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- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 2:08 am
The quote I posted is perfectly applicable, as it isn't game mechanics at all. Per your own logic. Deciding for yourself what's valuable is a laughable double standard.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 2:09 am
I actually have no idea what you're talking about...
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 2:10 am
You claim that my source is game mechanics yet use the same source to claim Kun is sub Malak. Lmfao.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 2:14 am
In the Star Wars Miniatures Game, Bastila could be thought of as a second-tier Jedi. She's clearly not as capable as characters such as Mace Windu, Jedi Master; Yoda, Jedi Master; or Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter; but she's roughly on par with Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master or Darth Tyranus.
Interesting how you left out the first part of that quote (underlined). I guess you're famous for that though. It's also referring to game pieces, for example "Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter". The Malak > Kun quote is not in the same context as the above.
Interesting how you left out the first part of that quote (underlined). I guess you're famous for that though. It's also referring to game pieces, for example "Darth Vader, Jedi Hunter". The Malak > Kun quote is not in the same context as the above.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 2:28 am
The entire damn narrative of the Wizards of the Coast series is gameplay, lol. In fact, the article you use for Malak > Kun is from the description section about using him in the game. The actual Malak background description ends beforehand and a new paragraph begins, describing his biography and how to use him in the game:
Darth Malak: An Expanded Universe Character From Knights of the Old Republic wrote:Four millennia before the man called Palpatine became Emperor, Malak shone brightly as one of the greatest Jedi heroes. With his comrade Revan, he defeated the Mandalorians in a fierce war that rocked the Republic to its core. But the final victorious battle against the Mandalorians on the Galactic Rim changed the two Jedi. They both gave themselves to the Dark Side, and the newly rechristened Darth Revan and Darth Malak returned from the Outer Rim with a space fleet bent on conquering the galaxy.
Though Revan was the master to Malak's apprentice, the senior Sith Lord soon fell to treachery. Enraged by the death of his master, Darth Malak declared himself the Dark Lord of the Sith and renewed his campaign of hatred and bloodshed. At his disposal was a thousands-strong army of trained Sith conscripts and corrupted Dark Jedi, and a rumored alliance with the massive Czerka Corporation. Malak's Sith fleets were comprised of Republic defectors and a seemingly limitless supply of strange, alien battleships.
An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?
Darth Malak makes an excellent villain for a higher-level campaign set during the Golden Age of the Republic. And if the heroes expect to find him, they'll need to fight their way through the Sith. Once they reach Malak, he may face them with his own lightsaber or, if he feels the occasion calls for it, an ancient Sith sword recovered from ruins on Korriban.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 2:31 am
Except the statement in question isn't referring to gameplay in the same phrase/sentence, whereas yours clearly was (hence why you attempted to cut out the first section disingenously).
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 2:38 am
I didn't cut things out disingenuously, lmfao. Nice try on changing the topic though.
Don't try and wiggle your way out of the Bastila Shan quote when you don't dismiss the Malak quote on the basis of 'game mechanics'. Kek.
What's worse is that the article is twice outdated, firstly by his release in the Champions of the Force series:
Which was itself replaced entirely when the actual KotOR Campaign Guide came out:
Don't try and wiggle your way out of the Bastila Shan quote when you don't dismiss the Malak quote on the basis of 'game mechanics'. Kek.
What's worse is that the article is twice outdated, firstly by his release in the Champions of the Force series:
Champions of the Force Preview 5 wrote:Darth Malak: Four thousand years before the creation of the Empire, the Republic faced many enemies and endured many wars. When the Mandalorians attacked the Republic, the Jedi were split -- join the fighting or stay out of it?
Ultimately, two Jedi ignored the will of the Jedi Council and plunged into battle. Revan and Malak led the Republic forces; the former provided clever tactics, and the latter was relentless and reckless in combat. The two pursued their enemies into the Unknown Regions. They returned as Sith Lords backed by a huge military force from an unknown source.
Darth Malak started as an apprentice but soon became the master. With the Sith forces at his command, he tore through the Republic, razing entire planets. His success was short lived, however, and he fell to an unexpected enemy.
Which was itself replaced entirely when the actual KotOR Campaign Guide came out:
Knights of the Old Republic: Campaign Guide wrote:Darth Malak was not always a model Dark Lord. He was once a compassionate Jedi Knight. In fact, Republic citizens' sufferings so move the young Jedi Alex Squinquargesimus during the Mandalorian Wars that he rebels-along with his good friend Revan-against the Jedi Council's decree of inaction. The young Jedi helps recruit thousands of Jedi to spearhead the war against he Mandalorians, and they drive back the invaders. Yet sweeping victories correspond all too frequently with proportionately devastating moral compromises. Day by day, Alex perceives himself sliding toward the dark side, but sees no alternative. The horrors of war are not a mystery, and he knew he would face this dilemma.
Just as he intends, Alek saves the galaxy. Victorious against the Mandalorians, he realizes that all his efforts may be for naught if a strong hand does not steer the galaxy. In actuality, besides himself, he knows he can trust only the soldiers he had fought alongside, because they are capable defenders. Sharing these thoughts with Revan, Alek finds his brother-in-arms agrees.
Now Alex understands the dark side. It is named from ignorance: the ignorance of never having killed, or never having ordered friends to their deaths, of always thinking today is your day to die-all for wards, unwilling to fight for their own safety-and ignorance of what it means to wield so much power. Revan, or course, understands completely.
After the Mandalorian Wars, Alek and Revan subsume themselves in Korriban and Malachor V's Sith occultism and use the Star Forge super weapon to churn out war material almost limitless. Alek then becomes Darth Malak of the remade Sith Empire, apprentice to Darth Revan. The Republic conquest initially goes well, but in time, Malak ses Lord Revan as soft, resulting in a tension that culminates in a lightsaber duel; Malak loses his lower jaw to Revan's blade, necessitating a metallic jaw guard. Returning the favor, Malak fires on Revan's flagship. Unaware that the Jedi have captured the traitor, Malak assumes the crown of ruling Dark Lord, inheriting the empire. With Admiral Saul Karath, Malak's fleet spreads terror and he cultivates Darth Bandon and Bastila Shan as his pupils. However, Malak faces Revan again, this time as a reconditioned Jedi. In the rematch, Malak's twisted dream of protecting the galaxy dies with him.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 3:44 am
Yes you did, you omitted the first part of the sentence that places the subject as pertaining to game mechanics.
I don't care if there's updated sections, quotes don't phase out unless contradicted. The new sections do not even mention/contradict the statement. You're the one wriggling here.
I don't care if there's updated sections, quotes don't phase out unless contradicted. The new sections do not even mention/contradict the statement. You're the one wriggling here.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 3:48 am
That quote is used all over the place, everyone has omitted it since that came to light.
You do know that new versions of sources replace the old ones, right? Like The Essential Chronology was replaced and thus rendered outdated by The New Essential Chronology. That's how it has worked since forever.
You do know that new versions of sources replace the old ones, right? Like The Essential Chronology was replaced and thus rendered outdated by The New Essential Chronology. That's how it has worked since forever.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 3:53 am
LadyKulvax wrote:That quote is used all over the place, everyone has omitted it since that came to light.
Fair enough, but the sentence is clearly pertaining to the mechanics of the game, so it can be discarded all the same.
LadyKulvax wrote:You do know that new versions of sources replace the old ones, right? Like The Essential Chronology was replaced and thus rendered outdated by The New Essential Chronology. That's how it has worked since forever.
I don't see many here who discard quotes when there's no contradiction in the new material.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 4:12 am
Except that the entire Wizards of the Coast series can be dismissed on the basis of a gameplay narrative.
It's not discarding, it's losing value given that the source in question has been revised since. In this case, twice.
It's not discarding, it's losing value given that the source in question has been revised since. In this case, twice.
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 5:52 am
DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Kenobi wrecks all rounds.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 12th 2019, 8:40 am
Said no comparison ever.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 16th 2019, 7:44 am
LadyKulvax wrote:Except that the entire Wizards of the Coast series can be dismissed on the basis of a gameplay narrative.
No... some quotes are referring specificallyt to gameplay mechanics; where others are bibliographal in nature. Hence why bio's in Prima Guides are useable, for example.
LadyKulvax wrote:It's not discarding, it's losing value given that the source in question has been revised since. In this case, twice.
Again, it's not good practice to throw out a quote when it hasn't been explicitly contradicted.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Obi Wan vs Darth Traya
August 16th 2019, 8:00 am
1.I don't need that explained to me. It's not my point here at all, Wizards as a whole is entirely based on non-canon 'what-ifs'. The narrative in and of itself is not even supposed to be taken seriously. I'd put infinitely greater worth on the blurbs that wank Plagueis and Caedus, yet I don't value them as definitive, indisputable canon. Not when the people with actual authority don't. Tagg and Binks is also LucasFilm licensed, that doesn't mean Darth Plagueis is planetary.Meatpants wrote:LadyKulvax wrote:Except that the entire Wizards of the Coast series can be dismissed on the basis of a gameplay narrative.
No... some quotes are referring specificallyt to gameplay mechanics; where others are bibliographal in nature. Hence why bio's in Prima Guides are useable, for example.LadyKulvax wrote:It's not discarding, it's losing value given that the source in question has been revised since. In this case, twice.
Again, it's not good practice to throw out a quote when it hasn't been explicitly contradicted.
2.If something is made redundant by a newer source, it is by its nature, less valuable a source of objective truth. That's not difficult to implement.
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