Darth Marr, Nox and Baras vs Darth Caedus and Lumiya

Trio take it tbh.

Trio stomp. Lumiya is unimpressive and Caedus can't carry given every member of the trio is at the very least comparable to him.

Jacen solos.

DC77 wrote:Jacen solos.

In what world does he solo?

Also, I see what you did there.

The world we are currently living in unless I'm very much mistaken.

DC77 wrote:The world we are currently living in unless I'm very much mistaken.

You are very much mistaken. Please enlighten me though onto why you hold this retarded stance.

Feats and scaling superior to that of the trio.

Enlighten me as to why he doesn't beat them.

What "feats and superior scaling"?

I'll elaborate over the weekend, you know I'm busy atm.

Yeah, the team wrecks. Nox is an absolute monster.

LadyKulvax wrote:Yeah, the team wrecks. Nox is an absolute monster.

This. Nox is easily the best of the protags tbh.

Not sure I agree on that, Wrath and the Slayer have monstrous feats/scaling/accolades themselves.

LadyKulvax wrote:Not sure I agree on that, Wrath and the Slayer have monstrous feats/scaling/accolades themselves.

Wrath is easily the weakest. He has decent scaling, but the basis for that scaling is fairly weak and unassuming. The HoT is decent but his best feat is completely unquantifiable. Nox has clear-cut scaling where his innate power is enough to go blow for blow with Thanaton and only begin to be overwhelmed in a prolonged lightning contest. And that was BEFORE adding in the power of his spirits, his spirits alone being enough to casually one-shot Thanaton. He scales monstrously and disgustingly above Thanaton. Base Nox is arguably the weakest protag (though I might argue him being above Wrath even still) but spirit-laden Nox is easily the strongest protag and I'd argue he's on par with KotFE Arcann.

Wrath killed the two most dangerous and vaunted Jedi in the galaxy, in time to escape a massive cavern before it collapsed in on them. Then killed Vengean and Ekkage, Vengean being even more powerful than Wyellett and Ekkage even more powerful than him, the Wrath still had the energy remaining to kill a top Jedi Master immediately after. Not to mention defeating Sel Makor in the heart of his power. Who is obviously far more powerful than Darth Baras who dwarfs his sister's power. To the point that Makor should essentially stomp Baras.

The Wrath is most certainly not the weakest protagonist, and there's no way that the Slayer isn't the strongest of them all. The weakened Vitiate that a hindered and weakened Slayer was so far beyond, is still more powerful than the Children of the Emperor, both the First Son and Exal Kressh included, combined.

All of them are confirmed to hold a mere fraction of the Emperor's power, that power being marginalised at that point given his continuous assertion of control over Revan, Vaylin and the Dread Masters simultaneously.

Essentially ACTIII!Slayer > (weakened) Vitiate >>>>> The First Son >> Exal Kressh >> the Children of the Emperor.

Don't underestimate the other protagonists.

Out of curiosity, you would argue the Barsen'thor as the weakest protag? Or Nox?

Wrath defeated a host that Sel-Makor and Vitiate were warring over; it certainly wasn't either's full strength, and the piece of Makor's power that was inhabiting the host would have been splitting attention between fighting the Wrath and keeping Vitiate at bay. Additionally, it was just that, a piece of Makor's strength. A decently impressive but once again an unquantifiable feat.

As for the "Slayer" (as you insist on calling him), there is no confirmation one way or the other as to how weakened Vitiate stacks up against the First Son or Exal Kressh. He might be stronger than them still, but the assertion that he's stronger than both combined is completely baseless.

Barsen'thor is weakest.

Vitiate purposefully meant for Sel Makor to take over so the Wrath could kill him. Sel Makor and Vitiate weren't waging some mental war, the species of his Voice are uniquely susceptible to Sel Makor's power. Voss can never escape. That was Baras' plan all along.

But even if we assume you are right, any power Sel Makor can bring to bare still dwarfs Baras given that it was Makor's boon of power that was a major factor in Baras' rise to power in the first place.

It's literally stated that their power is fractional compared to Vitiate's own.

I think you could honestly make a fair argument for the Wrath being the strongest. Not that I would necessarily agree with the argument but they have some pretty impressive feats.

Why? And am I correct in assuming you have HoT>Wrath>Nox>'Thor?

Baras is largely unimpressive; any scaling Wrath gets from him doesn't place him above any other protag.

A full-powered Vitiate, yes. We have no clue how weakened Vitiate was nor how he stacks up to his Children in that state.

I'm just gonna throw this out there since it's a pretty good read. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthant66/blog/empires-wrath-respect-thread-updated-2017/103818/

Praxis wrote:I'm just gonna throw this out there since it's a pretty good read. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/darthant66/blog/empires-wrath-respect-thread-updated-2017/103818/

Nothing in there is new to me.

So I just read through everything pertaining to Nox/Thanaton/Baras since it's been awhile since I've played and I guess what it really comes down to is if Thanaton >= Baras then obviously Nox>Wrath since Nox stomped Thanaton and Wrath seemed to be struggling with Baras as evidenced by his heavy breathing during the fight. But if Baras > Thanaton then it leaves it open to debate how large of a margin there is between the two and whether or not that gap is large enough to where the Wrath would stomp Thanaton as well. After reading about Thanaton and Baras though I don't think there is a large gap between them whether you argue Thanaton > Baras or Baras > Thanaton at their base levels, but if Baras was somehow still amped by the Entity's power during his fight with the Wrath then I think Baras > Thanaton by probably a fairly decent margin. So I guess it really just depends on whether or not Baras retained the power he got after it was cut off.

Except the sheer difference in strength between the Slayer of the Emperor(that's the canonical title of the Outlander, who is almost certainly the Hero of Tython by a plethora of indicators.) and Vitiate can't possibly be determined to be as vast. A Vitiate who had been given all the time in the world to prepare and gather his power, was 'no match' for a Slayer who had dissipated their energy fighting an army of Sith and Imperial Guardsmen, before going back to save the companions, making them even weaker. On Dromund Kaas of all places, in the depths of the Dark Temple itself.

Baras scales from everyone beneath him, that's what makes him so impressive. Sel Makor scales from him in turn, pretty immensely. Thus, Wrath is stated to 'ruin' Baras.

This is the chain:

ActIII Wrath > Sel-Makor >> 'False Voice' Baras >> Darth Ekkage > Darth Vengean > Master Wyellett >> Xerender > Tol Braga > Warren Sedoru > Ven Zallow ~ Darth Malgus > Aryn Leneer > Hope!Malgus > Knight Satele Shan > Lord Malgus ~ Kao Cen Darach > ToC!Darth Baras > Pre-Sel Makor amp!Baras > Lord Fulminiss ~ casually breaking the minds of four Sith Lords, all of whom were strong enough to be hand-selected by the Emperor for his death cult.

Praxis, the Wrath was confirmed to have 'ruined' Baras and was left powerless by the end.

LadyKulvax wrote:Praxis, the Wrath was confirmed to have 'ruined' Baras and was left powerless by the end.

In that case I would probably lean Nox>Wrath I guess.