Darth Malak vs Darth Jadus

R1: Base Malak
R2: SF Malak

Jadus takes round 1
Malak takes round 2

SF Malak surpassed the dark council

Malak takes both

@Vaelias
@”Sith Archivist”

Reasons?

How do I tag people with space between their names?

Sith Archivist wrote:Malak takes both

Definitely doesn’t take round 1

Vaelias wrote:Definitely doesn’t take round 1

How?

Seturna wrote:@Vaelias
@”Sith Archivist”

Reasons?

Well Jadus was stated by Valkorian to be the best sith his empire ever produced, he likely held this position until SF Malak came into the picture, while I do not agree that the SF have Malak more powers than the likes of Kun I do believe that quote is worth Noting as it does make Malak > Dark Council

I do believe that quote is worth Noting as it does make Malak > Dark Council

I still don’t get this. Mind explaining?

Seturna wrote:

I do believe that quote is worth Noting as it does make Malak > Dark Council

I still don’t get this. Mind explaining?

Well Malak is above the Dark council by numerous sources

"You know the name? Malak is the strongest of us, and the strongest always rules."
―Yuthura Ban (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)

“Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt."
―Behind the Threat: The Sith

"The most powerful Sith Lords possess a talent for the dark alchemy of the Sith."
―The Dark Side Sourcebook

Especially given how much SF Malak scales above Darth Revan who arguably is above the Dark Council too

Then there’s this quote


"An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?"
―Wizards of the Coast: Darth Malak

I don’t think he surpassed Kun at all but he defiantly surpassed Sadow given how he handled the Star Forge and now he scales from the Exiles, the sith of Sadows era like Kallig have been shown Casuallt ragdolling the likes of Darth Nox, one of the most powerful memebers of the Dark Council, yes he was pre prime but only by a few years whereas the incarnation of Kallig had been drained by Vitiate for a very long time.
So we have
Malak >>>> Sadow > Kallig >>>>> Jadus > Nox >>> Nyriss

Dunno if I made any sense I’m pretty baked rn hahaha

You can't use the Malak quote to scale Malak over Sadow without saying it means > Kun. That makes no sense.

Big up

LadyKulvax wrote:You can't use the Malak quote to scale Malak over Sadow without saying it means > Kun. That makes no sense.

Well he clearly doesn’t scale over Kun an he scales over Sadow easily and feats also support this.

Kun has a lot of counters for the Malak quote but Sadow doesn’t

Vaelias wrote:Well Malak is above the Dark council by numerous sources

FYI

"In the Emperor's absence, the galaxy's most domineering, powerful, brilliant, and cunning Sith lead the Empire's path to glory."

―Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

"While the undying Emperor serves as the unquestioned leader of the Empire, the twelve members of the Dark Council oversee the daily workings of their vast civilization and speak in the Emperor’s name. Each is among the most powerful Sith in the galaxy; to hold a seat on the council is the highest honor and the greatest position of influence a Sith can attain."

WE do not know for sure.

Vaelias wrote:
"You know the name? Malak is the strongest of us, and the strongest always rules."
―Yuthura Ban (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)

Yuthura Ban's statement is applicable to the Sith Empire she is part of - not applicable to the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.

Vaelias wrote:
“Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt."
―Behind the Threat: The Sith

This statement starts with the word 'many' and also contain the word 'including' while mentioning Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader and Darth Krayt.

Instructive but hardly conclusive.

Vaelias wrote:
"The most powerful Sith Lords possess a talent for the dark alchemy of the Sith."
―The Dark Side Sourcebook

Common theme in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire....

Vaelias wrote:
Especially given how much SF Malak scales above Darth Revan who arguably  is above the Dark Council too

Not instructive enough.

Vaelias wrote:
Then there’s this quote


"An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?"
―Wizards of the Coast: Darth Malak

I don’t think he surpassed Kun at all but he defiantly surpassed Sadow given how he handled the Star Forge and now he scales from the Exiles, the sith of Sadows era like Kallig have been shown Casuallt ragdolling the likes of Darth Nox, one of the most powerful memebers of the Dark Council, yes he was pre prime but only by a few years whereas the incarnation of Kallig had been drained by Vitiate for a very long time.
So we have
Malak >>>> Sadow > Kallig >>>>> Jadus > Nox >>> Nyriss

Dunno if I made any sense I’m pretty baked rn hahaha

That statement is the best case you can make for Darth Malak but you backtracked from it....

Lord Kallig lived in the times of Tulak Hord and intimidated the latter which is by no means a small thing. Hord sanctioned Kallig's assassination instead of taking his chances with him in person which is even more telling.

When Darth Nox encountered spirit of Lord Kallig, he wasn't a DARTH at this point in time. Sith spirits are very powerful and dangerous entities however. Unknown Sith spirits came very close to killing Palpatine on Korriban for instance.

SWTOR contain numerous action sequences for SHOCK VALUE and these do not imply inferiority.

Darth Nox route suggest him binding several powerful spirits to himself and drawing on their power to augment his own with powerful Sith Sorcery, and this mechanism translates into unbelievable levels of raw power for him for a while, to the point he dismantled Darth Thanaton in a fight as if he was nothing. However, further updates do not support this position and it seems that he released the spirits. This make sense otherwise Darth Nox would have creamed everybody else barring Valkorion.

Malak

Vaelias wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:You can't use the Malak quote to scale Malak over Sadow without saying it means > Kun. That makes no sense.

Well he clearly doesn’t scale over Kun an he scales over Sadow easily and feats also support this.

Kun has a lot of counters for the Malak quote but Sadow doesn’t

Well you really can’t use that quote to prove Malak>Sadow but also not prove Malak>Exar. You would either go with:

(1). Buy the quote, and in turn have  Malak above Exar Kun.

(2). Dismiss the whole quote and not have Malak directly above Kun/Sadow.

If you believe Malak is above Sadow due to other things then name those and don’t use this quote. Causes confusion.

Which one is it?

S_W_LeGenD wrote:

Vaelias wrote:Well Malak is above the Dark council by numerous sources

FYI

"In the Emperor's absence, the galaxy's most domineering, powerful, brilliant, and cunning Sith lead the Empire's path to glory."

―Star Wars: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

"While the undying Emperor serves as the unquestioned leader of the Empire, the twelve members of the Dark Council oversee the daily workings of their vast civilization and speak in the Emperor’s name. Each is among the most powerful Sith in the galaxy; to hold a seat on the council is the highest honor and the greatest position of influence a Sith can attain."

WE do not know for sure.

Vaelias wrote:
"You know the name? Malak is the strongest of us, and the strongest always rules."
―Yuthura Ban (Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic)

Yuthura Ban's statement is applicable to the Sith Empire she is part of - not applicable to the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.

Vaelias wrote:
“Many of the most powerful, terrifying, and notorious Sith Lords through history have been Human or near-Human, including Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, and Darth Krayt."
―Behind the Threat: The Sith

This statement starts with the word 'many' and also contain the word 'including' while mentioning Exar Kun, Darth Malak, Darth Bane, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader and Darth Krayt.

Instructive but hardly conclusive.

Vaelias wrote:
"The most powerful Sith Lords possess a talent for the dark alchemy of the Sith."
―The Dark Side Sourcebook

Common theme in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire....

Vaelias wrote:
Especially given how much SF Malak scales above Darth Revan who arguably  is above the Dark Council too

Not instructive enough.

Vaelias wrote:
Then there’s this quote


"An imposing figure with ghostly pale features, prominent Sith tattoos, a gleaming red lightsaber, and devastating Dark Side power, Malak struck terror into the hearts of his former allies. He also wore a vocal mask that may have concealed a form of cybernetic life-support. Did it provide him with powers far greater than even Exar Kun or Freedon Nadd, or was cybernetic enhancement too simple an explanation?"
―Wizards of the Coast: Darth Malak

I don’t think he surpassed Kun at all but he defiantly surpassed Sadow given how he handled the Star Forge and now he scales from the Exiles, the sith of Sadows era like Kallig have been shown Casuallt ragdolling the likes of Darth Nox, one of the most powerful memebers of the Dark Council, yes he was pre prime but only by a few years whereas the incarnation of Kallig had been drained by Vitiate for a very long time.
So we have
Malak >>>> Sadow > Kallig >>>>> Jadus > Nox >>> Nyriss

Dunno if I made any sense I’m pretty baked rn hahaha

That statement is the best case you can make for Darth Malak but you backtracked from it....

Lord Kallig lived in the times of Tulak Hord and intimidated the latter which is by no means a small thing. Hord sanctioned Kallig's assassination instead of taking his chances with him in person which is even more telling.

When Darth Nox encountered spirit of Lord Kallig, he wasn't a DARTH at this point in time. Sith spirits are very powerful and dangerous entities however. Unknown Sith spirits came very close to killing Palpatine on Korriban for instance.

SWTOR contain numerous action sequences for SHOCK VALUE and these do not imply inferiority.

Darth Nox route suggest him binding several powerful spirits to himself and drawing on their power to augment his own with powerful Sith Sorcery, and this mechanism translates into unbelievable levels of raw power for him for a while, to the point he dismantled Darth Thanaton in a fight as if he was nothing. However, further updates do not support this position and it seems that he released the spirits. This make sense otherwise Darth Nox would have creamed everybody else barring Valkorion.

Well after Yoda and Mace the Jedi council were the most powerful one of those guys is Coleman Trebor who got on shot by Jango, so what’s your point

Also Kalligs living incarnation was far more powerful than his spirit which had been drained of its powerful for years, yes Nox grew between then and his prime but Kallig used to be WAY stronger than his spirit incarnation, sith of his era are just more powerful than the SWTOR sith by a significant margin

Seturna wrote:

Vaelias wrote:

LadyKulvax wrote:You can't use the Malak quote to scale Malak over Sadow without saying it means > Kun. That makes no sense.

Well he clearly doesn’t scale over Kun an he scales over Sadow easily and feats also support this.

Kun has a lot of counters for the Malak quote but Sadow doesn’t

Well you really can’t use that quote to prove Malak>Sadow but also not prove Malak>Exar. You would either go with:

(1). Buy the quote, and in turn have  Malak above Exar Kun.

(2). Dismiss the whole quote and not have Malak directly above Kun/Sadow.

If you believe Malak is above Sadow due to other things then name those and don’t use this quote. Causes confusion.

Which one is it?

Well I can cos there are a million counters for Malak> Kun but hardly any counters for Malak > Sadow

Sadow lived closer to the time of the exiles who couldn’t figure out the star forge, Malak mastered it, it was likely Sadow also wouldn’t be able to master the SF also

Well I can cos there are a million counters for Malak> Kun but hardly any counters for Malak > Sadow

That’s like using Sidious’ supremacy quotes to argue he only scales above Malak, but not Darth Marr. You either buy it, or you don’t. Which we go back to my original point:

Seturna wrote: (1). Buy the quote, and in turn have Malak above Exar Kun.

(2). Dismiss the whole quote and not have Malak directly above Kun/Sadow.

@Vaelias

Vaelias wrote: I don’t think he surpassed Kun at all but he defiantly surpassed Sadow given how he handled the Star Forge and now he scales from the Exiles, the sith of Sadows era like Kallig have been shown Casuallt ragdolling the likes of Darth Nox, one of the most powerful memebers of the Dark Council, yes he was pre prime but only by a few years whereas the incarnation of Kallig had been drained by Vitiate for a very long time.

In terms of Darth Nox, 3 years before joining the Dark Council, Nox first stepped on Korriban and began training in the dark side. Without context, such a feat is much more impressive than it actually is. Furthermore, Nox’s own training had awakened Kallig’s spirit, which could be suggested to have boosted his power. I have a lot of quotes on my laptop, which I can check tomorrow if need be. Either way, Nox who hadn’t even been training to become a Sith for a year is not close to the same as the Nox that was given the title of darth and given a seat on the DC in terms of skill or power.

Andru scaling is a thing and Aloysius's spirit is enormously weakened after being subjected to Vitiate's draining.

Jadus should win

LadyKulvax wrote:Andru scaling is a thing and Aloysius's spirit is enormously weakened after being subjected to Vitiate's draining.

Still see 0 reason for either to apply to suggest that either of the two are equal to or superior to the Nox that sat on the DC, especially when the Nox at that point can show superiority to all 4 ghosts at once. Furthermore, I’d take the first Andru vs Kallig fight as Kallig having no known techniques to combat or defend against ghosts.