Re: Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends?

December 8th 2019, 1:41 am

DC77 (Reborn) wrote:

The Apprentice wrote:

Bad thread, the answer is given in the canon policy, Lucas's authority is absolute.

December 8th 2019, 5:54 am

Zenwolf wrote:

Azronger wrote:Well, yeah, but so has the continuity as a whole. We accept the latest information and discard outdated statements. The same standard applies to Lucas.

That so?

Well color me confused, cause I see a lot of old and outdated statements that clearly don't apply to later for a character as it's obvious it just doesn't add up to later information in an attempt to lowball them.

Examples would be preferred.

December 8th 2019, 12:15 pm

@BreakofDawn

I asked for an explicit contradiction. I fully acknowledged that it might not have been JK Rowling's intent when she wrote the novel, but there's no evidence that Gellert and Albus weren't in such a relationship. Your comment was on authors contradicting previous statements, but you've yet to provide an actual contradiction between JK's statement and Deathly Hallows.

December 8th 2019, 12:27 pm

Cool. Hermione being black.

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 2 J-k-ro10

Amos Diggory also asks if Hermione is Mr Weasley's daughter. Bit of a strange thing to ask a man with only pale-faced, red haired, and blue eyes.

Also:

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 2 Main-q18

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 2 Jkr_ga10

December 8th 2019, 12:31 pm

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 2 1289255181

And I'm agreed there. I was merely questioning a contradiction on Albus and Gellert's relationship, cause to my memory there wasn't one.

December 8th 2019, 12:34 pm

Explicit? None that springs to mind beyond numerous people calling them friends and not noticing anything even remotely romantic between the two and lurdo himself offering zero indication of it being the case.

Also, why the hell does Albus' surname keep correcting to "lurdo"? Who on earth is Lurdo?

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 2 Screen53

Should we be so reliant on G-Canon when debating legends? - Page 2 Screen54

December 8th 2019, 1:09 pm

LMFAO.

December 8th 2019, 1:16 pm

BreakofDawn wrote:Explicit? None that springs to mind beyond numerous people calling them friends and not noticing anything even remotely romantic between the two and lurdo himself offering zero indication of it being the case.

Also, why the hell does Albus' surname keep correcting to "lurdo"? Who on earth is Lurdo?

It does that for me as well, 'tis very annoying.

December 8th 2019, 1:22 pm

Azronger wrote:

Zenwolf wrote:

Azronger wrote:Well, yeah, but so has the continuity as a whole. We accept the latest information and discard outdated statements. The same standard applies to Lucas.

That so?

Well color me confused, cause I see a lot of old and outdated statements that clearly don't apply to later for a character as it's obvious it just doesn't add up to later information in an attempt to lowball them.

Examples would be preferred.

I think he's referring to the stuff about Vader

December 8th 2019, 4:07 pm

The Witness wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Zenwolf wrote:

Azronger wrote:Well, yeah, but so has the continuity as a whole. We accept the latest information and discard outdated statements. The same standard applies to Lucas.

That so?

Well color me confused, cause I see a lot of old and outdated statements that clearly don't apply to later for a character as it's obvious it just doesn't add up to later information in an attempt to lowball them.

Examples would be preferred.

I think he's referring to the stuff about Vader

That and I'm pretty sure Sidious has something there too.

There is also I think Ben Kenobi. Also Luke Skywalker.

In fact, in going with this whole "go with newer info", I'm sure a lot of characters would be changed around greatly.

December 8th 2019, 5:06 pm

there is actually a good bit about luke that isnt talked about. i saw like, a good 3 or so statements that say that his potential is even greater than anakin's, which is well, wrong to say the least.

December 9th 2019, 3:06 am

Zenwolf wrote:

The Witness wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Zenwolf wrote:

Azronger wrote:Well, yeah, but so has the continuity as a whole. We accept the latest information and discard outdated statements. The same standard applies to Lucas.

That so?

Well color me confused, cause I see a lot of old and outdated statements that clearly don't apply to later for a character as it's obvious it just doesn't add up to later information in an attempt to lowball them.

Examples would be preferred.

I think he's referring to the stuff about Vader

That and I'm pretty sure Sidious has something there too.

There is also I think Ben Kenobi. Also Luke Skywalker.

In fact, in going with this whole "go with newer info", I'm sure a lot of characters would be changed around greatly.

You just name-dropped a bunch of characters. You didn't cite any examples.

December 9th 2019, 10:59 am

Azronger wrote:

Zenwolf wrote:

The Witness wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Zenwolf wrote:

Azronger wrote:Well, yeah, but so has the continuity as a whole. We accept the latest information and discard outdated statements. The same standard applies to Lucas.

That so?

Well color me confused, cause I see a lot of old and outdated statements that clearly don't apply to later for a character as it's obvious it just doesn't add up to later information in an attempt to lowball them.

Examples would be preferred.

I think he's referring to the stuff about Vader

You just name-dropped a bunch of characters. You didn't cite any examples.

Didn’t think I’d need to with how common the Vader and Ben stuff is.

But you know the infamous Fightsaber quote saying how both are slow and out of practice and all that by ANH. Or I think it’s that one, there might be others. Despite the fact later sources have Ben training and Vader hunting down Jedi and showing or having accolades about how fast he is.

December 9th 2019, 12:31 pm

I don't use that stuff, personally. I've advocated before that Fightsaber labeling Vader's technique to be lacking the polish of lifelong study with masters or whatever is clearly outdated.

December 9th 2019, 1:09 pm

Can someone send the exact Fightsaber quote saying ANH Vader was out of practice?

December 9th 2019, 2:06 pm

EmperorCaedus wrote:Can someone send the exact Fightsaber quote saying ANH Vader was out of practice?

Ok maybe not exact word for word, but it's implied that the pair hadn't fought any lightsaber wielders until they had met.

When Obi-Wan Kenobi duels his former apprentice Darth Vader on the Death Star, both combatants know that they are but shadows of their former selves. Neither has fought another lightsaber-wielder for many years.

- Insider 62

...This is clearly wrong, given later novels and comics(post 2002, when far more material came out, so Insider 62 is severely outdated with information) with Vader fighting multiple Jedi Purge survivors and also Galen/Starkiller. I mean hell, he fought An'ya Kuro and that doppleganger Darth Maul(weither believing this is apart of Legends or not is irrelevant, I'm just making a point) which were very close to the timeframe of his duel with Ben on the Death Star.

Hell you know what it occurs to me, that sure, that Inside quote might make sense if we look at it strictly from a movie perspective, which is what Fightsaber seems to go with.

Then yeah, of course it fits nicely. But in taking account everything, it doesn't....hell even material before 2002 has Vader fighting against lightsaber opponents.

This whole Insider Fightsaber quote that people love bringing up to downplay Vader and Ben, has no basis at all prior or post 2002 EU material because it seems to me it's just taking the OT into account. Hell the damn PT wasn't even finished yet.

This is the same with taking GL quotes into account, of course he wouldn't know everything about the EU because as he's stated, that's different to him than the movies, so really even taking his word which also have been contradictory, would only be applying to the movies themselves and not anything else.

So Vader being cripply slow...makes no sense, given there's information and showing that Vader isn't as slow as the OT makes him out to be. Yeah sure, that might be true very early in his career, but you honestly expect someone who just got maimed and put in a life support suit, losing his legs and arms to just suddenly be able to do whatever he had been doing when he had all his limbs? I would hope not.

December 9th 2019, 2:24 pm

not even early in his career is he slow. he is actually incredibly fast. faster than mustafar kenobi, i think, and can blitz high end jedi to the lvl it looks like he is teleporting.

December 9th 2019, 2:35 pm

This is the same with taking GL quotes into account, of course he wouldn't know everything about the EU because as he's stated, that's different to him than the movies, so really even taking his word which also have been contradictory, would only be applying to the movies themselves and not anything else.

Per LFL policy, it's the EU's responsibility to adjust to match Lucas' POV, not the other way around.

---

FYI to all, per forum rules, members are welcome to make threads with stipulations that diminish/exclude Lucas statements:

Suspect Insight wrote:GUIDELINES:

Members reserve the right to dictate the stipulations of any thread that they have created. This includes restricting characters to Disney continuity only, allowing composite (i.e. both Legends and Canon) versions, banning George Lucas statements, etc. However, until clarified otherwise, the following stipulations are to be assumed:

(1) Legends continuity only. If a thread states "Darth Vader versus Yoda" and provides no further context, then anything published by Disney is not applicable.

(2) All formal and informal policies of Lucas Licensing as of September 2012, including the internal continuity rankings of the Holocron, are law. The rules include, but are not limited to, applicable and relevant material from the following link: http://www.st-v-sw.net/CanonWars/SWCanonquotes2.html#Licensing.

(3) The combatants will fight in-character, with morals on, and are at their peak combative state bar external amps or other circumstantial power boosts. They will start 100 meters away from each other on open grass fields. Victory necessitates permanently killing or destroying the physical body of the opponent.

December 9th 2019, 2:38 pm

can u reword that please? im not sure i follow what u are saying.

December 9th 2019, 2:40 pm

DarthAnt66 wrote:

This is the same with taking GL quotes into account, of course he wouldn't know everything about the EU because as he's stated, that's different to him than the movies, so really even taking his word which also have been contradictory, would only be applying to the movies themselves and not anything else.

Per LFL policy, it's the EU's responsibility to adjust to match Lucas' POV, not the other way around.

---

FYI to all, per forum rules, members are welcome to make threads with stipulations that diminish/exclude Lucas statements:

Suspect Insight wrote:GUIDELINES:

Members reserve the right to dictate the stipulations of any thread that they have created. This includes restricting characters to Disney continuity only, allowing composite (i.e. both Legends and Canon) versions, banning George Lucas statements, etc. However, until clarified otherwise, the following stipulations are to be assumed:

(1) Legends continuity only. If a thread states "Darth Vader versus Yoda" and provides no further context, then anything published by Disney is not applicable.

(2) All formal and informal policies of Lucas Licensing as of September 2012, including the internal continuity rankings of the Holocron, are law. The rules include, but are not limited to, applicable and relevant material from the following link: http://www.st-v-sw.net/CanonWars/SWCanonquotes2.html#Licensing.

(3) The combatants will fight in-character, with morals on, and are at their peak combative state bar external amps or other circumstantial power boosts. They will start 100 meters away from each other on open grass fields. Victory necessitates permanently killing or destroying the physical body of the opponent.

Right I get that, but at the same time, there's material that also goes against what Lucas has said soo....it seems more loose than concrete, especially since Lucas has gone back and forth on a few things.

December 9th 2019, 2:40 pm

In those cases, Lucas would just override what the EU said (e.g. when Yoda went to Dagobah) unless Chee and LFL make an exception (e.g. origins of the Sith).

December 9th 2019, 2:43 pm

i think an obvious one would be vader having some slight parity to sheev in lucas' mindset, but alllllll other media portrays sheev as>>> vader. we cant go and say "nah, all other media are karking wrong cuz lucas in 1980's said something"

December 9th 2019, 2:47 pm

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:i think an obvious one would be vader having some slight parity to sheev in lucas' mindset, but alllllll other media portrays sheev as>>> vader. we cant go and say "nah, all other media are karking wrong cuz lucas in 1980's said something"

Unless you're referencing the 80% thing, Lucas has never suggested them comparable.

December 9th 2019, 2:51 pm

i am referring to that, yes. that quote is old, but it hadnt been fully actually contradicted until lucas came in years later saying that vader was fodder to anakin, who was equal to sheev, so him being 80% of sheev logically contradicts that other statement.

just one of my nitpicks with lucas' contractions lol

December 9th 2019, 2:52 pm

The quote's relatively new and has been interpreted a variety of ways.