to their RotS fight. Since they are often depicted as equals, with sources going back and forth on who actually won in RotS, then having a stronger Yoda and a weaker Sheev should mean Yoda takes this fight.
HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 4:02 am
Leaning towards Yoda but considering this quote, I am not really sure. Though it doesn't specifically refer to superiority to one other I guess.
Revenge of the Sith wrote:In that lightning-speared tornado of feet and fists and blades and bashing machines, his vision finally pierced the darkness that had clouded the Force. Finally, he saw the truth.
This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...
just—
didn't—
have it.
He'd never had it. He had lost before he started. He had lost before he was born.
BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 6:10 am
Either way. The quote above misses the context that Yoda was being hit by a way of despair as he realises that the Jedi had already lost because they'd failed to change and adapt. It wasn't necessarily an assessment of raw strength, just cunning and knowledge of their enemy:
"The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day.
The Sith had remade themselves."
"The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day.
The Sith had remade themselves."
KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 6:23 am
I'd like to point out that the idea that after 800 years of studying the force Yoda is only Ventress tier is very suspect. Not only that, we're supposed to believe he grows suddenly to being Sheev's equal in a matter of a few years. That flies in the face of common sense and intuition tbh.
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 6:28 am
If anything, it's more likely Yoda would have grown weaker over that period, not gotten stronger. Sidious grew in strength, and especially after Order 66 the balance would have been thrown into disarray.
- Master AzrongerModerator
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 6:41 am
KingofBlades wrote:I'd like to point out that the idea that after 800 years of studying the force Yoda is only Ventress tier is very suspect. Not only that, we're supposed to believe he grows suddenly to being Sheev's equal in a matter of a few years. That flies in the face of common sense and intuition tbh.
It's not suspect when it's outright stated. If you rely on "common sense and intuition" then you might as well stop debating altogether because by that standard anyone can dismiss whatever they want under the guise of it not making sense or some other convoluted reason. Appealing to incredulity is not only a logical fallacy, but it outright causes this hobby to collapse.
Accept AotC Yoda is Ventress-level, find a legitimate way to debunk that notion, or stop debating. These are your options.
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- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 7:11 am
So out of curiosity, you think AOTC Dooku >> TPM Yoda?
Latham2000Level Three
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 7:44 am
Tbf you could argue that the toy description of Anakin & Yoda vs Ventress got retconned by TCW because it predates what TCW shows us about Yoda vs Ventress.
- Master AzrongerModerator
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 8:27 am
TCW comes chronologically later, though, so you can reconcile them as Yoda simply growing.
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- Master AzrongerModerator
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 8:28 am
BoD wrote:So out of curiosity, you think AOTC Dooku >> TPM Yoda?
Not necessarily. I don't have conclusive proof for that.
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- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 8:30 am
Then I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. AOTC Dooku isn't necessarily >> TPM Yoda when Yoda is apparently Ventress level by virtue of Windu and Dooku >/>> Ventress. Wouldn't Sith Dooku, who is supposedly "infinitely" beyond a Jedi iteration of himself who was a peer of Yoda, be far above Yoda and Windu?
Also, are there sources suggesting that there was immense growth for the likes of Mace and Yoda post TPM?
Also, are there sources suggesting that there was immense growth for the likes of Mace and Yoda post TPM?
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 8:41 am
Azronger wrote:TCW comes chronologically later, though, so you can reconcile them as Yoda simply growing.
By how much though?
- Master AzrongerModerator
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 8:44 am
I don't remember where it's said TPM Dooku is a peer of Windu and Yoda. The latter two are definitively more powerful if memory serves me correctly.
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- Master AzrongerModerator
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 8:44 am
Latham2000 wrote:Azronger wrote:TCW comes chronologically later, though, so you can reconcile them as Yoda simply growing.
By how much though?
No clue. The timeline is a mess.
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- Latham2000Level Three
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 8:49 am
The Star Wars timeline in a nutshell.
CuckedCurryLevel Four
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 9:30 am
It adds up if you discard TCW 
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 10:06 am
CuckedCurry wrote:It adds up if you discard TCW
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 10:11 am
I change my mind and gonna say Yoda wins. TCW illusion kinda implies that imo. Yoda against a less powerful Sidious would give him the win.
The Fallen WarriorLevel Four
Re: TPM Sidious vs. AotC Yoda
February 7th 2020, 10:19 am
Rots sidious couldn't oneshot, no idea why a less practiced sidious would. Yoda wins
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