Luke Skywalker vs Darth Maul

In-sidiousvader wrote:

Meatpants wrote:I think there's a bit of bias for raw power in the community. Mastery CAN count for something.

Agreed, Vader has more mastery than Sidious, while sheev has more raw power

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@in-sidiousvader: Uh, did you forget to read the next page:



And yes, Vader doesn't want to kill Luke, but he's still using his full power to defeat him. Vader recognizes that if he doesn't (and dies), the Emperor will then have Luke, which is his worst-case scenario. Note that Vader's willing to kill Luke if he has to anyway.

@In-sidiousvader I got more scans stating that Vader was emotionally hindered if you need them

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:but Luke is likely referring to the Cloud City fight anyway

Nah, I thought the quote says "fightS" -emphasis on the s at the end- so he's clearly referring to not just the ESB fight but also the RotJ fight as well

That's a separate quote. But true, I forgot about that one. 

Still, as we discussed on Amino, obviously Luke's thoughts on Vader's exertion is irrelevant if we have Vader's own thoughts of his exertion (as shown in Return of the Jedi and Rise and Fall of Darth Vader novelizations) plus out-of-universe statements on Vader's exertion (as shown in Return of the Jedi comic).

DarthAnt66 wrote:@in-sidiousvader: Uh, did you forget to read the next page:



And yes, Vader doesn't want to kill Luke, but he's still using his full power to defeat him. Vader recognizes that if he doesn't (and dies), the Emperor will then have Luke, which is his worst-case scenario. Note that Vader's willing to kill Luke if he has to anyway.

Well I won't counter the last part saving that my CaV and I did not read the next page, but thanks at least for providing the evidence this time

:P

BUT! it it worth noting that according to fact files Vader was distracted when he got kicked, so even if he was bringing his full power to bear, he wasn't concentrated enough to see the kick coming lol. More excuses where that came from but until the debate they will not be revealed, good response though.

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:@In-sidiousvader I got more scans stating that Vader was emotionally hindered if you need them

sure dm them to me, I probably have them but any little bit helps

Well I won't counter the last part saving that my CaV and I did not read the next page, but thanks at least for providing the evidence this time

I gave the source. You literally just didn't turn the page. 

BUT! it it worth noting that according to fact files Vader was distracted when he got kicked, so even if he was bringing his full power to bear, he wasn't concentrated enough to see the kick coming lol. More excuses where that came from but until the debate they will not be revealed, good response though.

And? The script and other sources still make clear it's either a battle of equals or it leans toward Luke, regardless if Vader noticed his fly was down at the wrong moment.

DarthAnt66 wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:but Luke is likely referring to the Cloud City fight anyway

Nah, I thought the quote says "fightS" -emphasis on the s at the end- so he's clearly referring to not just the ESB fight but also the RotJ fight as well

That's a separate quote. But true, I forgot about that one. 

Still, as we discussed on Amino, obviously Luke's thoughts on Vader's exertion is irrelevant if we have Vader's own thoughts of his exertion (as shown in Return of the Jedi and Rise and Fall of Darth Vader novelizations) plus out-of-universe statements on Vader's exertion (as shown in Return of the Jedi comic).

Oh yea I forgot about that discussion lol. You might be right then

DarthAnt66 wrote:

Well I won't counter the last part saving that my CaV and I did not read the next page, but thanks at least for providing the evidence this time

I gave the source. You literally just didn't turn the page. 

Indeed, my bad,

BUT! it it worth noting that according to fact files Vader was distracted when he got kicked, so even if he was bringing his full power to bear, he wasn't concentrated enough to see the kick coming lol. More excuses where that came from but until the debate they will not be revealed, good response though.

And? The script and other sources still make clear it's either a battle of equals or it leans toward Luke, regardless if Vader noticed his fly was down mid-way through the fight.

well... the thing is feats are contradictory to the actual fight itself. Regardless of the fact they are equals in quotes, they aren't in terms of feats, but it really depends on how you judge that, but personally Feats > G canon statements in my view

Luke, all rounds

It's also worth noting that, alongside the comic stating Vader brings his "full strength and power" against Luke, it also notes that Vader's fighting "brutally, aggressively." Going back to my earlier point, Vader's worst-case scenario is losing this fight given that means both a.) he dies and b.) his son becomes Palpatine's apprentice, as Vader notes in TRaVoDV. While Vader's not actively trying to kill Luke, he is down to kill Luke if need-be (as said in ROTJ novel), and he's not going to restrain himself against an absolute equal and thereby increase the chances of his worst-case scenario happening.

Vader's scenarios from best-to-worst:

1. Vader wins duel w/o killing Luke
   
2. Vader wins duel by killing Luke
   
3. Luke kills Vader and joins Palpatine
   

well... the thing is feats are contradictory to the actual fight itself. Regardless of the fact they are equals in quotes, they aren't in terms of feats, but it really depends on how you judge that, but personally Feats > G canon statements in my view

They fight and Luke equals Vader. That is Luke's feat, lol.

DarthAnt66 wrote:

well... the thing is feats are contradictory to the actual fight itself. Regardless of the fact they are equals in quotes, they aren't in terms of feats, but it really depends on how you judge that, but personally Feats > G canon statements in my view

They fight and Luke equals Vader. That is Luke's feat, lol.

No... not what i mean, just wait

Luke closely
Luke decisively
Luke stomps

Luke takes the first 2 in a close fight, shreds in the third.