Count Dooku Runs A Gauntlet

The blurb was subjective to the author's point of view. I concede the Surik argument tho, Ant showed me the light

How does Dooku stop at Plageuis? It is in good order and I think Caedus is more powerful than Mace imo

I said he could lose to Plagueis because of Plagueis' accolades and scaling off of novel Palpatine and even TPM Sidious, though I personally have Dooku slightly above Plagueis.

• He's described as the "most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived" on the publisher's blurb of the Plagueis hardcover, which would technically apply to Vitiate.
  

• Do you consider blurbs to be legit?
  
  

Blurbs shouldn’t count as canon, with that logic, people like Bane would be >> Revan.

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Blurbs shouldn’t count as canon, with that logic, people like Bane would be >> Revan.

Nah even if we take blurbs as canon that Bane quote is only referring to the brotherhood of darkness, not all sith to ever precede him.

Blurbs aren't reviewed by LFL and are considered subjective by Chee. Don't see why we should treat them as canon.

Dooku stands zero chance at beaing Plagueis.

NotAA3 wrote:Dies to Mace and Starkiller. Beats the rest.

Hideous. The guy that got thrown around by TFU Vader isn't getting close. Mace on the other hand is a good match, but he's ultimately inferior to Dooku in this matchup. Reasons why you think Mace wins?

The ordering made me 




As for Dooku vs these foes 

Darth Bane - He wins with moderate dif
Plageuis - Loses with moderate dif
Meetra - Stomps her
Starkiller - Wins barely
Mace Windu - Loses in a decent fight
Darth Caedus - Stomps him

@Meatpants

Hideous.

The guy that got thrown around by TFU Vader isn't getting close.

I think you'll find it was Galen doing the throwing:

The Force Unleashed Novelization wrote:Vader prepared for combat again. His power over the apprentice, however, was gone. His lightsaber went skittering and sparking across the floor, twisted out of his grip by telekinesis. The Force wrenched him into the air, as he had once lifted the apprentice's father, and a barrage of missiles struck at him with increasing strength. He raised his gloved hands to defend himself, but the battery continued.

Mace on the other hand is a good match, but he's ultimately inferior to Dooku in this matchup. Reasons why you think Mace wins?

If we assume that Mace's inner darkness increase in ROTS was a permanent boost which he can utilise against anyone then I don't see why he shouldn't be able to beat Dooku. If we assume it isn't then I agree Dooku wins.

So you posted a solid answer based on a possibility that you're not even certain about?

Where in my post do I indicate I'm not certain that the boost is permanent?



Also, please address the rest of my post.

NotAA3 wrote:Where in my post do I indicate I'm not certain that the boost is permanent?

Here?

If we assume that Mace's inner darkness increase in ROTS was a permanent boost which he can utilise against anyone then I don't see why he shouldn't be able to beat Dooku. If we assume it isn't then I agree Dooku wins.

You're toying with either scenario here, whereas your initial post was clearly in favor of a permanent boost when you said Mace wins flat.

NotAA3 wrote:Also, please address the rest of my post.

Cool, you cherry picked a quote of SK doing something to Vader.

Pre Shatterpoint Mace splits with Dooku, post wins

@Meatpants

Here?

If we assume that Mace's inner darkness increase in ROTS was a permanent boost which he can utilise against anyone then I don't see why he shouldn't be able to beat Dooku. If we assume it isn't then I agree Dooku wins.

Why does that indicate I'm not certain? I said if we assume that's the case then Mace wins... and I am assuming that's the case hence my initial comment. The reason I posted the alternative was to inform you that if you changed my opinion on Mace's boost against Sidious then you'd have me convinced Dooku>Mace.

You're toying with either scenario here, whereas your initial post was clearly in favor of a permanent boost when you said Mace wins flat.

Regardless of the above, am I not allowed to change my opinions on the fly?

Cool, you cherry picked a quote of SK doing something to Vader.

Provide contradictory evidence to prove SK can't ragdoll Vader... Because until you do your assertion that I am "cherry-picking" is entirely unsubstantiated.

NotAA3 wrote:Why does that indicate I'm not certain? I said if we assume that's the case then Mace wins... and I am assuming that's the case hence my initial comment. The reason I posted the alternative was to inform you that if you changed my opinion on Mace's boost against Sidious then you'd have me convinced Dooku>Mace.

It seems very wish-washy to make a solid "Mace wins" statement, but when pressed offer up that there's two legitimate assumptions that could change the outcome completely either way. So in reality, you don't actually think Mace wins; it depends on his power boost. Unless you're in favour of it being permanent?

NotAA3 wrote:Regardless of the above, am I not allowed to change my opinions on the fly?

No, not when you post that Mace wins flat without context, then when pressed say "well I can change my opinions, so, it could go either way lol".

NotAA3 wrote:Provide contradictory evidence to prove SK can't ragdoll Vader... Because until you do your assertion that I am "cherry-picking" is entirely unsubstantiated.

Stop trying to pick fights on this topic, I'm more than willing to converse with you on this in our debate. This part was merely an aside, my real qualm was with Windu being superior to Dooku.

@Meatpants

It seems very wish-washy to make a solid "Mace wins" statement, but when pressed offer up that there's two legitimate assumptions that could change the outcome completely either way. So in reality, you don't actually think Mace wins; it depends on his power boost. Unless you're in favour of it being permanent?

I am:

NotAA3 wrote:Where in my post do I indicate I'm not certain that the boost is permanent?

NotAA3 wrote:I said if we assume that's the case then Mace wins... and I am assuming that's the case hence my initial comment.

Both of these should indicate my obvious intention especially since this entire semantical debate has been you trying to prove that I'm somehow uncertain on the victor of this match when I've made my opinion very clear from the get-go... Which I've tried to make painstakingly obvious with the above comments. I only made that statement about Dooku winning if the boost isn't permanent, so you'd know what you have to convince me on to have me on #TeamDooku.

So, yes, for now, I am making a solid: "Mace wins" statement.

No, not when you post that Mace wins flat without context, then when pressed say "well I can change my opinions, so, it could go either way lol".

Nice, good to know I'm not allowed to change my opinions.

Stop trying to pick fights on this topic, I'm more than willing to converse with you on this in our debate. This part was merely an aside, my real qualm was with Windu being superior to Dooku.

Well, perhaps you shouldn't have mentioned it at all then, and if you really felt it was absolutely prudent that you do so you should have clarified that you didn't want me to respond in your initial post, or done so immediately in your follow up rather than abruptly dropping the topic without any clarification and then picking it up again. Now that you've actually written out a response regarding the subject this comment seems like a poor excuse for dodging away from a position that you can't actually defend.

Can you actually substantiate Mace's boost instead of tossing in an overcomplicated word salad to try and look like Ziggy or Nai?

Thanks

even base RoTS mace is a master of vaapad .
he would be able to utilize its advantages since dooku is a dark side user
(not to a degree he did against sidious but enough to hard press dooku and basically do what IH anakin did to tyranus
and since dookus lightning can´t bend sabers and he is not as fast as sidious he would not be able to counter maces ferocious strikes)
(this fight would look a lot like TPM jinn vs TPM maul:
in a sense they are almost equal in power overall and
dooku would be able to parry and fight back until his fatigue kicks in)

ROTS Mace's boost was permanent, actually. The darkness was stated to be present near the very beginning and was mentioned about half a dozen times following that before the fight. Vaapad just allowed him to fully harness his power growth and use it effectively.

It's also heavily implied that the darkness he used against Sidious manifested specifically in relation to the situation. I don't think there's sufficient evidence to suggest that some time before RotS Windu received this massive passive boost to his base self.

This gauntlet order is a mess. 

Wins vs Bane/Meetra without a doubt

I hesitantly say Dooku>Caedus though to be fair, I could be persuaded to support either in this matchup.

Loses vs Windu/Starkiller/Plagueis

Wow, people have some really low opinions of Dooku.

Meatpants wrote:Can you actually substantiate Mace's boost instead of tossing in an overcomplicated word salad to try and look like Ziggy or Nai?

Yeah. He started spamming Ziggy's signature gif too. What a plagiarist.

Stops at Plagueis.