ROTJ Palpatine vs ROTJ Vader's strike team

Underachiever599 wrote:We literally see Vader, who had just been beaten to the point of exhaustion and disarmed, walk through Palpatine's maximum intensity lightning in order to throw Palpatine down the shaft one-handed in RotJ. We've also seen Galen Marek successfully stopping Palpatine's lightning with tutaminus in TFU. I'm not aware of any quotes putting RotJ Palpatine massively above TFU Palpatine, so both Starkiller and The Dark Apprentice should likely be able to replicate this feat, especially since Sidious will have to divide his attention between five targets. 

I'd recommend you read the first 4 or so posts from this debate:

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t49-ss-super-fight-iii-darth-vader-azronger-vs-revan-darthant66

Vader was uniquely amped.

Refer to above posts from Ant and others regarding Lucas' own statements on why Sidious was fully capable of ragdolling Vader.

As for Starkiller, he was in oneness, and even then the instant he abosrbed the emperor's lightning his nerves were completely destroyed. Note also that the emperor had been toying with him earlier.

Sids blinks

I can't believe I'm saying this but it depends on Vader. If he gathers his strength and is highly motivated he can swing this in the team's favour, but only if he's highly motivated and has his lightsaber to help deal with Sheev's lightsaber. Either way, it's a very close win for the team if this happens.

@Azronger I agree that Sidious wins, but shouldn't Dark Apprentice be more powerful than Oneness Galen? According to Vader, DA is stronger than the original Marek has ever been. And Vader was a witness to the duel between Galen and Sidious, which means he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Shioz wrote:@Azronger I agree that Sidious wins, but shouldn't Dark Apprentice be more powerful than Oneness Galen? According to Vader, DA is stronger than the original Marek has ever been. And Vader was a witness to the duel between Galen and Sidious, which means he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Most quotes like that don't include one-time amps. For example, KFV claims to be more powerful than ever but we know that he's much weaker than Mortis Anakin.

I don’t think the point is one-time amps. You correctly noted that the quote that says KFV > Mortis Anakin is clearly contradictory and in no way fits into the universe for obvious reasons. But such problems do not arise with Vader's quote, which puts Dark Apprentice above Oneness Galen.

Shioz wrote:I don’t think the point is one-time amps. You correctly noted that the quote that says KFV > Mortis Anakin is clearly contradictory and in no way fits into the universe for obvious reasons. But such problems do not arise with Vader's quote, which puts Dark Apprentice above Oneness Galen.

Except Galen's oneness was a one-time amp he achieved under circumstances nearly impossible to replicate. He also only actually entered it when he caused the explosion, so the chances are Vader wouldn't have sensed it. AFAIK it's virtually impossible to be more powerful than your oneness self as your body basically becomes a conduit for the Force and makes you capable of feats you'd never be able to replicate otherwise. I doubt it was included in Vader's observation.

The other, out-of-universe explanation is that it's poor writing. Since the oneness amp wasn't featured in any of the games, the games continue as though he never actually achieved it so Vader's claim is technically correct.

On another note, we don't know if the clone is actually more powerful. Vader thinks the clone who empties himself of attachments is more powerful, but that's not necessarily true.

Shioz wrote:@Azronger I agree that Sidious wins, but shouldn't Dark Apprentice be more powerful than Oneness Galen? According to Vader, DA is stronger than the original Marek has ever been. And Vader was a witness to the duel between Galen and Sidious, which means he knew exactly what he was talking about.

Normally I'd agree with you, but there is contradicting evidence in this instance. Galen was confirmed to have reached his "true potential" and his midi-chlorians went into shock over much power he was channeling. The Dark Apprentice is a clone of Marek so I'd presume he has the same midi-chlorian count, seeing as Vader doesn't know midi-chlorian manipulation or any way to increase it, so it'd be impossible for him to be more powerful than the original Galen was at full potential.

Vader might have undeservedly praised his apprentice, but I don’t think he would do that. Another option is that Vader considers him more powerful due to the fact that he is completely inclined to the dark side, and if we take into account their equal potential with the original Marek, I consider this option the most probable. Or the body of the clone has great potential, but, as you already said, there is no evidence of this. Maybe the problem is precisely that the game does not coincide with the novel and the comic book, and Oneness was not demonstrated there, but then I do not know how we should accept this quote.