Obi Wan vs Grevious-Obi Wan hype

Obi Wan was not completely focused when the droid General almost broke through his defenses

Remember this little scene:

Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks—sixteen per second, eighteen—until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense.

So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack.

-Revenge of the Sith

That is the precise moment he decides to attack, hence he easily beats Grevious then on.

But why? Why does he so easily beat Grevious? The clear answer is that he had yet to operate at maximum intensity



-Revenge of the Sith Movie Storybook

Not only that, this also confirms that he was on the verge of beating Grevious before the troops attacked.

Basically this gives extra knowledge on the battle, confirming that Obi Wan actually beat Grevious rather easily once you actually consider that he had yet to operate at his maximum when Grevious almost overloaded his defenses but ramped up the intensity at once once he did

Injured Grevious. Sorry dude, neat feat for Kenobi, but injured Grevious with shards in his lungs does not equate to prime, not to mention Kenobi was basically the only guy who could kill Grevious. Hell, I am not even sure if Yoda could deal with the General's assault, attacking him is practically suicide.

That's retconned by LoE

LOTL wrote:That's retconned by LoE

Yeah I've debated that with him on CV. The OCW ending fits the movie version of the fight, but in the novel there is no mention of Grieovus's coughing problems, which follows the continuity of LoE where Mace only duels him, not crushed his chest.

The same thing. More sources

Thus Obi Wan basically stomped him

This too, is a confirmation from the animation director of ROTS( something published in Insider and in the ROTS dvd commentary) that Obi Wan was more ruthless than ever before against Grevious

Thus Utapau Kenobi>IH Kenobi based just on effort level that he puts in. Obviously there are other pieces of evidence and scaling establishing a noticeable gap between them in terms of force power but that's not relevant here

-> season 7 kenobi:
gets stomped
-> rots kenobi
stomps

loool

Lol this is getting desperate now

*Grievous

ILS wrote:Lol this is getting desperate now

????

There is no indication that Obi-Wan was putting in sub-optimal effort against Grievous right up until the point he defeated him, at which precise moment he suddenly started trying and "stomped" him. This is the same BS as with A'Sharad Hett. You're attempting to bifurcate the entire fight from the precise moment Obi-Wan wins and then claim he "stomped" the opposition as soon as he started trying when, in reality, he was trying the entire time.

I mean, where is your evidence that Obi-Wan could have ended the fight against Grievous as soon as he "decided to attack", rather than using Occam's Razor to deduce that the opportunity to mount a counter-offensive wasn't available... until it was available. You know, like in every other fight, ever? The fact that you are being forced to scour obscure tertiary sources to support an idea that isn't made abundantly clear from the primary material is pretty clear evidence that this line of argumentation has no legs.

Up.

@ILS

There is no indication that Obi-Wan was putting in sub-optimal effort against Grievous right up until the point he defeated him, at which precise moment he suddenly started trying and "stomped" him.

Yeah, I don't care about your casual dismissal of the "facts" that are clearly evident here

Number one, these aren't "tertiary" sources. They are adaptations of the movie, which makes them "primary" sources, easily having more importance than your sourcebook or magazine because they expand on the context.

But let's look at the primary sources that satisfy you shall we?

After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet- swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters. Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks—sixteen per second, eighteen—until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack. A subtle shift in the angle of a single parry brought Obi-Wan's blade in contact not with the blade of the oncoming lightsaber, but with the handgrip. —slice—
The blade winked out of existence a hairbreadth before it would have burned through Obi-Wan's forehead. Half the severedlightsaber skittered away, along with the duranium thumb and first
finger of the hand that had held it.

Credit: Revenge of the Sith

So, Obi Wan's defense gets overloaded. He himself admits it is difficult to counter Grevious and that is when Grevious is at just 60% of his maximum capacity.

Yet, Obi Wan consciously chooses to go on the attack, and then let's see:

So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack. A subtle shift in the angle of a single parry brought Obi-Wan's blade in contact not with the blade of the oncoming lightsaber, but with the handgrip. —slice—
The blade winked out of existence a hairbreadth before it would have burned through Obi-Wan's forehead. Half the severedlightsaber skittered away, along with the duranium thumb and first
finger of the hand that had held it.

Grievous paused, eyes pulsing wide, then drawing narrow. He lifted his maimed hand and stared at the white-hot stumps that held now only half a useless lightsaber. Obi-Wan smiled at him.
Grievous lunged. Obi-Wan parried.
Pieces of lightsabers bounced on the durasteel deck.
Grievous looked down at the blade-sliced hunks of metal that were all he had left in his hands, then up at Obi-Wan's shining sky- colored blade, then down at his hands again, and then he seemed to suddenly remember that he had an urgent appointment somewhere else.
Anywhere else.

Credit: Revenge of the Sith

So, let's be clear, not only is Obi Wan literally tearing off Grevious's arms in "individual" parries, he is smiling. Utterly confident, whereas before, he was struggling to hold off Grevious who was 60% of his optimum capacity.

What a revolutionary idea that he focused his powers and began a counterattack, isn't it? Something literally stated in two primary sources that I just revealed, but no....

ILS's best counter to what are literally stated facts is:

I mean, where is your evidence that Obi-Wan could have ended the fight against Grievous as soon as he "decided to attack", rather than using Occam's Razor to deduce that the opportunity to mount a counter-offensive wasn't available... until it was available. You know, like in every other fight, ever? The fact that you are being forced to scour obscure tertiary sources to support an idea that isn't made abundantly clear from the primary material is pretty clear evidence that this line of argumentation has no legs.

Yeah, that was kind of the whole point of this thread. You know, to present evidence for an argument. I never explicitly made the argument before because it didn't have much solid evidence, but now it does

So lap it up:
https://i.servimg.com/u/f10/20/06/14/01/15562810.png
http://i.4pcdn.org/tv/1553814715798.jpg
http://i.4pcdn.org/tv/1553814777879.jpg
http://i.4pcdn.org/tv/1553814948971.jpg

Stated clearly, as clear as can be.

rather than using Occam's Razor to deduce that the opportunity to mount a counter-offensive wasn't available... until it was available. You know, like in every other fight, ever?

I don't care for your dreamworld theories. This as it happens is just wrong:

After all, he had often walked unscathed through hornet- swarms of blasterfire, defended only by the Force's direction of his blade; countering twelve blows per second was only difficult, not impossible. His blade wove an intricate web of angles and curves, never truly fast but always just fast enough, each motion of his lightsaber subtly interfering with three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters. Grievous, snarling fury, ramped up the intensity and velocity of his attacks—sixteen per second, eighteen—until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense. So Obi-Wan used his defense to attack. A subtle shift in the angle of a single parry brought Obi-Wan's blade in contact not with the blade of the oncoming lightsaber, but with the handgrip. —slice—
The blade winked out of existence a hairbreadth before it would have burned through Obi-Wan's forehead. Half the severedlightsaber skittered away, along with the duranium thumb and first
finger of the hand that had held it.

Credit: Revenge of the Sith

He made a conscious decision to switch to attack mode as soon as he noticed his defenses being overwhelmed. By the other two sources, we also know that this is the exact time he "focused his powers" and his immediate stompage of Grevious in the immediate next sequence is made clear. Thus the mystery behind him stomping Grevious immediately in the next sequence is also made clear.

That is, unless you are actually implying that the best chance for him to go on the attack was when his defenses were almost overwhelmed? The best opportunity? Because that's crazier than my craziest theory on steroids

This

"His defenses were being overwhelmed. Thus he chose to attack"

Is literally the opposite of what you are telling. Your words

rather than using Occam's Razor to deduce that the opportunity to mount a counter-offensive wasn't available... until it was available. You know, like in every other fight, ever?

Also your words

I mean, where is your evidence that Obi-Wan could have ended the fight against Grievous as soon as he "decided to attack", rather than using Occam's Razor to deduce that the opportunity to mount a counter-offensive wasn't available... until it was available. You know, like in every other fight, ever? The fact that you are being forced to scour obscure tertiary sources to support an idea that isn't made abundantly clear from the primary material is pretty clear evidence that this line of argumentation has no legs.

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy. Each and every one of my claims is clearly written, and reconciled in all sources unlike your theories on the quote.

What's your logic anyways in just dismissing primary sources anyways? You hilariously ask me for evidence when it is literally there in your screen, and just dismiss it. It is not my job to substantiate something already stated in multiple sources and well supported by the main primary source other than the movie, that is the job of the person who has a problem with the argument.

So yeah, that was the biggest ball of crap I have seen you produce, in well, a long time. This is something I would expect from AP on one of her more enthusiastic jaunts but not typically from you. That is till

This is the same BS as with A'Sharad Hett.

It just took two lines to get to the main reason behind these 7 lines of pure argumentative genius


But just for the record, it is hilarious that you accuse my theories of being just theories yet somehow they always turn out to be correct and supported by sources. I postulated these theories before the sources on them were discovered:

1. Obi Wan battles better alone than in a team

2. Obi Wan became more powerful than ever before on Mustafar

3. Obi Wan connected to the force better just in the middle of the battle with Grevious and then stomped him

All three theories turned out to be supported by sources. Maybe, just maybe, my interpretation of things actually has merit.

On the main topic-Unless you can provide solid evidence refuting the idea that Obi Wan did gather more power in the middle of his duel on Utapau( hint: you can't), I'd recommend to desist from mockery

Obi Wan connected to the force better just in the middle of the battle with Grevious and then stomped him wrote:

I don't see how "focusing his Jedi powers" implies he recieved a one-way permanet boost. By this logic anytime a Force user finds himself in a bad situation and comes out of it by "focusing" it must mean his connection to Force increased. Okay so Yoda was on the verge of being overpowerd by Sidious in their final lightning exchange but at the last second regains his conficence and turns it into a stalemate. Did Yoda just spontaniously recieve a permenate more powerful conneciton to the Force or did he just get a second wind?

How could you conclude that I meant that honestly?

Meatpants wrote:Up.

Very disappointing.

Incidentally, I am making good progress on my post, but unless you want me to leave my term exams, I won't be able to get it out for another week or so. Kenobi vs Jinn CaV

Don't know if the OP still believes in this position but I'm going to comment anyway.

Kenobi beat Grievous because he used his defence as an attack, via altering the angles of his lightsabers, it's stated clearly in the novel. If Kenobi stuck to purely defending after the tempo had risen to 20 strikes he would have been overwhelmed. 

sixteen per second, eighteen—until finally, at twenty strikes per second, he overloaded Obi-Wan's defense.

...

So, Obi Wan's defense gets overloaded. He himself admits it is difficult to counter Grevious and that is when Grevious is at just 60% of his maximum capacity.

Read the text again, Kenobi is only defending at this point, he didn't start countering until after he used his defence for attack. Grievous overloaded Kenobi's capacity to rely on his impenetrable defense, nothing in that passage implies he was incapable of counterattacking at this stage in the battle.

So, let's be clear, not only is Obi Wan literally tearing off Grevious's arms in "individual" parries, he is smiling. Utterly confident, whereas before, he was struggling to hold off Grevious who was 60% of his optimum capacity.

Turtling up  =/= Counterattacking and exploiting openings

What a revolutionary idea that he focused his powers and began a counterattack, isn't it?

He rallied himself after being hardpressed to defend the initial flurry. That doesn't mean he wasn't giving his all beforehand. It just means the battle was back and forth. Kenobi was already in his zen empty meditation state, going by the novel, no reason to believe he could have been more focused than that unless he lost some of it during the intial onslaught and needed to regain it through rallying himself.

The reason Kenobi couldn't stomp Grievous from the get-go despite taking time to gather himself before leaping down to challenge the general is that he needed Grievous too leave himself vulnerable by overcommitting his attack first and once his defense was overwhelmed he had no choice but to launch the counterattack, that's how Kenobi's style works, nothing mysterious about the shift in the tide from the novel's perspective.

Not sure why this is such a hot topic right now. Kenobi obviously beat Grievous, but that was purely because of his lightsaber form. Grievous even being able to overwhelm his defences is an achievement in itself. Obi-Wan out-manoeuvred him and had a form advantage that allowed him to win by - Siri pointed out - getting him to over-reach.

WalkingInCircles wrote:Not sure why this is such a hot topic right now. Kenobi obviously beat Grievous, but that was purely because of his lightsaber form. Grievous even being able to overwhelm his defences is an achievement in itself. Obi-Wan out-manoeuvred him and had a form advantage that allowed him to win by - Siri pointed out - getting him to over-reach.

Grievous is legit the only person that has overtly overpowered Kenobi’s defences

Is it so difficult to just scan a passage and take in the meaning people?