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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 6:46 am
Peak Legends versions for both. No force abilities save for augmentation.

Round 1: Maul with his cybernetic chicken legs

Round 2: Maul with his normal cyborg legs
AncientPower
AncientPower
Suspect Hero | Level Four
Suspect Hero | Level Four

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 7:15 am
Based on ILS' wall of texts, Maul.
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LOTL

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 7:32 am
Grevious beats him
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
Level Two
Level Two

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 7:39 am
Grievous.
Master Azronger
Master Azronger
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 8:06 am
The General
PeraltaEagle45
PeraltaEagle45

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 10:26 am
Could see it going either way
Jake
Jake
Level One
Level One

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 11:11 am
Grievous shatters every bone in Maul’s body.
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Guest
Guest

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 11:26 am
Jake wrote:Grievous shatters every bone in Maul’s body.
NevesYtneves (DC77)
NevesYtneves (DC77)
Level Seven
Level Seven

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 11:32 am
Probably Grievous but I'd be interested if say, @ILS were to make a case in Maul's favour.
The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 12:01 pm
So...

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=628703&pagenumber=3#post16925753

Grievous should win mainly based on the physiological differences between the two. That said...

Make this Talzin legs Maul and we got a motherfucking fight!
The Witness
The Witness

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 12:44 pm
With force augmentation Maul can definitely win, given that Obi Wan stood a chance and he is physically weaker than Maul.
xolthol
xolthol
Level Five
Level Five

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 1:05 pm
Grievous murk Maul...
The Lost
The Lost
Level Five
Level Five

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 12th 2019, 1:22 pm
Sam wrote:With force augmentation Maul can definitely win, given that Obi Wan stood a chance and he is physically weaker than Maul.
Where in RotS did Obi-Wan stand a chance? He was getting ragdolled.
O-Siri
O-Siri

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 1:24 am
I can see either taking it. Grievous as mentioned probably has the edge overall physically but Maul has a pretty high damage soak(Lockdown anyone?) and seeing how even Kenobi is capable of bending Grievous's forearm and loosening his chest Maul should be capable of replicating this and getting at his heart.

The Lost
The Lost
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 4:50 am
Obi-Wan charged.

Grievous backed away, unleashing a stream of blaster bolts as fast as his half a forefinger could pull the trigger.

Obi-Wan spun the staff, catching every bolt, not even slowing down, and when he reached Grievous he slapped the blaster out of his hand with a crack of the staff that sent blue lightning scaling up the general's arm.

His following strike was a stiff stab into Grievous's jointed stomach armor that sent the general staggering back. Obi-Wan hit him again in the same place, denting the armorplast plate, cracking the joint where it met the larger, thicker plates of his chest as Grievous flailed for balance, but when he spun the staff for his next strike the general's flailing arm flailed itself against the middle of the staff and his other hand found it as well and he seized it, yanking himself upright against Obi-Wan's grip, his metal skull-face coming within a centimeter of the Jedi Master's nose.

He snarled, "Do you think I am foolish enough to arm my bodyguards with weapons that can actually hurt me?"

Instead of waiting for an answer he spun, heaving Obi-Wan right off the deck with effortless strength, whipping up him over his head to slam him to the deck with killing power; Obi-Wan could only let go of the staff and allow the Force to angle his fall into a stumbling roll. Grievous sprang after him, swinging the electrostaff and slamming it across Obi-Wan's flank before the Jedi Master could recover his balance. The impact sent Obi-Wan tumbling sideways and the electroburst discharge set his robe on fire. Grievous stayed right with him, attacking before Obi-Wan could even realize exactly what was happening, attacking faster than thought-But Obi-Wan didn't need to think. The Force was with him, and he knew.

When Grievous spun the staff overhand, discharge blade sizzling down at Obi-Wan's head for the killing blow, Obi-Wan went to the inside.

He met Grievous chest-to-chest, his upraised hand blocking the general's wrist; Grievous snarled something incoherent and bore down on the Jedi Master's block with all his weight, driving the blade closer and closer to Obi-Wan's face-But Obi-Wan's arm had the Force to give it strength, and the general's arm only had the innate crystalline intermolecular structure of duranium alloy.

Grievous's forearm bent like a cheap spoon.

While the general stared in disbelief at his mangled arm, Obi-Wan had been working the fingers of his free hand around the lower edge of Grievous's dented, joint-loose stomach plate. Grievous looked down. "What?"

Obi-Wan slammed the elbow of his blocking arm into the general's clavicle while he yanked as hard as he could on the stomach plate, and it ripped free in his hand. Behind it hung a translucent sac of synthskin containing a tangle of green and gray organs.

The true body of the alien inside the droid. Grievous howled and dropped the staff to seize Obi-Wan with his three remaining arms. He lifted the Jedi Master over his head again and hurled him tumbling over the landing deck toward the precipice above the gloom-shrouded drop. Reaching into the Force, Obi-Wan was able to connect with the stone itself as if he were anchored to it with a cable tether; instead of hurtling over the edge he slammed down onto the rock hard enough to crush all breath from his lungs.

Grievous picked up the staff again and charged.

Obi-Wan still couldn't breathe. He had no hope of rising to meet the general's attack.

All he could do was extend a hand.

As the bio-droid loomed over him, electrostaff raised for the kill, the hold-out blaster flipped from the deck into Obi-Wan's palm, and with no hesitation, no second thoughts, not even the faintest pause to savor his victory, he pulled the trigger.

The bolt ripped into the synthskin sac.

Grievous's guts exploded in a foul-smelling shower the color of a dead swamp. Energy chained up his spine and a mist of vaporized brain burst out both sides of his skull and sent his face spinning off the precipice.

The electrostaff hit the deck, followed shortly by the general's knees.

Then by what was left of his head.
So...

1. Obi-Wan dented the chest-plate and cracked the main joint that met the larger, thicker plates of Grievous' chest, with an electrostaff he acquired very circumstantially and will not have in this fight. A weapon that gives him more reach and potential damage output than just his fist.

2. Despite this Grievous disarms Obi-Wan and then throws him with "effortless strength". From Obi-Wan's perspective Grievous was about to throw him into the ground with "killing force", his only saving grace being that he lets go of the staff and then uses the Force to angle his descent - something else Maul won't have access to in this thread seeing as it is pure H2H with no telekinesis.

3. Grievous then starts attacking Obi-Wan before he can register what is happening, so Obi-Wan closes the gap between them. While Grievous is poised for a killing blow with his arms up high, Obi-Wan does two things: he grabs Grievous' forearm and by specifically augmenting his Force strength he's able to bend it... something he wasn't able to do prior as Grievous slowly pushed the electrostaff closer to his face or was throwing him around hard enough to nearly kill him. This is important to note because while it's a great feat, this is not Obi-Wan's resting strength in a fight. It's very similar to Aryn Leneer's heighted Force perception that was discussed in the other thread. In any case, the other thing Obi-Wan was doing was "working his fingers" on the "dented, joint-loose stomach plate". He then uses both arms, striking with one and yanking the chest plate with the other and it comes free. Suggesting that Obi-Wan simply walked up to Grievous in a non-circumstantial fight, bent his arm out of shape and then ripped open his chest plate is faulty, then, because to lead to this situation Obi-Wan used a weapon he wouldn't have here, powers he shouldn't have, benefited from Grievous himself using the weapon and putting himself in a bad position, and being able to do repeated damage to the joints of the chest plate before he could actually pry it open. This is virtually impossible had Obi-Wan not had the electrostaff at the start of the fight.

4. Grievous then drops the staff and throws Obi-Wan far enough that he was going to go over the cliff, resulting in a BFR. If you are so physically outmatched that you can lose this way, for my money, you're inferior. Obi-Wan uses telekinesis for the second time to anchor himself and in the process completely winds himself. It's then stated that "Obi-Wan still couldn't breathe. He had no hope of rising to meet the general's attack." - so even with all of the circumstances benefiting Obi-Wan up to this point which Maul does not have, he lost this fight. Just on the merit of Grievous' sheer strength.

5. He wins by shooting Grievous in his exposed organs with a blaster he should not have had access to and Maul would not here. Obi-Wan did not win by prying open Grievous' chest plate non-circumstantially and then destroying his organs unarmed... which is what Maul would need to do in this thread... immediately after Obi-Wan had gotten access to the chest plate Grievous hurled him with such force that he was too weakened to continue fighting. So even if by some miracle Maul got the chest plate off he still has to get through Grievous.

As for Maul's Lockdown feats, they are extremely impressive in the sense they are done in a state where is virtually non-Force sensitive (or as close to that as he can get. He had even dulled himself from feeling his Force senses). And Maul's physical abilities are far greater when he is using augmentation (Maul struggled with one wampa H2H... Bruu Jun-Fan who Maul would later oneshot was able to knock out 4 wampas with 4 strikes pretty easily).

That said, none of the injuries or damage Maul soaks is anywhere close to the ballpark of Grievous' damage output, not even close. Every one of Grievous' strikes and slams, as seen in the above quote, could be debilitating. The same is not true of any of Maul's strikes, because Grievous' damage soak is completely ridiculous: effortlessly tanking factory explosions which rocked the surface of a planet, armor tough enough to stop a burst from a laser cannon, strong enough to protect one of his weakest areas from repeated blows from an electrostaff wielded by Obi-Wan and so on.

The exception is Maul's chicken legs from Talzin. Based on the strength he displayed with them (easily breaking Judd's arm, oneshotting Bruu Jun-Fan, throwing Obi-Wan around, pinning Savage to the ground) he now has a real chance to cause damage to Grievous without worrying about things like sustaining blood loss in the process or injuring himself on impact. He could destroy Grievous' arms or potentially damage his chest plate by prying it open similar to how Obi-Wan was able to. That said his upper half is still vulnerable and Grievous still has 6 redundant limbs to Maul's 2 among a host of other physiological advantages. Grievous will cause damage with every strike, stab and slam - Maul can only land a killing blow after bypassing Grievous' martial defences and then ripping opened a very well armored chest plate to then destroy his organ sac.
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 5:03 am
ILS wrote:[Based on the strength he displayed with them (easily breaking Judd's arm, oneshotting Bruu Jun-Fan, throwing Obi-Wan around, pinning Savage to the ground) he now has a real chance to cause damage to Grievous without worrying about things like sustaining blood loss in the process or injuring himself on impact.

You think the blade on Maul's foot could pierce Grievous' armour?
The Lost
The Lost
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 5:09 am
I think a combination of sustained blows and him prying it open with the claws on the end of the foot could, yeah. I don't think he's bursting through it with a kick.
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 5:10 am
ILS wrote: I don't think he's bursting through it with a kick.

Okay good. It sounded like you were saying that.
The Lost
The Lost
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 5:14 am
Not really.
HeartoftheForce
HeartoftheForce
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 5:20 am
Two out of the four instance you cited were kicks. Only one of which was a blunt damage feat, an already beaten up mentally compromised Kenobi tanked them anyway. Maul stabbed Bruu with his claws to kill him. The kick itself was nothing special. the other was just putting weight on an off balance opponent rather than strength. Judd doesn't have any durability feats of note IIRC. So breaking his arm can hardly be compared to possibly breaking the Generals
The Lost
The Lost
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 5:45 am
1. I don't see what relevance Obi-Wan's hindrances have to my point. Maul was kicking him across the room much the same way Grievous would, something Maul cannot do with his regular legs. I also didn't claim Obi-Wan couldn't tank the kicks.

2. The comic indicates there was more of a "crunch" sound on impact than a slice or stab, and there is no blood on Jun-Fan's torso (the comic repeatedly showed blowed/exposed wounds so PG isn't an excuse here).

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Y5j6bxzY_X0y67SDlYBZgdTyAq-YHUJJXJvaJwU_34At0ploqjIxAGDuZ3fdV9YKPWZ0vkoYs9iG=s0

Moreover, my point again was that this is a significant increase in damage output for Maul. Because not only does his legs being stronger help, but them having sharp ends helps with the overall damage caused opposed to a blunt heel. Not to say he could break through Grievous' chest plate in a kick or two (because I didn't say that).

3. Firstly, nothing I said about the Savage feat indicates that I implied what you think I implied. Secondly, while Savage had been wrist-locked painfully, I find it hard to believe that if Maul got a clamp around Grievous' skull and then applied downward force to it he would do any better than Savage, given that Savage appears to be stronger than Grievous. Also, with Savage standing firmly on two feet a decent distance apart with his knees bent (a fighting stance), and with Shadow Conspiracy saying nothing about his balance, your theory seems pretty unsupported.

https://youtu.be/EUevM0XLJLQ?t=120
Savage’s saber howled as he flung himself at his brother in a brutal attack. The assault would have ended with most opponents cut in two and lying on the deck in lifeless halves. But Darth Maul was not most opponents. He parried Savage’s slash effortlessly, their red saber blades sparking and chattering where they came in contact with each other. Then Maul twitched his wrists and spun Savage’s saber out of his hands. A moment later Savage was lying on the deck, pinned by Maul’s metal foot.
―Darth Maul Shadow Conspiracy

4. I mean, I can't remember the last time in a fight with a Jedi as powerful as Judd (holding up the closing blast door with Kenobi's help in which they performed about similarly and then briefly holding it alone, and tripping up Savage which is more than Plo Koon or Gallia can say for themselves) someone just walked up and broke his arm. He was actively augmenting at the time and ready to fight. So no, it is a pretty great strength feat.

Besides, we can infer extreme durability on the part of Jedi (particularly someone like Obi-Wan) by simply looking at what kind of damage Maul and Grievous can cause with their strikes (something I have outlined in great detail for both), and yet when they kick Obi-Wan they cannot always pierce his skin or cause any serious damage, even with direct strikes to the torso.

So, the fact that Maul can very easily break Judd's arm in spite of the durability you can transfer over from how Jedi handle force exerted on their body (strikes that can and have destroyed lightsaber-proof materials and other space age metals), then yeah, I think he can possibly break one of Grievous' arms if he gets the kind of leverage Obi-Wan got. He wouldn't need as much or to pour as much augmentation into breaking the arm either unless you think Maul's chicken leg and Obi-Wan's arm are comparably strong.
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LOTL

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 6:21 am
Is Grevious resistant to strikes by lightsaber? LoE has that by performing glancing strikes by Jedi that have no effect, but you have Obi Wan lopping his arms in ROTS
The Lost
The Lost
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

June 13th 2019, 6:29 am
LOTL wrote:Is Grevious resistant to strikes by lightsaber? LoE has that by performing glancing strikes by Jedi that have no effect, but you have Obi Wan lopping his arms in ROTS
He isn't immune to them but he may just have some meaningful level of resistance to them as you say.

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) 4228563-vs%20rogues10

Honestly seems unlikely though, he probably is just being grazed in these cases.
Mithrandi
Mithrandi

Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

July 1st 2019, 2:32 am
Grievous handily. Badum tss.
CuckedCurry
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

July 1st 2019, 6:42 pm
Grievous obliterates
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Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl) Empty Re: Maul vs Grievous (Unarmed Brawl)

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