Qui-Gon vs RotS Kit Fisto & AotC Anakin

Team obviously, Fisto could arguably solo

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Meatpants wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

QuiGonDies wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Team for sure

Reasons?

I don't think Anakin or Kit would solo, but they both would give Jinn a lot of difficulty by themselves. The combined strength of the 2 definitely win tho. Anakin by this time was giving Dooku a solid fight, and Fisto has several good wins like defeating Grievous, AotC Kenobi, and smacking 3 Magna Guards(1 was enough to give RotS Kenobi trouble)

Anakin was rage amped when he was fighting Dooku.

Fisto being too fast for AotC Kenobi doesn't mean anything because Qui-Gon >> AotC Kenobi. Fisto only beats Grievous because context, in normal circumstances he'd get dominated.

Well if your saying that Fisto won because he was too fast for Kenobi then should he not be too fast for Jinn?(Since Kenobi is most likely faster then Jinn and since Jinn isn't very quick and agile in general)

What was the context on the fight with Grievous? Grievous was slightly injured? Cause if so, then I completely forgot until now, lol.

I should also note that Jinn's fighting style is not well suited for fighting multiple opponents. Look at his fights with Xanatos and the other Padawan for example. Qui Gon's lack of stamina, quickness, and mobility could also be a problem going against such fast and aggressive fighters like Fisto and Skywalker. He will probably be pressed the whole fight and either get overwhelmed or run out of stamina

Yes, Kenobi was faster than Qui-Gon in TPM, but so was Maul. Jinn can keep up with faster opponents. If he can keep up with Maul, who's an 8, he can certainly keep up with Fisto, a 7. Anakin is a 4 or a 5 in AotC according to Gillard, so speed isn't an issue here at all.

You're taking a sparring session with two Padawans and using that to argue that, in a serious life or death encounter, one of the greatest swordsmen in the history of the Jedi order couldn't handle two inferior opponents at once?

I think they are trolling meatpants. Though I would watch out arguing here. ILS is here, and if he feels like it, he may just debunk your Jinn wank

Try me.

AotC Anakin was stated by Gillard to be a seven. Which makes sense, because a tier five wouldn't have lasted as long as Anakin did against Dooku.

dark-sith123 wrote:AotC Anakin was stated by Gillard to be a seven. Which makes sense, because a tier five wouldn't have lasted as long as Anakin did against Dooku.

Isn't Savage a 5

dark-sith123 wrote:AotC Anakin was stated by Gillard to be a seven. Which makes sense, because a tier five wouldn't have lasted as long as Anakin did against Dooku.

Can I have a quote for that? Becaust Gillard says that by RotS, Anakin has gone up "four or five levels", indicating that, as a tier 8/9 duelist, he was level 4 or 5 in AotC. As for contending with Dooku, I've already shown via three quotes that Anakin was rage amped.

Regardless, Anakin's performance against Dooku in AotC isn't indicative of his base state, since he was fueled by his rage. At best, he would have done just about as well as Kenobi, but probably worse, in his base state.

In-sidiousvader wrote:I think they are trolling meatpants. Though I would watch out arguing here. ILS is here, and if he feels like it, he may just debunk your Jinn wank

Why would he debunk the hype of a character that directly props up Maul?

Some people here are saying Kit Fisto soloes, so it's time I debunked a lot of the unecessary hype/reputation Fisto has as a duelist and overall combatant. Jinn is easily, comfortably, above Kit Fisto even as of RotS. For starters, whatever accolades Fisto has, Qui-Gon has plus more. Let's have a look.

The Complete Visual Dictionary wrote:Most of the Jedi are deployed on distant worlds, but Mace manages to assemble a trio of celebrated swordmasters to assist him in arresting Palpatine: Agen Kolar, a Zabrak known among the Jedi to strike first and ask questions later; Saesee Tiin, a solitary Iktotchi who has never chosen a Padawan learner; and Kit Fisto, Nautolan master of Form 1 lightsaber technique, who distinguished himself on Geonosis and Mon Calamari, and who partnered Mace in battling Grievous on Coruscant.

Revenge of the Sith Novelisation wrote:"Anakin, why? The Masters are the best of the Order. What can you possibly do?"

--[Shaak Ti speaking to Anakin]

Revenge of the Sith Novelisation wrote:"I have chosen four of our best. Master Tiin, Master Kolar, and Master Fisto are all here, in the Temple. They are preparing already."

--[Windu talking to Yoda]

Revenge of the Sith Novelisation wrote:Now Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."

These quotes are widely peddled for Fisto, but are they really that special? He's labelled a "celebrated swordmaster", but so is Qui-Gon. Maul knows Qui-Gon by reputation as a "celebrated Jedi lightsaber Master", as shown in End Game as he relives the duel in meditation:

End Game wrote:Instead, in his eagerness to face off at last with a celebrated Jedi lightsaber Master, he had leapt into action …

Shaak-Ti's comment can be disregarded, since it's obviously not literal, consider Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda and Ki-Adi Mundi.

Windu says that Fisto is four of the Order's best, but Qui-Gon is also one of the best Jedi in the Order, it's not a particuarly noticeable achievement. Some quotes:

Mysteries of the Jedi wrote:Meet the most famous and powerful Jedi Knights of all time.

Star Wars Fact Files wrote:[Maul] succeeded in destroying one of the galaxy's greatest Jedi Knights.

Chronicles wrote:One of the greatest living Jedi Knights…

There's more than that, as you can see, Qui-Gon can match that as well. The last quote is from Kenobi, who muses Fisto to be one of the best swordsmen the Order had ever produced. However, again, Qui-Gon has more than one quote to match that:

Obi-Wan: Prima's Official Strategy Guide wrote:He's the most skilled of the Jedi warriors.

Star Wars: Episode 1 Game Manual wrote:He is one of the most skilled of the Jedi warriors.

The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Jinn was generally regarded as one of the best pure swordsmen the Order had ever seen.

TPM Novelisation wrote:Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi Order.

TPM Novelisation wrote:He was the best swordsman Obi-Wan had ever seen [...]

So, not only does Qui-Gon have matching accolades, he has even more than Fisto as a swordsman. There's just no way that Fisto has superior accolades. In terms of feats, it's arguably even worse for Fisto. The Grievous argument has been debunked for ages (cf. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/star-wars-misconceptions-kit-fisto-vs-general-grie/129533/) for more information. In a neutral setting, Fisto would be absolutely smashed by that iteration of Grievous, let alone prime Grievous.

Fisto's only other noticeable feat is being way too fast for AotC Kenobi, but Jinn being able to "match" Darth Maul, a far superior duelist to Fisto for well over half a minute without tiring is indicative that this wouldn't be a major issue for Qui-Gon. Furthermore, Fisto has been seen getting stomped by Ventress in Cestus Deception very early into the duel with a kick from his enemy. Ventress even laughs. Compare this to Jinn's duel on Tatooine, where Maul comes out being surprised at Qui-Gon's skill, calling him a worthy opponent and even bleeding, with his face "streaked with sweat". Or even the Naboo duel, where after Qui-Gon exhausts his force reserves in a final assault, Maul only "slowly" edges back into the fight, and it takes him a full twenty seconds in the movie to kill Qui-Gon, despite his opponent being utterly exhausted. Even then, he relies on a trick shot to put Jinn off-guard.

The comparison is pretty simple here, the accolades and feats speak for themselves. Fisto has been placed on a pedestal for a really long time, but whenever the time comes to defend him, the goods are never delivered. Qui-Gon is comfortably above Kit Fisto, and I'd invite you to prove me otherwise.

Anakin rolls him.

The two new(ly found) quotes mention naught about sustained level of rage throughout the fight... only a peak while he intercepted Dooku. Rage amp can, and has manifested itself in short bursts that allow Jedi to overcome a dire situation very very quickly. That Anakin, while on his arse, lightsaber deactivated and at more significant a distance can intercept Dooku, means there is likely some huge spike in his power for him to me so much faster than the Count in that moment. Nothing afterwards however. They're fight is portrayed as being intense, unlike Kenobi's who's some fraction above Qui Gon and laments his masters weaknesses which should be present in all fights.

Team wins in a good fight.

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

QuiGonDies wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:Team for sure

Reasons?

and smacking 3 Magna Guards(1 was enough to give RotS Kenobi trouble)

Kenobi literally fought one of Grievous's best Magnaguards. The ones Fisto fought where likely throwaways.

Also, I'm pretty sure Fisto had environmental advantages in that fight.

Point is, Fisto has no dueling feats to his name apart from being really fast relative to AotC Kenobi.

@ArkhamAsylum3 @TheNuisanceBird

I wouldn't call them throwaways given the novel constantly refers to them as Grievous's "elite". But yeah there were circumstances to Fisto's swift victory of the guards.

One is obviously Shi-Cho's advantage against multiple opponents, the other is the guards reliance of magnetism to state rooted to the mag-lev which hindered Grieovus and by logic should affect their mobility as well, whereas Fisto like Windu had full mobility, and lastly Fisto's style when taken to the maximum degree is unpredictable which as Dooku musses is one thing Grievous and the guards for all their sophisticated training and programing can't adapt to well.

All things consider it's still a great feat but it doesn't put him above Kenobi(not that anyone was arguing just sayin).

@Kilius

He's above AotC Kenobi anyway, but that's not THAT impressive in of itself.

the team.

Anakin solos.

Anakin soloes

Either solos