7th Sister + 5th Brother Vs Prime Kanan Jarrus

-Kanan does not have access to his psuedo oneness feat he achieved at the fuel depot


If kanan loses the fight, add Prime ezra

Kanan. Even without the Oneness thing - that only kicked in partway through the explosion feat - he's still significantly more powerful, skilled and experienced than his former S2 self who was superior or a match for either of the duo.

BreakofDawn wrote:Kanan. Even without the Oneness thing - that only kicked in partway through the explosion feat - he's still significantly more powerful, skilled and experienced than his former S2 self who was superior or a match for either of the duo.

Pretty much this. Throw in Ezra it's overkill.

Fake ass Rahm Kota dies

Either Inquisitor could solo with high diff.

Kanan gets smashed with them together.

This duo got stomped by Rebels Ahsoka, Kanan might be able to put up a fight or perhaps take one of them out but I doubt he would win overall

Kanan vs Caedus

im really surpised here to see people holding kanan's prime below either of these two, when on multiple separate occasions he was dueling evenly with one or the other. Is there some reason to hold kanan below Either of these two individually that im just unaware of?

Kanan's abilities were greatly improved after his blinding, due to his heavy reliance on the Force after that point. We already see in Season 2 that Kanan was superior to the 5th Brother and the 7th Sister when one-on-one. Given his substantial growth following his blinding, I can see Kanan taking this, though it definitely wouldn't be with the same level of ease that Ahsoka managed it back in Season 2.

^ Agreed. There's also nothing suggesting that his saber skills stopped developing or declined.

There’s nothing suggesting they increased in any significant way afterwards either.

It's likely that he didn't stop training with Ezra and by the time he trashed Sabine he was visibly toying around with Makashi which he hadn't done before so I'd say there's a good chance he continued developing in this area at least somewhat.

Kanan grew significantly stronger in the Force, started believing in himself and his abilities (including his aptitude with a lightsaber) and toyed with someone who a few days later went on to defeat Gar Saxon in CQC. He definitely improved and is noted to be at his peak as of S3.

There's no chance either Inquisitor can solo. Not only is he a better swordsman, but he's significantly more powerful than his former S2 self.

Zero evidence he’s significantly more powerful.

Gar Saxons only feats are killing fodder.

HeartoftheForce wrote:Zero evidence he’s significantly more powerful.

Gar Saxons only feats are killing fodder.

He's outright said to be more powerful than before, as well as drawing on the Force more deeply than before.

BreakofDawn wrote:

HeartoftheForce wrote:Zero evidence he’s significantly more powerful.

Gar Saxons only feats are killing fodder.

He's outright said to be more powerful than before, as well as drawing on the Force more deeply than before.

Oh? And where is this.

And don’t post the fan written blog on SW.com.

HeartoftheForce wrote:Zero evidence he’s significantly more powerful.

Gar Saxons only feats are killing fodder.

We're flat-out told in Season 2 of Rebels that the Jedi are growing in power.

“The Jedi are growing in their power.”

“It will be their undoing.”

This is after Ezra and Kanan fight the 5th Brother and 7th Sister on Oosalon (the stormy planet in the episode where Kanan, Ezra, and Ahsoka go to the Lothal temple). During the battle on Oosalon, we can plainly see that Kanan is more skilled than the 5th Brother, and the only reason the 7th Sister has any advantage is because her droid intervenes.

After the episode where we're outright told the Jedi are growing in power, we get an episode where we see an intense training session between Kanan and Ezra, where the rest of the Ghost crew acknowledges their progress. Further evidence that Kanan had grown from a time period where he displayed superiority to both the 5th Brother and 7th Sister individually.

The Rebels Magazine also shows a fight between Kanan and the 5th Brother, where Kanan rather decisively defeats the 5th Brother with telekinetically thrown ice, while simultaneously crossing blades with the inquisitor.

Then of course, we get Malachor, where Ezra is outdueling the 7th Sister. We know Kanan at this point is still superior to Ezra, due to Maul's comment about how the pairs should split up (Ezra and Maul are paired together in order to pair the weakest member of the group with arguably the strongest). More evidence Kanan is superior to either member of the Inquisitors individually, before he is even blinded.


After Kanan's blinding, and his training under the Bendu, we're told that Kanan "was forced to rely on the Force more deeply than ever before," and that "his sight returns. Stronger. Clearer. Different. Kanan attains a balance in this episode that never again leaves him." At which point he is stated to arguably be at the pinnacle of his skills.

We can also see Kanan immobilize an enraged Ezra with the Force in the episode Visions and Voices (Ezra has constantly been described as remarkably strong in the Force, and Ezra is explicitly said to have grown more powerful between the end of Season 2 and the beginning of Season 3), casually redirected a PLEX missile in the episode Hera's Heroes, and he kept a several-ton stone bridge suspended for over 40 seconds in Ghosts of Geonosis, after which he performs the largest Force leap he's executed in the series. All of these are among his best Force feats (not counting his moment of oneness at the end of the series), and they all happened in Season 3.


In conclusion, whether you're looking at feats, in-universe statements, or out-of-universe statements, Kanan clearly grew after his blinding. Now, whether his growth was enough for him to defeat both the 5th Brother and 7th Sister at once, I'd say that's still up for a fair debate. But you're claim that there's "zero evidence" is clearly false.

@Underachiever599
We're flat-out told in Season 2 of Rebels that the Jedi are growing in power.

Based on the Inquisitors PoV when all they had done was enter the temple and fight the GI specter. They're likely assuming the Jedi summoned him. This is very clearly not the case. 

This is after Ezra and Kanan fight the 5th Brother and 7th Sister on Oosalon (the stormy planet in the episode where Kanan, Ezra, and Ahsoka go to the Lothal temple). During the battle on Oosalon, we can plainly see that Kanan is more skilled than the 5th Brother, and the only reason the 7th Sister has any advantage is because her droid intervenes. 

I fail to see how the battle shows Kanan being superior to the Fifth. Who had him retreating near the entire time. 

After the episode where we're outright told the Jedi are growing in power, we get an episode where we see an intense training session between Kanan and Ezra, where the rest of the Ghost crew acknowledges their progress. Further evidence that Kanan had grown from a time period where he displayed superiority to both the 5th Brother and 7th Sister individually. 

While they may have progressed it is by no means is a great increase. Filoni has classified both Ezra and Kanan as "level 5" at both the begining and end of S2. So the idea of them grwoing vastly is just wrong. 

Even then there's a very strong case of the inquisitors improving as well. Seeing as the Fifth goes from being oneshot by Ahsoka to dueling her evenly for a 2 minutes. And no Nexus' do not exist in canon. He just straight fought her. 

Then of course, we get Malachor, where Ezra is outdueling the 7th Sister.

Ezra dueled her for about 10 seconds. He was calling on the dark side as per Maul and the total of his success was pushing her back in one bladelock. If that's you're gauge for success then Seventh was outdueling Maul as she accomplished the same against him. 

After Kanan's blinding, and his training under the Bendu, we're told that Kanan "was forced to rely on the Force more deeply than ever before," and that "his sight returns. Stronger. Clearer. Different. Kanan attains a balance in this episode that never again leaves him." At which point he is stated to arguably be at the pinnacle of his skills. 

All of these statements are from a blog post on SW.com written by their Social Media Manager. Not any actual canon source. Next.

We can also see Kanan immobilize an enraged Ezra with the Force in the episode Visions and Voices (Ezra has constantly been described as remarkably strong in the Force, and Ezra is explicitly said to have grown more powerful between the end of Season 2 and the beginning of Season 3)

Passive force barriers don't exist in canon. So all Kanan did was the equivalent of stopping a Stormtrooper mid swing. It required no more particular power than against anyone else. Even Matt Martin has chimed in and this and confirmed they don't play a part. 

casually redirected a PLEX missile in the episode Hera's Heroes, and he kept a several-ton stone bridge suspended for over 40 seconds in Ghosts of Geonosis, after which he performs the largest Force leap he's executed in the series. All of these are among his best Force feats (not counting his moment of oneness at the end of the series), and they all happened in Season 3. 

The missile is a simple force push. I fail to see how that's above anything else he's done. 

I also fail to see how the Geonosis bridge feat is any better than the "giant" catwalk he lifted to save Hera when they first met. Likewise the force leap is not that far. 



Considering the distance, here's S1E1 Ezra doing something similar for the leap.



Again this if anything is evidence he stagnated or that his stuff with Bendu only restored his connection. Not increased it.

@HeartoftheForce

Based on the Inquisitors PoV when all they had done was enter the temple and fight the GI specter. They're likely assuming the Jedi summoned him. This is very clearly not the case.

So, what? You’re just going to ignore the fact that the 5th Brother and 7th Sister are capable of using the Force to sense their opponents? They would be able to tell that the characters are growing in power. And the fact that Vader acknowledges this is further proof to support their statement. This isn’t the only time the 5th Brother and 7th Sister mention the Jedi’s growth, either. That Rebels Magazine comic I mentioned earlier also has the Inquisitors remarking on the characters’ growth.

I fail to see how the battle shows Kanan being superior to the Fifth. Who had him retreating near the entire time.

Then you need to rewatch the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2aL5dRWQIs

First, I want to mention Kanan’s primary style is Soresu. Meaning his whole fighting style is typically based around fighting defensively, giving ground, and finding the opportune moments to strike back.

Second, from 0:16 to 0:31 in that video, Kanan is actually the one pressuring the 5th Brother back, and only trades places with Ezra after he has staggered the 5th Brother, and because Ezra is struggling against the 7th Sister (who is the superior duelist of the two Inquisitors). From 0:37 to 0:50, Kanan and the 7th Sister appear relatively even, though admittedly most of it is just a lightsaber bind. It’s only when the 7th Sister’s droid interferes that there’s any advantage to be had. Even with Kanan dropped to the ground at the edge of a cliff, however, Kanan is able to stagger the 5th Brother with a single swing of his lightsaber at 1:41. From 1:53 onward, Kanan is repeatedly shown making the 5th Brother stumble with his strikes, until Ezra is the one who initiates the retreat (again, because Ezra is outmatched in this encounter).

So no, the 5th Brother did not have Kanan “retreating near the entire time.” Kanan repeatedly displayed superiority to the 5th Brother, was only really endangered when the 7th Sister’s droid interfered while he was engaged in a bladelock with her, and Kanan and Ezra only retreated because Ezra was the weak link in the encounter and couldn’t hold his own against the 7th Sister.

While they may have progressed it is by no means is a great increase. Filoni has classified both Ezra and Kanan as "level 5" at both the begining and end of S2. So the idea of them grwoing vastly is just wrong.

I see you’re just outright ignoring my example of Kanan beating the 5th Brother fair and square.

Also, Filoni’s level system is unquantifiable. We don’t know how he determines the levels, or if he even really gives them any serious thought, or if they’re simply a way for him to convey a rough idea. Just because the characters are still “level 5” to Filoni doesn’t really tell us much. All it really tells us is that the characters are still no match for Darth Vader, which is obvious from simply watching the show.

Even then there's a very strong case of the inquisitors improving as well. Seeing as the Fifth goes from being oneshot by Ahsoka to dueling her evenly for a 2 minutes. And no Nexus' do not exist in canon. He just straight fought her.

Here, you’re just outright wrong. Vergences, or nexuses, do exist in canon. They’ve been explicitly mentioned in several canon sources, such as the 2017 Darth Vader comic and the Rise of Skywalker Visual Dictionary. And yes, Malachor is one such nexus. This was the behind-the-scenes reason given for why the Inquisitors could suddenly fly. I don’t recall if it was Pablo Hidalgo or Henry Gilroy who confirmed it in a Rebels Recon, and it’s 4am when I’m typing this up and I don’t particularly care to dig through all the Rebels Recons to confirm it at the moment, but I can verify this for you tomorrow if you still doubt it.

Ezra dueled her for about 10 seconds. He was calling on the dark side as per Maul and the total of his success was pushing her back in one bladelock. If that's you're gauge for success then Seventh was outdueling Maul as she accomplished the same against him.

We see at least 5 strikes exchanged on-screen, and can hear several more happen off-screen, the end result of which is the 7th Sister stumbling backward, clearly off-balanced. Yes, Ezra was calling on the dark side, but this doesn’t detract from the fact that Ezra clearly had the upper hand from what little combat we saw. Just because it was a short duel doesn’t mean that Ezra didn’t have a clear advantage.

All of these statements are from a blog post on SW.com written by their Social Media Manager. Not any actual canon source. Next.

I’m sorry, what? You’re argument is that because something was written by the social media strategist (not manager), it shouldn’t count? Rebels Revisited is still an official episode guide, officially published on the official Star Wars website. I don’t see how this source is any less canon than any of the sources people pull from the magazines. It’s all officially published content. Just because it’s in blog form doesn’t mean it’s any less valid as a source, especially when it’s not contradicted by any other sources.

Passive force barriers don't exist in canon. So all Kanan did was the equivalent of stopping a Stormtrooper mid swing. It required no more particular power than against anyone else. Even Matt Martin has chimed in and this and confirmed they don't play a part.

Source on Matt Martin claiming force barriers don’t exist in canon? We’ve seen evidence of them existing in the Dark Disciple novel, so I want to see the actual quote form Martin.

The missile is a simple force push. I fail to see how that's above anything else he's done.

The missile is a feat of overcoming the propulsion of a missile, and redirecting it. Considering characters like Ezra have been shown struggling overcoming the repulsors of a simple probe droid, being able to completely overcome the propulsion of a missile and redirect it is no small feat. Kanan did this with no visible effort. We’ve seen plenty of other Jedi fail to stop missiles from coming their way, including the likes of Mace Windu and AotC Kenobi. Don’t be too quick to dismiss it.

I also fail to see how the Geonosis bridge feat is any better than the "giant" catwalk he lifted to save Hera when they first met.

We have no way to quantify how big the “giant” catwalk was that he lifted to save Hera. We don’t know its dimensions. It could be 20 meters, for all we know. That’d certainly be large enough to be considered giant.

However, we do have a way to quantify the bridge feat. It’s pretty insane.

So, the bridge has to have been around 50 meters long. The bridge spanned almost the full length of the air shaft, and we know the Ghost could fit down the air shaft with no difficulties, with at least a meter of clearance on all sides. The Ghost is 49.4 meters long. If we want to estimate the bridge’s length based off the average walking speed of a human (1.4 meters/sec) and compare how long it took Rex and Saw to cross (40 seconds), this gives us a similar number of around 56 meters. So let’s take the more conservative estimate, at 50.

Now, from what we can see, the bridge is at least a meter wide, and seems to be about a meter thick as well. So let’s say it’s 50 cubic meters, for simplicity’s sake. Now we just need a way to estimate the weight.

Let’s assume the bridge is made of sandstone. In reality, it’s most certainly made of a far more dense, sturdy stone to be able to support that type of structure, but again, we’re taking conservative estimates. Sandstone weights 2323 kilograms per cubic meter. This gives us a weight of roughly 116 metric tonnes for the bridge.

To give you a sense of scale, a single X-Wing weighs about 10 metric tonnes.

Kanan’s bridge feat is about the equivalent of lifting 11 X-Wings at once.

I’d say that’s more impressive than lifting a catwalk.

Likewise the force leap is not that far.

Considering the distance, here's S1E1 Ezra doing something similar for the leap.

Judging from the gif you provided, Ezra leaps maybe, maybe 14 meters, if that. I just showed how Kanan’s leap would have had to have been at least 50, if not more. That’s not even in the same ballpark. For the record, Obi-Wan in Master & Apprentice, after having trained under Qui-Gon for years, is ecstatic about having successfully leapt 20 meters once, and treats it as an extremely impressive feat. Kanan’s leap is more than double that distance.

Again this if anything is evidence he stagnated or that his stuff with Bendu only restored his connection. Not increased it.

Nothing you’ve provided suggests that Kanan stagnated, and you’ve done a poor job refuting my points. You even outright ignored one point that disproved your argument regarding Kanan and the 5th Brother, in which Kanan outright defeated the 5th Brother in a comic. Care to try again?

So, what? You’re just going to ignore the fact that the 5th Brother and 7th Sister are capable of using the Force to sense their opponents? 

Are you just going to ignore that senses are fallible and they never properly encountered them?

And the fact that Vader acknowledges this is further proof to support their statement.

Vader's statement is a dismissal. Not an acknowledgement

Second, from 0:16 to 0:31 in that video, Kanan is actually the one pressuring the 5th Brother back

No. Kanan is clearly the one backing up as he speaks. They then fight evenly until he turns him aside. And if these are your gauges for superiority then what's your rationale for Fifth doing the same to Ahhoka and Kanan simultaneously on Malachor?

I see you’re just outright ignoring my example of Kanan beating the 5th Brother fair and square.

Except he didn't? They both TK's each other then fought evenly for an extended period, then Ezra and Kanan beat him together with a combined attack.

Also, Filoni’s level system is unquantifiable.

It kind of is actually. Because he states that over all of season 1 they "went from level 4 to 5"

Here, you’re just outright wrong. Vergences, or nexuses, do exist in canon.

Apologies I should have been more specific. While nexuses do exist in canon, they do not have the same buffing/amping feature that they do in legends. They do not hinder or enhance force users in any way. In DD and several comic series no force user ever benefits from being present on one of these sights. 

The sole exception to this is the Nightsisters connection to Dathomir. Which is purely for their magic only. 

This was the behind-the-scenes reason given for why the Inquisitors could suddenly fly. I don’t recall if it was Pablo Hidalgo or Henry Gilroy who confirmed it in a Rebels Recon

All he said was that it had "something" to do with Malachor. It could just as easily be an atmospheric condition or such. As our dear Matt has said

I’m sorry, what? You’re argument is that because something was written by the social media strategist (not manager), it shouldn’t count? Rebels Revisited is still an official episode guide, officially published on the official Star Wars website. 

In case this isn't clear

Editorial : An article expressing the editor's opinion on a topical issue.


Rebels Revisited is blog 






Expressing the authors non-canon, unchecked and unverified opinion. It hold zero canonical weight whatsoever. 

Source on Matt Martin claiming force barriers don’t exist in canon? 

Here


On the DD example, it reinforces this if anything, as Ventress is whacked when her concentration slips. So force attacks in canon are no different than landing a kick or punch. And unless there is an active guard against them they meet no resistance. 

The missile is a feat of overcoming the propulsion of a missile, and redirecting it.

Except that's very clearly not what happened. Kanan simply pushed it to the side.

So, the bridge has to have been around 50 meters long. The bridge spanned almost the full length of the air shaft, and we know the Ghost could fit down the air shaft with no difficulties, with at least a meter of clearance on all sides. 

This isn't an air shaft and you have no proof their dimensions are universal. Especially when this one visibly isn't. Dismissed. 

For the record, Obi-Wan in Master & Apprentice, after having trained under Qui-Gon for years, is ecstatic about having successfully leapt 20 meters once, and treats it as an extremely impressive feat.

Obi-Wan is 17 in this novel and him jumping the wall isn't a matter of him being less powerful but acquiring focus after which it would be "easy". Likewise this was vertically. Not horizontally. So even if we accept your wanked version of the gap, it can be "easily" jumped by a 17 year old Kenobi.

Go Kanan /s

kanan could do it easily

@HeartoftheForce

I'm much too busy this weekend to do a full reply, I'll try to work on it over the week. But two things immediately spring to mind.

First, regarding the Rebels Revisited thing. Leeland Chee says "Generally" news and blogs don't generate new fictional content. The use of "generally" implies there are occasional exceptions. Leeland Chee continues on to say that "Story looks at Ep Guides and Databank." Guess what Rebels Revisited is? An series of episode guides. Hence, something the story group would look at. It's not just some random opinion piece written by the social media team. It's explicitly a series of episode guides to get new fans interested in the show, and therefore it's something that should be an exception to the "general" rule about news and blogs.

Second, it was called "air shaft" in the episode, by multiple characters. That's why I referred to it as such. And the air shaft where Kanan moved the bridge is stated to be the same one that the Ghost flies down later in that episode, when Kanan explicitly says "we're heading back to the central air shaft." So yes, Kanan's bridge feat was at an air shaft, despite your claim that it wasn't. We even seen the group come out of the same exit where Kanan performed the feat earlier in the episode, when they board the Ghost. And yes, the bridge had to have been at least 50 meters long, since we know the air shaft was large enough to accommodate the Ghost with meters of clearance on all sides. Now, I'll admit my math for the stone bridge's weight wasn't exactly spot on. But I actually took very conservative estimates for the size of the bridge. Its actual weight should be well above what I estimated, and already the feat is the equivalent of lifting 11 X-Wings. One of the best TK feats in Disney canon.

Everything the SW.com Databank says is reiterated by Filoni in some way. Likewise, these aren't just some random articles written by contributors. They're an episodic guide written by a Lucasfilm rep (Justin Bolger) who is also Lucasfilm's Social Media Strategist, and so has close ties with both the administrative and story branches of the company. Chee in the same thread emphasises that they are reviewed by the online team:



I fail to see your point, here. The blogs are simply further evidence, not unsubstantiated writings from people who aren't Lucasfilm reps. Everything said in these is reiterated, paraphrased or indicated by either Filoni himself or the episodes.

Except that's very clearly not what happened. Kanan simply pushed it to the side.

False.




You can see the vapour trail behind the missile shifting shortly after it leaves the rocket.

No. Kanan is clearly the one backing up as he speaks. They then fight evenly until he turns him aside. And if these are your gauges for superiority then what's your rationale for Fifth doing the same to Ahhoka and Kanan simultaneously on Malachor?

Again: false. He and Ezra are backing up at the beginning because they're retreating. When he's forced to fight him properly, he clearly shows the edge, shoving him back twice then outduelling him:

It kind of is actually. Because he states that over all of season 1 they "went from level 4 to 5"

In which case, you'll be able to provide exact levels for:

Ahsoka,
The Grand Inquisitor,
Maul,
The Fifth Brother,
The Seventh Sister,
The Eighth Brother.

Because the quote is obviously broad in its scaling and gives us levels for every single character. Likewise, "our heroes" must mean that Kanan ~ Sabine ~ Zeb ~ Ezra ~ Hela, since it's applying to all of them, no? Despite the fact that Kanan is clearly the MVP of them in personal combat.

Kanan with  medium effort