Re: Darth Vader vs Darth Nihilus (sabers only)

September 25th 2019, 5:19 pm

Where does Lucas' words stand regarding the number canon, Ant?

September 25th 2019, 5:21 pm

Deronn_Solo wrote:Where does Lucas' words stand regarding the number canon, Ant?

Sorry, what do you mean?

September 25th 2019, 5:29 pm

I mean like, does the statements Lucas made pre-Disney purchase, still hold the same degree of binding law: E.I. Nick's tiering system and the like?

September 25th 2019, 5:33 pm

Lucas' statements/opinions basically hold 0 canonical value in the new Disney canon.

September 25th 2019, 5:37 pm

DarthAnt66 wrote:

SithSauce wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:

BreakofDawn wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:(Just wanted to note that I don't think Vader is beneath generic PT Jedi for those that couldn't tell, lol. I don't think Lucas does either.)

Honestly, with the way the advertising goes he'd say it just to get people to see those films. His quotes always have to be taken with a grain of salt.

@BreakofDawn: Well, I definitely don't agree with you there. Not only is Lucas' word nigh-absolute under LFL policy and Leland Chee's Holocron database, but his word can literally retcon entire swaths EU material instantly. If, for example, Lucas said Vader never used X Force ability, then three EU books show Vader with X Force ability, those instances are non-canon. Or, if Lucas says Vader is weaker than character X, then fifty sourcebooks say Vader is stronger than X, Lucas' quote takes priority.

To my knowledge, Star Wars is the only universe that puts such word-of-god emphasis to its creator, but it is what it is.

But lets say if there was a scenario where Lucas say's "the Old Republic is trash, and Revan,Malak, Vitiate don't exist in my universe"
What would we do then?

Lucas recognizes two parallel universes -- his film/TCW universe and the LFL universe. LFL officials, such as Leland Chee and Pablo Hidalgo, have the authority to dictate what is canon within the LFL universe, but their own rules put Lucas' statements/drafts over any of their own content (ergo, "G-Canon"). So, if Lucas said they don't exist within "my universe," that would be recognized as just referring to "his universe" and not the "LFL universe."

ok. So all the movie characters are essentially "handcuffed" by G-Canon. So if any legends content surrounding their power levels contradicts Lucas's interpretation, then we take Lucas's version as canon. While the Old Republic is a totally different universe outside of G-Canon, so the writers have the freedom to do whatever they want with the characters pertaining to that era, and make up their own rules.

September 25th 2019, 5:49 pm

ok. So all the movie characters are essentially "handcuffed" by G-Canon. So if any legends content surrounding their power levels contradicts Lucas's interpretation, then we take Lucas's version as canon. While the Old Republic is a totally different universe outside of G-Canon, so the writers have the freedom to do whatever they want with the characters pertaining to that era, and make up their own rules.

Well, I think the key is to optimize C-Canon power-levels within the context of Lucas' statements. As I said earlier, I don't think Lucas' statements on ROTJ Luke necessitate that he's weaker than, say, Kit Fisto. It can simultaneously be true that Luke's a relatively poorly trained Jedi and that he has amazing telekinetic power and lightsaber skills rooted in his nigh-unprecedented Force potential. Many EU sources have also given this description to Luke, such as Fightsaber.

September 25th 2019, 6:13 pm

The screenplays, original novel for ANH and movie for example are all examples of G-canon, however. I’m curious what’d we do then.

September 25th 2019, 6:16 pm

Assuming you're referring to Ben vs Vader, clearly Lucas thought nothing within that content put Vader above Ben in Force power. I think there's endless ways to reach that conclusion too. Though, just as a note, the ANH adult novel is considered C-Canon not G-Canon.

September 25th 2019, 6:19 pm

You mean the From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker? Cos if so, it’s probably because though the script makes it clear it’s not so huge that he felt a need to distinguish.

September 25th 2019, 6:21 pm

Yeah, that one. And where does the script state Vader has greater Force power than Ben?

September 25th 2019, 6:37 pm

DarthAnt66 wrote:Yeah, that one. And where does the script state Vader has greater Force power than Ben?

It doesn’t, only that his has grown and matured since last they met. It also doesn’t say Ben has greater power, though it heavily implies Vader > Ben in power, even if only just.

September 25th 2019, 6:40 pm

Well, Lucas' later statements clarify the context there then. Note Lucas did not even envision Anakin and Vader as the same person back when ANH was released.