Vodo Siosk Baas vs Lord Kas'im

R1: Sabers only
R2: Force only
R3: All out
Who wins and why?

Baas smacks

Baas struggled mightily against Exar Kun whenever he utilised Jar'Kai or a double-bladed lightsaber. That said he should be a good deal more powerful than Kas'im. Baas wins in a decent fight.

That was Kun's power, not weapon selection. Baas is a Weapon Master and specialised in staff combat, which is what Kun based his dual-bladed weapon on.

But yeah, Baas stomps. Baas >/~ Thon >>> DoE Bane >>>>> Kas'im

LadyKulvax wrote:That was Kun's power, not weapon selection. Baas is a Weapon Master and specialised in staff combat, which is what Kun based his dual-bladed weapon on.

But yeah, Baas stomps. Baas >/~ Thon >>> DoE Bane >>>>> Kas'im

How is Thon above Bane?

Thon easily contained the power of Lake Natth. Zannah drawing on a fraction of the power of Ambria created tendrils that Bane was powerless against.

LadyKulvax wrote:Thon easily contained the power of Lake Natth. Zannah drawing on a fraction of the power of Ambria created tendrils that Bane was powerless against.

The dark side on Ambria was just ambiental corruption. Zannah's tendrils were weaponized. So no, that doesn't prove Thon to be more powerful than Bane.

Zannah literally draws on Ambria to create the tendrils with sorcery. That's how she makes them. They're literally impervious to Bane's desperate Force attempts. Comparatively, Thon is creating a wall of light that permanently contains the entire dark side energy of Ambria. Like, you can't just say it doesn't count and ignore it thereafter.

Again she opened herself up to the dark side. This time, however she didn't attack Bane directly. Instead, she let it flow through her, drawing it from the soil and stone of Ambria itself. She called to power buried for centuries, summoning it up to the surface in wispy tendrils of dark smoke snaking up from the sand.The thin tendrils crawled along the ground, reaching for one another, twining themselves together into writhing tentacles each several meters long. Then, in response to her unspoken command, the tentacles rose up and lashed out at her foe.

LadyKulvax wrote:Zannah literally draws on Ambria to create the tendrils with sorcery. That's how she makes them. They're literally impervious to Bane's desperate Force attempts. Comparatively, Thon is creating a wall of light that permanently contains the entire dark side energy of Ambria. Like, you can't just say it doesn't count and ignore it thereafter.

Again she opened herself up to the dark side. This time, however she didn't attack Bane directly. Instead, she let it flow through her, drawing it from the soil and stone of Ambria itself. She called to power buried for centuries, summoning it up to the surface in wispy tendrils of dark smoke snaking up from the sand.The thin tendrils crawled along the ground, reaching for one another, twining themselves together into writhing tentacles each several meters long. Then, in response to her unspoken command, the tentacles rose up and lashed out at her foe.

What? I don't think you understood what I said. Bane was helpless against the tendrils because Zannah weaponized the dark side on Ambria to create them. The dark side was just ambient corruption and wasn't weaponized when Thon contained it within the lake which is how he did it easily. Not because he was more powerful than Bane.

The tendrils are made by some of the same power that Thon contains. Oh and you kinda forgot that Thon entrapped hundreds (thousands even) of Sith spirits that were all attacking him ontop of all the power from the ritual. So your point about it being weaponised is moot on both fronts.

LadyKulvax wrote:The tendrils are made by some of the same power that Thon contains. Oh and you kinda forgot that Thon entrapped hundreds (thousands even) of Sith spirits that were all attacking him ontop of all the power from the ritual. So your point about it being weaponised is moot on both fronts.

I can’t say I agree with your logic. It’s basically saying person A is more powerful than person B because person B was killed by a knife and person A stores metal.

The energy for both is the same, and no it isn't like that. Because Thon was exhausted when he contained all of the energy and spirits at once. Said energy was literally being used against him to try and kill him. He countered said energy by overpowering it and completely containing it, with a WoL.

LadyKulvax wrote:The energy for both is the same, and no it isn't like that. Because Thon was exhausted when he contained all of the energy and spirits at once. Said energy was literally being used against him to try and kill him. He countered said energy by overpowering it and completely containing it, with a WoL.

Thon had access to a specific technique that Bane didn't, though. Wall of Light. Thon using a technique specifically designed to cut things off from the Force to stop a Force-based threat is not a fair comparison to Bane's attempts to defend himself with conventional Force techniques. You can't compare Thon and Bane's raw strength through their respective showings on Ambria, when technique is what really separates their showings, not raw power. 

What you're doing is like saying Bruce Lee is stronger than Hafthor Bjornsson because he could probably win in a hypothetical fight using his martial arts. Just because a martial artist using specialized technique could win a fight against someone who isn't a fighter by trade, that doesn't meant they're "stronger." Hafthor Bjornsson is factually stronger than Bruce Lee ever was, regardless of if he could win in a fist fight against the martial artist. It's technique that separates the two. Same case here with Thon and Bane. 

As far as we can tell, there's no direct way to compare the raw strength of Bane and Thon (different eras, no direct scaling, not really any similar feats). All we can compare is Thon using a specialized technique that blocks off the Force against the dark side on Ambria. Bane lacks the ability to use that technique, so when the same dark side power was used against him, Bane died. I do want to point out, however, that Thon was still exhausted, even after using that specialized technique to contain the darkness. So while it didn't kill him, his feat still took a considerable toll, in spite of his specialized ability that made it possible. This implies that without access to Wall of Light, he would have certainly died every bit as easily as Bane did. 

So yeah, flawed comparison. Thon is not greater than Bane. Though his Wall of Light might give him an edge against Bane if the two ever had a direct fight. But in terms of how much power each character wields individually, there's no way to make a fair comparison. There's no way to say, for example, state exactly how many tons of stone each character could lift and determine who actually has more raw power.

Yeah, that's not how that works. Wall of Light isn't some hax technique that can cheap-shot dark side energy. Otherwise, Thon doesn't need literally all of the known Jedi in the galaxy to pull off the same thing on Yavin IV. Wall of Light and its lesser variant Sever Force requires you be powerful enough to pull it off in the first place. Hence Odan-Urr failing to sever Exar Kun from the Force when he tried it. Wall of Light requires the needed power to pull it off. We know that because we have descriptions stating that the wall of light against Kun required combined power to work. This is no different. Thon's power had to be stronger for it to take effect.

Thon had already been fending off Sith spirits prior to this and the effort to keep beating them back, over and over, had exhuasted him. That's when he pulls off the Lake Natth feat.

If Bane was powerful enough to overcome it then he would have. It's stated outright that it's made out of dark side energy. That's all it is. Thus, if Bane's own dark side energies were stronger then it would have prevailed when he exerted himself in that pursuit.