Darth Vader versus Revan

> Vader as of ANH
> Novel Revan (fully recovered and cleansed from effects of drugs, etc.)
> Standard gear for both
> In character
> Takes place in Krayt Dragon's cave

- Sabers
- Force
- All out

Who wins?

Bonus: Scourge joins Vader, Meetra joins Revan

Imma steer clear of this one...

Revan with ease. Make this RotJ Vader and it still isn't a fair fight.

 Revan Reborn>>>>>Nyriss>>Meetra Surik>Traya>>Kreia>>>>Three Jedi Masters. 

Vader doesn't have scaling comparable to this.

KingofBlades wrote:Revan with ease. Make this RotJ Vader and it still isn't a fair fight.

Even in sabers?

I doubt Revan is taking Vader in sabers, lmao.

@Deronn_Solo: Unfortunately I'm busy tonight, but I'll make a full case for Revan beating ROTJ Vader in sabers tomorrow.

HellfireUnit wrote:

KingofBlades wrote:Revan with ease. Make this RotJ Vader and it still isn't a fair fight.

Even in sabers?

Vader is likely a low tier 8. Obi Wan only a few months into his exile was noting the presence of rust with his skill. So Ben Kenobi is likely considerably below RotS Kenobi's skill in sabers. Vader as of ANH only had a small edge against Ben in their duel, showing they were comparable. So the skill threshold required to be above Vader isn't that high. While I could give Vader the benefit of the doubt and say he wins sabers, he isn't touching Revan in an all out fight.

Vader wins sabers only.
Revan trounces him in all out

@DarthAnt66: Great. I can't wait to see what you have in store.

Vader in sabers in a good fight. Revan wins in the Force with mid to high difficulty in terms of raw power but wins handily due to versatility.

KingofBlades wrote:

HellfireUnit wrote:

KingofBlades wrote:Revan with ease. Make this RotJ Vader and it still isn't a fair fight.

Even in sabers?

Vader is likely a low tier 8. Obi Wan only a few months into his exile was noting the presence of rust with his skill. So Ben Kenobi is likely considerably below RotS Kenobi's skill in sabers. Vader as of ANH only had a small edge against Ben in their duel, showing they were comparable. So the skill threshold required to be above Vader isn't that high. While I could give Vader the benefit of the doubt and say he wins sabers, he isn't touching Revan in an all out fight.

i wouldn´t use vaders duels with kenobi as a legit indicator of his true skills and powers .
we know dark side anakin was a tier 9 in RoTS but the duel against kenobi was highly circumstantional
(kenobi as a tier 8 should have lost that duel but he didn´t because of multiple reasons ,
if this was a random encounter and kenobi and anakin were strangers mustafar vader would overpower and kill obi-wan) .

same can be said about their dead star duel , vader is stronger and better but gives his master respect and proceeds carefully ,
he doesn´t want to repeat his mustafar failure .

OP: ANH vader wins sabers , revan wins the rest .

Revan.

Not to mention he quite clearly suffers from PTSD after their last fight, fights carefully the entire time and even then is overpowering Obi-Wan without too much trouble.

Revan wins force and all out. Waiting to see Ant make case for sabers

Revan wins solidly, if not easily. He has incredible scaling from Kreia and the masters.

This will be over as fast as Revan's fight with Nyriss.

KingofBlades wrote:Revan Reborn>>>>>Nyriss>>Meetra Surik>Traya>>Kreia>>>>Three Jedi Masters. 

Vader doesn't have scaling comparable to this.

He doesn't? How about:

• 18 BBY Vader > any Force presence Jax Pavon has ever felt. As a Jedi of the PT, Jax would've been around the top-tiers of that era at more than one point in his tenure.
  
• 18 BBY Vader moves faster than anyone Ferus has ever seen except for Yoda. Ferus was one of the most talented Jedi of his generation and Anakin's regular rival.
  
• 19 BBY Vader is far more powerful than Kar Vastor, who Mace Windu struggled against, according to Force sensitive Nick who had fought alongside Vastor for years.
  
• TFU Vader ragdolls Kota, who fights near-evenly with an early-game Galen Marek who could power-up to flight cruisers with short bursts of lightning, casually oneshot hundreds with TK, and later redirects a falling star destroyer (still likely before he had surpassed TFU Vader, let alone ANH Vader).
  
• TFUII Vader grabs Starkiller and tosses him "like a ragdoll" because he is "too powerful"; he later tanks like ~20 seconds of an enraged Starkiller's charged up Force lightning, while a few seconds of his lightning had earlier in the game powered a massive cannon that destroyed a star destroyer with a single hit.
  
• ANH Vader is "stronger" than Mustafar Vader according to at least one source.
  

Revan all rounds.

Revan all rounds.

Revan beats a sub Qui gon Jinn character, yeah.

The Ellimist wrote:

KingofBlades wrote:Revan Reborn>>>>>Nyriss>>Meetra Surik>Traya>>Kreia>>>>Three Jedi Masters. 

Vader doesn't have scaling comparable to this.

He doesn't? How about:

• 18 BBY Vader > any Force presence Jax Pavon has ever felt. As a Jedi of the PT, Jax would've been around the top-tiers of that era at more than one point in his tenure.
  
• 18 BBY Vader moves faster than anyone Ferus has ever seen except for Yoda. Ferus was one of the most talented Jedi of his generation and Anakin's regular rival.
  
• 19 BBY Vader is far more powerful than Kar Vastor, who Mace Windu struggled against, according to Force sensitive Nick who had fought alongside Vastor for years.
  
• TFU Vader ragdolls Kota, who fights near-evenly with an early-game Galen Marek who could power-up to flight cruisers with short bursts of lightning, casually oneshot hundreds with TK, and later redirects a falling star destroyer (still likely before he had surpassed TFU Vader, let alone ANH Vader).
  
• TFUII Vader grabs Starkiller and tosses him "like a ragdoll" because he is "too powerful"; he later tanks like ~20 seconds of an enraged Starkiller's charged up Force lightning, while a few seconds of his lightning had earlier in the game powered a massive cannon that destroyed a star destroyer with a single hit.
  
• ANH Vader is "stronger" than Mustafar Vader according to at least one source.
  

'
I think KoB was saying Vader doesn't have any *valid* scaling comparable.

The Ellimist wrote:

KingofBlades wrote:Revan Reborn>>>>>Nyriss>>Meetra Surik>Traya>>Kreia>>>>Three Jedi Masters. 

Vader doesn't have scaling comparable to this.

He doesn't? How about:

• 18 BBY Vader > any Force presence Jax Pavon has ever felt. As a Jedi of the PT, Jax would've been around the top-tiers of that era at more than one point in his tenure.
  
• 18 BBY Vader moves faster than anyone Ferus has ever seen except for Yoda. Ferus was one of the most talented Jedi of his generation and Anakin's regular rival.
  
• 19 BBY Vader is far more powerful than Kar Vastor, who Mace Windu struggled against, according to Force sensitive Nick who had fought alongside Vastor for years.
  
• TFU Vader ragdolls Kota, who fights near-evenly with an early-game Galen Marek who could power-up to flight cruisers with short bursts of lightning, casually oneshot hundreds with TK, and later redirects a falling star destroyer (still likely before he had surpassed TFU Vader, let alone ANH Vader).
  
• TFUII Vader grabs Starkiller and tosses him "like a ragdoll" because he is "too powerful"; he later tanks like ~20 seconds of an enraged Starkiller's charged up Force lightning, while a few seconds of his lightning had earlier in the game powered a massive cannon that destroyed a star destroyer with a single hit.
  
• ANH Vader is "stronger" than Mustafar Vader according to at least one source.
  

My scaling is demonstrably proven via combat.


Your first and third examples are opinions. Your second source doesn't mean much in terms of how combatively powerful Vader is considering a vastly pre prime Kenobi was able to move faster than any jedi in history. So these aren't nearly as solid as my scaling. 

Your fourth example is somewhat impressive but what makes Kota more impressive than the collective power of the three jedi Kreia one shotted(or even one of them for that matter)? Redirecting a falling ISD with the force of gravity helping you isn't all that impressive. Nihilus raised the Ravager out of Malachor and he was working against the force of gravity. Or how Exar Kun lifted a derriphan class battle ship the same way Nihlus did the ravager. While this ship is much smaller than an ISD it should be noted that the amount of force required to lift something is enormously larger than the force required to pull something. When you bring up how gravity is helping to reduce the force requirement you could make a good case that Exar Kun's feat is actually greater than Marek's. Revan Reborn is ridiculously more powerful than this version of Kun so he should be able to replicate the Vader tier feat with ease.


Your 5th point once again fails to prove much of anything. SK was ridiculously exhausted in this fight so Vader sharing any semblance of comparability with this version of SK is actually an anti feat for Vader. So Vader doesn't have parity with the SK who powered up the cannon.


Your 6th point is overridden by a G canon statement placing Vader below solidly below Ben Kenobi in force power(who doesn't experience any noticeable growth in his exile)


.

@KingofBlades 

Your 5th point once again fails to prove much of anything. SK was ridiculously exhausted in this fight so Vader sharing any semblance of comparability with this version of SK is actually an anti feat for Vader. So Vader doesn't have parity with the SK who powered up the cannon.

Correction: an exhausted Starkiller who was regaining energy by the second, and who for the majority of the first fight wasn't forced to go completely all-out, giving him ample time to recover much of his strength. SK's "exhaustion" is literally mentioned once, then never brought up again. It also has SK having a short inner monolgue, "passion stirring him to action", fighting Vader with complete single-focus (which allows him to ignore any lasting weariness despite his strength returning quite quickly), and even then Vader was extending the duel despite having the ability to put SK on the back foot more than once and even nearly kill him. All of this gave SK quite a bit of time to recover from his "exhaustion", which - again - isn't brought up even once after this point. 

Your 6th point is overridden by a G canon statement placing Vader below solidly below Ben Kenobi in force power(who doesn't experience any noticeable growth in his exile)

That quote is from a draft session for ESB. It's not an official statement by Lucas, only an insight into some of the ideas they were working under at the time. Plus, the quote literally says "maybe", indicating that it's not meant to be taken as a solid placement and more as a theory. Any real gap between them, if any, is small enough that Ben was unable to use the Force to even strain Vader's defences, even when Vader has him shoved up against the wall and nearly kills him. The quote also falls short when we see that Vader, an alleged four, was able to overpower Luke, a 2 with TK and throwing objects, indicating that he could have broken his barrier had he wanted to. Were this the case, Ben could and would have used his considerable Force advantage to dominate Vader...yet he didn't. Even when Vader was forcing him to retreat he didn't even try to use the Force.

PeraltaEagle45 wrote:This will be over as fast as Revan's fight with Nyriss.

Vader>>>Nyriss so no