Darth Bane versus Galen Marek

@Meatpants

The majority of what you said was rebutted in our SS, so I'll defer you to there for responses to what you just argued, but regarding the specific contention on Destiny Points, Galen's feat against Sheev clearly isn't a demonstration of an Unleashed ability, as is clarified in the below thread:

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t3694-why-starkiller-s-lightning-clash-against-sheev-at-the-end-of-tfu-isn-t-an-unleashed-destiny-feat

@Meatpants:

What exactly is Starkiller's paygrade?

Regardless of how you view it, it's far above struggling to lift a relatively small ship, something Galen does before he exhausts himself further with the clones feat (indicating he'd be even lower by the time of his duel with Vader).

I'm not saying Starkiller wasn't affected at all per se, but rather that adrenaline rushes aren't unknown and are quite common among Force users. I don't know where Starkiller lies in that spectrum, but what I do know is that there's no convincing evidence that he's actually a blitz/ragdoll tier gap above Vader, and the only reason he can't win is because he's exhausted, even though we know from numerous examples that Force users who are sufficiently desperate can summon up adrenaline rushes.

I'd say Galen being massively above the clones is sufficient enough evidence he can stomp Vader at base (considering they're stated to be far better than the sick man in an iron mask).

Starkiller never expresses difficulty accessing his power. Compare to say, Qui-Gon, Dooku or Caedus - all very legitimate POV examples of them noting their power is failing, but summon up the willpower to continue fighting.

A) Caedus's hinderance was tied to physical injury, not force reserves, so it doesn't apply.

B) Dooku and Jinn alter from SK in the fact that their exhaustion stems from a gradual draining of force reserves across the course of a fight. They might be running lower on energy than is good for them, but they still have some left in the tank, hence their ability to keep fighting. SK however, releases the totality of his potency twice over, draining everything, and only gets a brief recovery period before launching another assault (which is enough so that he can fight, but not put out the bursts of energy Jinn and Dooku did, because he's not got stuff left in the tank like they do, he's practically running on fumes).

I've yet to collect them all, but ESB/ROTJ Luke is also stated multiple times to be Vader's toughest challenge as well.

Would love to see them.

Galen is given as a specific example. However, I do not dispute that he's a prodigy with immense Force potential. If we're talking about the Sidious thing, there's multiple ways to attack it.

As HP's rebuttal proves, it might apply to Galen in a general sense but doesn't refer specifically to his clash with Sids.

Starkiller's most potent feat is tanked by the Emperor - all his midichlorians exploding right on top of him, and he comes out without issue or even phased in the slightest

Power that spreads out in all directions and isn't exclusively hitting the emperor. Any proof this contradict him taking Sheev's lightning?

Enlightened Galen is ragdolled by the Emperor in the dark side version of the game.

There's no contradiction here. Sheev does better in the DS ending because he slips the lightning under SK's guard and wrecks him with it. In the LS version SK braces and musters a defence. It doesn't refute the power comparison, only proves that Sids has greater mastery and skill (duh).

Even then, we know that there's no evidence of much difference between DS Galen and LS Galen, because it still takes him a while to outduel Vader despite his new clarity, and only telekinetically dominates his opponent after an extended duel

I agree with you that SK in the DS ending has enlightenement, so this point here doesn't matter, but still, it's wrong. The way the text in the novel is framed makes it clear the enlightened version of Galen is much better than his DS counterpart. As for the length, it's one sided duel as is made apparent by the novel, so the timeframe should be irrelevant.

where Vader suffers three deep lightsaber cuts.

Three cuts that would not affect his ability to defend himself with the force.

Deep in the Valley of the Jedi, Kyle confronted Jerec, the very man who had killed Morgan Katarn. The two did battle, and when Kyle slew Jerec, he fulfilled an ancient prophecy. The spirits of long-dead Jedi, trapped in the Valley for a thousand years, were finally freed. With this energy unleashed, the Valley of the Jedi's worth as a weapon was effectively eliminated.

Conceded.

"Small ship"

Ship is about the size of a Venator.

@HeartOfTheForce I was speaking relative to some of SK's other feats.

It’s honestly one of his best. And great evidence he’s not that afflicted by exhaustion or that he can just wash it away.

I think only the Salvation tops it honestly. I’d consider this better than the original ISD feat.

Well just on that briefly, the Salvation feat was intended by him to be a suicide blast. Unless you're suggesting that Galen's paygrade is using "all his power in the Force" all the time, then it kinda does make sense for him to struggle moving that massive ship lol.

Comment retracted.

@HeartoftheForce

"Small ship"

Ship is about the size of a Venator.

On what basis is it comparable in size to a Venator?

Based on it being able to bridge a gap nearly as wide as the towers are tall.

Kamino towers were confirmed in the Locations Guide to be a kilometer above the sea level. Then it takes a whole level to get through the thing So it's around a kilometer across.

@HeartOfTheForce: Do you have quotes for the towers being 1KM above sea level? If so I'll concede on the ship point.

HeartoftheForce wrote:Based on it being able to bridge a gap nearly as wide as the towers are tall.

Kamino towers were confirmed in the Locations Guide to be a kilometer above the sea level. Then it takes a whole level to get through the thing So it's around a kilometer across.

Citation needed for both statements.

Sjuttiosju wrote:@HeartOfTheForce: Do you have quotes for the towers being 1KM above sea level? If so I'll concede on the ship point.

The Force Unleashed II wrote:Ahead, a series of cloning towers loomed, standing as upright and tall as wroshyr trees on Kashyyyk.

And yes the ship is as long as the tower is tall. 

So yeah it's easily SK third best TK feat after the ISD and maybe Slavation depending how you look at it.

@HeartOfTheForce: Ah, kk. There goes my devils advocate attempt at defending SK I guess.

@HeartoftheForce

DC may concede, but I don't:

Ahead, a series of cloning towers loomed, standing as upright and tall as wroshyr trees on Kashyyyk.

You are aware that "stand tall" is a commonly used phrase that has its own meaning, right? It means "be proud and confident". And given that the passage is all about them standing upright, looming, etc, I have no reason to assume this quote is referring to literal height instead of just the overall presence of the towers.

And yes the ship is as long as the tower is tall.

Uh, what? Why would we assume the thin, tall bit that reaches up to the towers is representative of the length of the ship?

Round 1: Bane wins sabers only, Marek wins force and all out.
Round 2: Bane wins.
Round 3: Bane wins all.