Darth Plagueis vs The Outlander

Round 1: Sabers Only
Round 2: Force Only
Round 3: All-Out

- Standard Rules
- Fight takes on Geonosis where Dooku fought Yoda

Don’t comment if you don’t provide any reasonings.

Plagueis, far greater depth and exploration into the Force and midichlorians accelerated his power to abnormal proportions that I doubt could matched by anyone who isn’t the bastarding antichrist (Wankatine) or other beings of absolutely ludicrous levels of experience and abnormal potential. Plagueis has elite potential and has mastery of abilities well outside the scope of which the Outlander is capable of fighting against. 

Valkorion is really the only person from that era that can hang with Damask

[size=34]Valkorion is really the only person from that era that can hang with Damask[/size]

*Cough* Revan *Cough*

Revan gets smacked Tbh

R1: Outlander. Much more skilled.
R2: Could go either way. Outlander is stronger by virtue of parity with unchained Vaylin but Plagueis has MM to fall back on. I'll hesitantly say the Outlander. Still not convinced by the Outlander being enhanced by midichlorians argument, let alone that it makes the Outlander resistant or even outright to Plagueis' influence, however.
R3: Outlander.

I don’t think people understand how and why Plagueis is as powerful as he is, and how he completely re-wrote what it meant to live and die, to heal and suffer from disease. All it takes is one concentrated exertion of power and the Outlander will start to die, and most likely very quickly. Plagueis’ unnatural experiments with the Force prompted the Force itself to create the literal embodiment of darkness in the form of Sidious. Everything has an action and a reaction. Sidious was created to kill Plagueis, just as Anakin was created to kill Sidious.

The Outlander is leagues beneath Valkorion in power, who was able to be challenged by lesser Sith Lords than PT Sidious in Dramath. Plagueis is on the level of PT Sidious, so he stand up to Valkorion as well in a contest of sheer power, something which the Outlander has no hope of accomplishing. His overall greater mastery and especially his midi-chlorian manipulation solidify this as an utter stomp.

Btw, the thread maker has clearly requested reasons, so I'll be deleting any comments that don't provide any.

The Outlander is leagues beneath Valkorion in power, who was able to be challenged by lesser Sith Lords than PT Sidious in Dramath.

I wouldn't take Dramath's non-canon, easily circumstantial feat as more reliable than pre-teen Vitiate severing Dramath and encasing his spirit away.

DarthAnt66 wrote:

The Outlander is leagues beneath Valkorion in power, who was able to be challenged by lesser Sith Lords than PT Sidious in Dramath.

I wouldn't take Dramath's non-canon, easily circumstantial feat as more reliable than pre-teen Vitiate severing Dramath and encasing his spirit away.

????

Only happens in the dark side version, going with the idea the LS storyline is canon.

Hard to not take this as proof of vast superiority. ^ Dramath goes to "bring the boy in life," Vitiate breaks his mind, strips him of the Force, then locks away his spirit. 

Also, Dramath doing a suicidal spirit bomb isn't at all reflective of his standard power-level as it manifests in a fight.

Stated where? And this isn't like KotOR, TFU, or Dark Forces where the dark side ending essentially creates an alternate continuity; SWTOR's story progresses similarly regardless of class or alignment with only minor details varying, so even if the purely light side Jedi Knight is the canon path, it doesn't preclude other options of being perfectly viable alternate scenarios. Didn't you just two days ago say on Discord you consider the RotS novel a valid alternate take despite contradicting Lucas' movie in almost every scene?

The Outlander is leagues beneath Valkorion in power, who was able to be challenged by lesser Sith Lords than PT Sidious in Dramath. Plagueis is on the level of PT Sidious, so he stand up to Valkorion as well in a contest of sheer power, something which the Outlander has no hope of accomplishing. His overall greater mastery and especially his midi-chlorian manipulation solidify this as an utter stomp.

Considering that you think the Outlander is Arcann tier in his prime, forgive me if I ignore the majority of this. Ant addressed the rest. Suicidal bomb that did nothing more than knock Valkorion down, make him chuckle and stand back up and continue as though nothing happened afterwards =/= standard power level.

I mean, Valkorion was put on his ass by Dramath’s onslaught and was completely unable to retaliate. And you can’t just make up excuses for Valkorion like “oh he only knocked him down” because even Valk was like damn this bash just pierced my defences

Stated where? And this isn't like KotOR, TFU, or Dark Forces where the dark side ending essentially creates an alternate continuity; SWTOR's story progresses similarly regardless of class or alignment with only minor details varying, so even if the purely light side Jedi Knight is the canon path, it doesn't preclude other options of being perfectly viable alternate scenarios. 

Except the dark side versions clearly have radically different power-levels (e.g. dark side Outlander) and/or wildly hard to rationalize fights (e.g. vs Arcann). As for the significance of using LS only, only one event actually happened, and it seems we've all generally agreed to take the LS for many reasons.

Didn't you just two days ago say on Discord you consider the RotS novel a valid alternate take despite contradicting Lucas' movie in almost every scene?

Yes, but that's unique to Lucas. Given his beliefs/thoughts are also canon, the ROTS novel is rendered as a valid hypothetical alternative despite never having actually happened. That doesn't apply to the rest of the expanded universe given the supreme emphasis on one cohesive continuity. 

To flip the question, don't you not take Maul vs Vader in Resurrection as canon because it's not apart of said one cohesive continuity?

I don’t think people understand how and why Plagueis is as powerful as he is, and how he completely re-wrote what it meant to live and die, to heal and suffer from disease.

Ok?

All it takes is one concentrated exertion of power and the Outlander will start to die, and most likely very quickly.

Assuming that A) he can do this to a trained Force user more powerful than he with their defences up, and B) if the Outlander gives him a chance to do so considering their skill and power edge.

Plagueis’ unnatural experiments with the Force prompted the Force itself to create the literal embodiment of darkness in the form of Sidious.

I definitely do not remember this, do you have a quote? Not doubting you, just interested.

Everything has an action and a reaction. Sidious was created to kill Plagueis, just as Anakin was created to kill Sidious.

Doesn't mean it was an intentional creation or completely down to him. Think of it like dropping a vial of poison into a lake; you might have had a hand in warping the nature of the lake's chemical composition, but it was the tainting of the water that ultimately led to the lake becoming something entirely new and toxic. As for the creation thing, Plagueis and Sidious for example most certainly did not predict Anakin's creation.

DarthAnt66 wrote:

Hard to not take this as proof of vast superiority. ^ Dramath goes to "bring the boy in life," Vitiate breaks his mind, strips him of the Force, then locks away his spirit. 

Also, Dramath doing a suicidal spirit bomb isn't at all reflective of his standard power-level as it manifests in a fight.

1. Why is Dramath's feat in KotET circumstantial when we clearly see what happened on-screen while that is not?

2. Why couldn't Dramath have grown over 1450 years when we know that he regained his connection to the Force, and without a physical body, he has no midi-chlorian count capping how powerful he can become?

3. Dramath did more than just a suicide blast: he shot a red beam at Valkorion that caused him to stagger, forced him on his knees with gestures resembling telekinesis, and only then sacrificed himself. That's right after coming out of a fight with Arcann and Vaylin, in which he clearly wasn't fodderized.

CuckedCurry wrote:I mean, Valkorion was put on his ass by Dramath’s onslaught and was completely unable to retaliate. And you can’t just make up excuses for Valkorion like “oh he only knocked him down” because even Valk was like damn this bash just pierced my defences

Valk was down for about 5 seconds, stood back up (albeit with effort) then chuckled and carried on like nothing happened. Dramath's attack - which took everything he had considering it killed him - did nothing more to Valk after that. More likely than not, Valk did not expect that kind of attack.

BoD it still amazes me how you can never understand the bigger picture no matter what the topic is.

Anyway, this is clearly turning into another extensive debate which I don't want to involve myself in. I've said my points and concede nothing. We can agree to disagree for now.

CuckedCurry wrote:BoD it still amazes me how you can never understand the bigger picture no matter what the topic is.

It's a talent, just as having nothing but patronising remarks appears to be yours.

Bulging eyes emoji

CuckedCurry wrote:Bulging eyes emoji

Cute.