The Death of Blurbs

Latham2000 wrote:lorenzo.r.2nd

yes, him.

Mysteryman06 wrote:So none of this Plagueis>Valkorion crap is true? Thank god

The plag quote only included Sith. Most Valk fans never considered him a Sith anyway, so this doesn't really change anything with regards to that. Plag is still relative to TPM Sidious in power, who is already reaching near GOAT status in terms of Sith.

HeartoftheForce wrote:Yeah but Bane > Valk still counts because it was posted on the site.

doing God's work HotF

HeartoftheForce wrote:Yeah but Bane > Valk still counts because it was posted on the site.

And discarded afterwards. In any case, from where Darth Bane gained more knowledge and mastery of Sith techniques? From the Sith Holocron of Darth Revan to be precise, and he clearly admitted this:

Revan had discovered many of the rituals of the ancient Sith, and as the Holocron’s avatar explained their nature and purpose, Bane could barely wrap his mind around their awesome potential. Some of the rituals were so terrible-so dangerous to attempt, even for a true Sith Master-that he doubted he would ever dare to use them. - From (Star Wars: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction)

- and manipulated Lord Kaan into excluding him from involvement in the ritual of Thought Bomb with his peers because the plan was to purge the Brotherhood and enact Rule of Two - and not die with the rest. Therefore, let us stick with established facts....

S_W_LeGenD wrote:Revan had discovered many of the rituals of the ancient Sith, and as the Holocron’s avatar explained their nature and purpose, Bane could barely wrap his mind around their awesome potential. Some of the rituals were so terrible-so dangerous to attempt, even for a true Sith Master-that he doubted he would ever dare to use them. - From (Star Wars: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction)

The Fact File would likely be referring to prime Bane, which would know much more than at the time he mentioned these rituals.

Also, the quote implies that he feared to perform any of the rituals due to their dangerous nature. The quote does not display that Bane didn't know how to perform it.

VictreebelVictr wrote:

S_W_LeGenD wrote:Revan had discovered many of the rituals of the ancient Sith, and as the Holocron’s avatar explained their nature and purpose, Bane could barely wrap his mind around their awesome potential. Some of the rituals were so terrible-so dangerous to attempt, even for a true Sith Master-that he doubted he would ever dare to use them. - From (Star Wars: Darth Bane: Path of Destruction)

The Fact File would likely be referring to prime Bane, which would know much more than at the time he mentioned these rituals.

Also, the quote implies that he feared to perform any of the rituals due to their dangerous nature. The quote does not display that Bane didn't know how to perform it.

The statement in question also contain this part: "He used that knowledge and skill to change the Sith Order forever." This happened in Path of Destruction. The Sith Holocron of Darth Revan was the most significant find for him at the time and it enabled him to change the Sith Order forever as mentioned. Darth Bane destroyed this Sith Holocron after documenting its contents, and admitted that he wouldn't tap some of its contents due to perceived risks - his limitation.

Darth Bane retrieved Sith Holocrons of Freedon Nadd next and Darth Andeddu afterwards. His apprentice Darth Zannah benefited from the Sith Holocron of Freedon Nadd more than him TBH. He did glean the technique of Transfer Life from the Sith Holocron of Darth Andeddu but attempted to use it in a way in which he had no shot at succeeding (versus Darth Zannah); not sure if his sacrifice was intentional in the spirit of Rule of Two. However, some of the Bannite Sith did not succeed their respective mentors in all fairness. All said and done, the assertion that Darth Bane gained more knowledge and mastery of Sith techniques than anyone who had come before is patently FALSE and cannot be taken seriously. He did not had resources of an Empire at his disposal or such. There wasn't much that survived up to his time anyways due to destruction of numerous knowledge bases and artifacts in conflicts in passing years, and his limitations prevented him from capitalizing on the contents at his disposal to maximum effect. By the time he accessed Sith Holocron of Darth Andeddu, he was lacking in patience and time to glean much from it but one technique; Set Harth benefited from this Sith Holocron on the other hand because he had patience and time.

I_Like_Chee wrote:

KingKopecz wrote:

Mysteryman06 wrote:So none of this Plagueis>Valkorion crap is true? Thank god

Nope we still have this:

Darth Plagueis wrote:Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn't master through an effort of will. If a Sith of equal power had preceded him, then that one had taken his or her secrets to the grave, or had locked them away in holocrons that had been destroyed or had yet to surface.

Though neither this or the blurb bind Valkorion anyway since he's not a Sith. They only bind Vitiate 

...but Plagueis recognises this testament is based on limited knowledge, and that some Sith could be above him, but if they were he has no proof of such because the records proving such have been destroyed. In order for this quote to hold true, you need to prove Plagueis had extensive knowledge of Vitiate and other TOR Sith, but that seems doubtful given that most PT accounts of history aren't even aware The Great Galactic War happened - let alone aware of the specific details of it.

Well Plagueis had good knowledge of prior Sith and was very aware of Vitiate. He’s also around the same level as TPM Sidious who’s the most powerful Sith in history so there seems to be 2 sources stating Plagueis > Vitiate while 0 staring the opposite.

What we make of this?

Chee is indicating that in terms of spoilers and possible story contradictions the material is checked. In terms of power levels the blurbs and such are not cleared as stated outright in the first screenshot. Likely due to marketing reasons and such as they would want to hype certain events and character beyond their means to get more interest.

Thus they are not tracked or given any weight in the holocron.

HeartoftheForce wrote:Chee is indicating that in terms of spoilers and possible story contradictions the material is checked. In terms of power levels the blurbs and such are not cleared as stated outright in the first screenshot. Likely due to marketing reasons and such as they would want to hype certain events and character beyond their means to get more interest.

Thus they are not tracked or given any weight in the holocron.

I see. Also what blurb places Bane above Valk? lmao

KingKopecz wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:Chee is indicating that in terms of spoilers and possible story contradictions the material is checked. In terms of power levels the blurbs and such are not cleared as stated outright in the first screenshot. Likely due to marketing reasons and such as they would want to hype certain events and character beyond their means to get more interest.

Thus they are not tracked or given any weight in the holocron.

I see. Also what blurb places Bane above Valk? lmao

The Path of Destruction blurb they posted to hype the novel of course 

Once the Sith Order teemed with followers. But their rivalries divided them in endless battles for supremacy. Until one dark lord at last united the Sith in the quest to enslave the galaxy—and exterminate the Jedi. Yet it would fall to another, far more powerful than the entire Brotherhood of Darkness, to ultimately realize the full potential of the Sith, and wield the awesome power of the dark side as never before.

And in case it isn't obvious. Yes I am joking. Blurbs have been bunk for awhile now.

Kas'im > Revan confirmed

@KingKopecz

Well Plagueis had good knowledge of prior Sith

This is irrelevant to his knowledge of Vitiate. There are plenty of PT accounts that have extensive knowledge of prior Sith, yet they're completely unaware of Vitiate's existence.

and was very aware of Vitiate.

"Very aware" is a stretch. He knew Vitiate existed, but we don't really have details on his knowledge beyond that. However, while we may not have the specific details, we can make reasonable inferences, and the fact that so many PT sources are unaware of The Great Galactic War altogether means that it's very likely Plagueis's knowledge is limited. Unless you have proof of the extra-ordinary claim, we should defer to the more probable one, and in this case, that favours my argument.

He’s also around the same level as TPM Sidious who’s the most powerful Sith in history so there seems to be 2 sources stating Plagueis > Vitiate while 0 staring the opposite.

Sidious has no OOU supremacy quotes circa TPM that aren't from DK Readers - the same source that claims the Sith began with Darth Ruin, and that Plagueis died decades before TPM - and his IU declaration of supremacy would be subject to the same fallability as Plagueis's - as they have virtually the same knowledge. 2 sources IU stating the same thing doesn't strengthen the claim when they're both subject to the exact same lack of knowledge - i.e. the same rebuttal applies to both quotes.

---

This is, of course, obviously not even factoring in the fact that Plagueis and Sidious's quotes are probably skewed very much by bias towards themselves - they're both incredibly arrogant Sith - which provides yet another reason for dismissal.

KingKopecz wrote:
Well Plagueis had good knowledge of prior Sith and was very aware of Vitiate. He’s also around the same level as TPM Sidious who’s the most powerful Sith in history so there seems to be 2 sources stating Plagueis > Vitiate while 0 staring the opposite.

Actually no - his knowledge of Emperor Vitiate is massively limited and misconstrued. He knew that Emperor Vitiate lived for a thousand years but he assumed that Emperor Vitiate became a Force spirit like other Sith Lords and was not reaching out and offering guidance to those who were looking forward to extend their lives.  

Palpatine was able to retrace archives of Darth Malgus but his knowledge of Emperor Vitiate remained massively limited. The Historian Committee of his time conceded that the archives are incomplete:



From Star Wars: Force and Destiny: Core Rulebook

Their recollections of Revan and Malak (and more) is much different from what is disclosed in SWTOR.

The New Republic historians admitted in their works that Palpatine purged thousands of years of records from the galactic archives - they were able to recover a respectable amount of lost knowledge but their recollections on hand suggest that they do not know anything about Emperor Vitiate and the true Sith. The archives remain incomplete in their times as well.

Sidious has no OOU supremacy quotes circa TPM that aren't from DK Readers - the same source that claims the Sith began with Darth Ruin, and that Plagueis died decades before TPM - and his IU declaration of supremacy would be subject to the same fallability as Plagueis's - as they have virtually the same knowledge. 2 sources IU stating the same thing doesn't strengthen the claim when they're both subject to the exact same lack of knowledge - i.e. the same rebuttal applies to both quotes.

Doesn't change much, there's nothing that indicates he grew much up to ROTS.

@SnowxElf

Doesn't change much, there's nothing that indicates he grew much up to ROTS.

He literally gets a massive boost immediately after killing Plagueis, has several quotes saying his power was growing across The Clone Wars, and is implied to have increased massively from Order 66. This is also ignoring the fact that ROTS Sidious's supremacy over Vitiate is likewise heavily debatable, due to the dating of the quotes.

Sheev might have grown significantly after immediately killing Plag, but Plag was extremely weakened when Sidious killed him, despite this, Plag still was capable of utilizing MM to make himself immune to an all-out Sheev's lightning. Plag was so weak in fact that when he tried to TK attack Sidious all he did was slightly move objects around in the room. The fact he Plag was able to do this indicates that at base level he's well superior to Palpatine because when he was laughably weak he was still capable of resisting one of Sheev's attacks. So this kind of counter balances Sheev's immediate growth. James Luceno stated that pre-boost Sheev was < Plag. This is also implied in the novel.

is implied to have increased massively from Order 66

?

SnowxElf wrote:Sheev might have grown significantly after immediately killing Plag, but Plag was extremely weakened when Sidious killed him, despite this, Plag still was capable of utilizing MM to make himself immune to an all-out Sheev's lightning. Plag was so weak in fact that when he tried to TK attack Sidious all he did was slightly move objects around in the room. The fact he Plag was able to do this indicates that at base level he's well superior to Palpatine because when he was laughably weak he was still capable of resisting one of Sheev's attacks. So this kind of counter balances Sheev's immediate growth. James Luceno stated that pre-boost Sheev was < Plag. This is also implied in the novel.

is implied to have increased massively from Order 66

?

Palps already has a GoaT quote prior to Hego's death. So he is more powerful. James also sated that Hego "may" have found a way to undermine Palpatine. indicating that it was only possible that Hego could beat Palps and even the it was by undermining him not by being more powerful.

So no Hego likely loses to pre-boost Palps and gets crushed by post boost. Palps is then confirmed to constantly grow more powerful up to RotS. 

Plageuis is not touching RotS Palps.

Palps already has a GoaT quote prior to Hego's death. So he is more powerful. James also sated that Hego "may" have found a way to undermine Palpatine. indicating that it was only possible that Hego could beat Palps and even the it was by undermining him not by being more powerful.

 
It seems people are finding out that these are not legit but I don't know all the details.

SnowxElf wrote:

Palps already has a GoaT quote prior to Hego's death. So he is more powerful. James also sated that Hego "may" have found a way to undermine Palpatine. indicating that it was only possible that Hego could beat Palps and even the it was by undermining him not by being more powerful.

 
It seems people are finding out that these are not legit.

Near as I can tell the whining boils down to their being an error in one of the other books. Which if that’s their standard they’re going to be throwing out a lot of sources if they intend to be consistent.

But they don’t.