Exar Kun vs Darth Wyyrlok III

Who wins?

1. Lightsabers
2. Force
3. All Out

Wyyrlok in all save for potentially the first round.

Kun probably wins sabers, Wyyrlok wins the others,

Wyyrlok should have all rounds.

Give it to the III.

Reasons for Wyyrlok taking force?

Exar Kun with medium difficulty.

W3 gets smashed. In all fields of combat.

Kun.

Kun.

Wyyrlok is the second most powerful sith of the legacy era, but in an interesting turn of events, the spirit of Andeddu whom Kun is superior too is able to put up a fight. So its not the stompage that everyone thinks but Wyyrlok wins

Andeddu isn't even close to Kun.

Kun wins imo

1- Kun (easily)
2- Either way
3- Kun

Kun should win, better duelist and force user. Wyyrlok puts up a fight though

Wyyrlok is not much of a warrior, in fact I recall there is a quote stating as much - his strengths lie primarily in his other Force powers. Is Wyyrlok necessarily a s**t duelist? No, he clearly has some training and a great deal of raw power, I don't think he would lose to someone like Talon or Nihl, but he's not up there with the very best duelists in history either.

Force only is a much more interesting debate. It's going to ultimately come down to who is more powerful and skilled out of the two, I don't foresee that either can really surprise each other with their knowledge.

Ziggy wrote:W3 gets smashed. In all fields of combat.

If you can lay out a brief case for why you think Kun smashes Wyyrlok in Force only, I'll see if I can come to Wyyrlok's defence with some of his own feats/scaling.

Without factoring in the Malak quote (which I honestly think is on its last legs in certain ways,) Kun is probably capable of defeating Wyyrlok’s master, so I don’t see Wyyrlok doing anything other than delay the inevitable.

Factoring in the Malak quote, things become much more interesting, and I think you can make the case that (TOTJ) Kun  wouldn’t be able to hold up the same level of success against Reborn Krayt as Wyyrlok. But even this ultimately comes down to how well you think Wyyrlok performed against Krayt, I suppose.

The Divine Source wrote:Without factoring in the Malak quote (which I honestly think is on its last legs in certain ways,) Kun is probably capable of defeating Wyyrlok’s master, so I don’t see Wyyrlok doing anything other than delay the inevitable.

Factoring in the Malak quote, things become much more interesting, and I think you can make the case that (TOTJ) Kun  wouldn’t be able to hold up the same level of success against Reborn Krayt as Wyyrlok. But even this ultimately comes down to how well you think Wyyrlok performed against Krayt, I suppose.

His fight against Reborn Krayt is nice, but I think Wyyrlok can very much stand on his own where feats are concerned. I also don't see Kun beating Vong Krayt.

ILS wrote:

The Divine Source wrote:Without factoring in the Malak quote (which I honestly think is on its last legs in certain ways,) Kun is probably capable of defeating Wyyrlok’s master, so I don’t see Wyyrlok doing anything other than delay the inevitable.

Factoring in the Malak quote, things become much more interesting, and I think you can make the case that (TOTJ) Kun  wouldn’t be able to hold up the same level of success against Reborn Krayt as Wyyrlok. But even this ultimately comes down to how well you think Wyyrlok performed against Krayt, I suppose.

His fight against Reborn Krayt is nice, but I think Wyyrlok can very much stand on his own where feats are concerned. I also don't see Kun beating Vong Krayt.

Well I mean, we have established that Muur is more powerful : :tryme:

Yeah, Kun still cleansweeps.

ILS, I'm gonna be honest, I find it hard to believe even Vong Krayt "stands on his own" where feats are concerned compared to Exar Kun, though it depends on whether or not you're responding in the context of the Malak quote being true or Kun having some sort of low ceiling in general. As far as feats, Spirit Kun bolstered a (relatively) nascent Kyp Durron's capabilities to insanely high levels. I'd like to pre-emptively thank AP for these quotes:

The Force blow he aimed at me glanced off my chest, yet it was strong enough to bounce me off the corrider wall. I managed to catch myself against the rough stone, but not before I'd slid half-way down the wall.
"You are not my master!" Kyp pointed back toward the dining room, "He is not my master! What good is it being a Jedi if we do not act?"
"What good is it being Jedi if we don't act responsibly?" I hauled myself upright, "Remember Kyp, the 'no good Jedi' kicked Kun's butt.." Kyp struck at me again through the Force but I expected it this time, I absorbed enough of it to let me create a shield.
"You're involved with someone who lost a long time ago, don't compound his error."
"And who will stop me?" I hesitated because Kyp's words seemed to echo within themselves, we were not alone, which meant
Kyp's mentor had come to aid his apprentice.
"I will, if you make it necessary." An ancient sneer of contempt twisted Kyp's features.
"Puny Jedi, you are of no concern to me." Even though I had braced myself for another attack, it did no good. Kyp's previous blows were like light breezes compared to this full-on gale. I slammed back into the wall with teeth rattling-impact.

It's clear in the text that Kyp working on his own is nowhere near as effective or powerful as when Exar Kun is reinforcing his capabilities. Furthermore, Kun is doing all of this while masking it all from Luke Skywalker who is only 15 meters away. This is a guy who could sense something like Palpatine merely empowering his dark side adepts from across the galaxy, and he's completely oblivious to Kun's machinations while in his direct vicinity. This leads Corran to believe that even at this point, Spirit Kun is a force more powerful than he cared to imagine existing:

"What happened to you?"
"Kyp didn't like the menu." I winced as a twing rang through my ribs. "We had a discussion in the hallway, you didn't feel anything?" Heads all around the hallway shook, and I felt a cold dread begin to congeal in my stomach. If Exar Kun could mask the attack on me in such a way that Master Skywalker could not feel it barely fifteen meters away, then we were up against something more powerful than I'd cared to imagine existing.

Now, it might be easy to just handwave this by saying, "Oh Kun is just unlocking Kyp's latent potential," but I've come to realize this is a pretty rudimentary explanation to a more nuanced situation. I would honestly liken Kun's shenanigans with Kyp more to Muur's relationship with Celeste, Nox's relationship with the sith ghosts, or Valkorion's relationship with the Outlander in KOTFE. In all of these scenarios, there seems to be a more additive boost between the spirit and the host than an exponential, latent ability-unlocking boost: Krayt spurs on Celeste to draw on Muur's power to fuel her own, Nox draws on the ghosts to do the same, and Outlander draws on Valkorion's ghost to...do the same. The only difference appears to be whether or not the host is capable of drawing on the power of the spirit effectively without blowing away their body, and that may be more based on their potential: Celeste is able to effectively channel Muur's energy, Kyp is able to effectively channel Kun's energy, but someone like Nox is not capable of effectively channeling the power of the sith ghosts until she augments her body with Rakatan technology and fully conquers the spirits mentally. So I think it's insanely impressive that Kun is able to bolster a nascent Kyp's power to the extent that he can utterly overwhelm Grandmaster Luke Skywalker, who is using "all his defensive techniques" to try and stop it. People have tried to lowball the impressiveness of this feat by mentioning Luke being somehow hindered among other things, but when we're talking about a guy who was able to give Kueller (a force user more powerful than Darth Vader and arguably Joruus C'baoth, who in turn is far more powerful than Darth Vader via quotes) a damn solid fight when "at best" 10% of his full capability, I'm not sure it really effing matters.    (Funny enough, Mara believes that Spirit Kun is more powerful than Kueller).

There's also the fact that Kun literally expels this man's (Luke's) soul out of his body, and he can't return until Kun's essence is entirely dissipated/erased/sent to chaos. This notion is further supported by a quote from TCSWE AP pointed out in another thread. All in all, I just don't really see how Wyyrlok compares to the power and sheer versatility that Kun presented in JA. I'm not going to address Ant's concern about Kun's theoretical "ceiling" based on Sidious' most powerful quotes, as those can be either worked around entirely by bifurcating Spirit Kun and JA Kun (though I'm not sure what evidence supports this) or you can even possibly argue that TPM Sidious > Kun quotes are contradicted by actual events that canonically (in the context of legends) happened, though you could say this is a longshot.

And let's be real, even if Kun's ceiling is slightly below TPM Sidious, that's still pretty far above Wyyrlok.  

The lightsabers round should be won quite decisively by Exar Kun. The Force round may be quite a close one, but clearly Wyrrlok's best chances are in this round. I think he may take it. The all-out should go to Kun as his duelling advantage significantly outweighs Wyyrlok's Force advantage.

There's nothing Wyyrlok has that's putting him even close to Exar Kun.

Going to go with Kun.

Still Wyyrlok. Possibly even easily.