Raskta Lsu vs Ven Zallow

Sabers only
All out

No idea...

Zallow via his force advantage

Raskta

mastercilghal wrote:Zallow via his force advantage

Yeah, there's no way that Lsu's skill edge, if any exists, makes up for how badly outmatched she is in the Force.

Raskta's ability to contend with Bane in sabers pretty clearly puts her above Ven. Not sure if he can even phase her with the force, and not sure he'll get the opportunity considering his guard is going to be battered down by her in combat, that and even if he does manage to force push her, considering her strength via augmentation, it is easy to understand that she can tank the attack, not very different from the situation with Grevious and the Jedi he continuously tools in combat.

That is not even factoring Jedi restraint, that likely prevents Ven from using the force on her in a normal playing field

Wasn’t Raksta amped by the Ithorian’s battle mediation?

Not only was she amplified against Bane, she had aid. Without which she would've been eviscerated thrice. Nor is ROT Bane more impressive than Deceived!Malgus who Zallow may well have beaten without the employment of a trick.

Not to mention the fact that the gap between himself and Master Usma, one of the Order's most famed duelists, was such that Malgus didn't even consider Usma worthy of his attention.

Perhaps most impressive for Zallow besides his Malgus showing is that his apprentice Aryn Leneer was obviously far lesser than him without bloodlust and a rage boost. This being a Jedi that without the aforementioned boosts, still had >>FTL perceptions/reactions, and the ability to telekinetically launch a six car tram with apparent ease.

Yeah but the nexus of Tython hindered her, enhancing Bane's abilities too.

She could contend even without the battle meditation though. Farfalla doesn't count since he is literally fodder to him.

Yeah, she had aid as well. Not really looking good for her

Indeed. Raskta, despite the amp and support from Farfalla was completely incapable of achieving anything against Bane, while Zallow force pushed the reasonably powerful Lord Adraas and was implied to be the equal of Malgus. That’s a lot better.

ROT Bane is honestly on another level compared to Malgus on Coruscant

Meatpants wrote:Yeah, she had aid as well. Not really looking good for her

Against Bane's force attacks

She clearly showed that she could contend fine in conventional combat by herself against Bane

@LOTL What makes you think so? ROT Bane is fairly unimpressive

He is arguably the most impressive version of the character. Especially on Tython. Not sure the next version of Bane is that much better than him, if he is at all

But yeah, I see no reason why Ven will even abuse the force against her, even if he does Jedi rarely unleash their full power. Even if he does, he is basically shit compared to Bane so again, not convinced he can do considerable damage to her.

So far, the arguments for Ven have been "Raskta had help, she was amped" etc. though neither of these rob her of her ability to contend with Orbalisk Bane on her own in lightsaber combat

I’d have to read the fight again, it’s quite multi-layered iirc

LOTL wrote:ROT Bane is honestly on another level compared to Malgus on Coruscant

That's not even close to true.

That Malgus scales vastly beyond two jedi who could destroy buildings.

It was one Jedi who could pull down two Alderaani towers. Which are enormous in TOR. Malgus was already so injured he needed critical surgery and then he survived having the buildings dropped on him. Then he stomped the Jedi responsible with Force lightning. Even though the Jedi had two lightsabers to protect himself with.

But then, Malgus on Coruscant matched the 'whining' power of a freighter for so long that his body was covered in sweat before releasing it.

But by far his best TK feat, is long before Coruscant. He's stated to be capable of single-handedly 'shattering' Republic forts. Which are also enormous, but are military-grade fortifications. Not just average buildings.

A wet fart could have brought those buildings down. They had been bombarded already.

That's your best reply? Seriously?

mastercilghal wrote:That Malgus scales vastly beyond two jedi who could destroy buildings.

A sense of frustration that made him want to shout. His personal shuttle roared low over the scorched landscape. Below him, buildings and bodies smoldered in  the ruins of an Alderaani town. Around him, Imperial ships prowled the sky, flying  escort. He tried to unknot his fists, failed. He wanted-  The presence of a light-side Force user bumped up against his Force sensitivity, a  sudden flare in his perception. He looked down and out the viewport. He saw  nothing but charred ruins, rubbled buildings, burnt out vehicles. He pinched the  comlink he wore.

- The Third Lesson

1. This is a town. Not a city or a major population centre. So I see no reason for there to be any buildings of significant note in terms of size.

2. Of the buildings that are there, they're mostly all rubble and already collapsed. So it's not like the Jedi was tearing down buildings. He was likely only tilting structures that were barely standing as is.

3. Malgus is only described to be below "several tonnes" of rubble.

several
/ˈsɛv(ə)r(ə)l/
determiner & pronoun
more than two but not many.

Further lending credence to the lack of material surrounding him.

4. There was only one Jedi that collapsed buildings. The other merely just hid. This is the one that Malgus ragdolled. One who was hiding, suppressing his force power and was taken by surprise. The other Malgus only beat in a saber duel after he collapsed said buildings.It's worth noting that the Jedi was quite capable of stalemating Malgus.

Malgus’s lightsaber traced glittering red arcs through the air. He spun, slashed,  stabbed, pushing the Jedi backwards. But always the Jedi parried. He seemed to be
biding his time.  He was baiting him, Malgus realized. Feigning weakness.

- The Third Lesson

Note this above passage takes place after Malgus' boast he could have "killed the Jedi in any number of ways". Which is clearly invalidated by this revelation that the Zabrak was holding back.

So no Hope Malgus does not vastly scale above "building busters". He can roughly stalemate a jedi who can only move a few tonnes of rubble when rage amped by injuries and humiliation.

Nevermind that Deceived Malgus (who is Zallows only feat) best speed feet is moving at blur speed. Which shock horror he replicates here.

He closed the distance between them rapidly. The red line of Malgus’s lightsaber moved so quickly it blurred into a red smear.

- The Third Lesson

She and Darth Malgus bounded across the ruins of the Temple, their blades flashing, locking, the speed of their duel so fast Zeerid could barely follow their movement.

Deceived

So injury and rage amped Hope Malgus = Deceived Malgus </= Zallow in speed. Though this throws into doubt how much if at all Malgus grew in between the two events at all. So we can more accurately say:

"Malgus, when amped by injuries and rage might scale above a jedi who can tilt over bombed and already ruined buildings"

But even that's in doubt when we consider Malgus' inability to hold down a slowly, vertically rising dropship in Decieved. To be clear the class of dropship he held was capable of holding 20 men at max. The Clone dropships are capable of holding 30 and they're quite small. So there is even counter evidence for his TK specifically increasing.

Woo

Moreover, there is no way in hell the Raskta's BM amp was so powerful it overcame not only Tython's DS nexus. But overshadowed most if not all of the Orbalisks on Bane. The bulk of that would have to indeed be Raskta's power. Which would put her roughly at Mid to EO PoD Bane's tier.

Bane at this time had feats like this

He channeled it through his muscles and limbs, moving so fast it seemed as if time had stopped for the rest of the world. In the blink of an eye he knocked the saber from Sirak's hand, sliced down to shatter his forearm, then spun through and brought his saber crashing into his opponent's lower leg. It splintered under the impact and Sirak screamed as a shard of gleaming white bone sliced through muscle, sinew, and finally skin.

For an instant none of the spectators was even aware of what had happened; it took their minds a moment to catch up and register the blur of action that had occurred so much quicker than their eyes could see.

- Darth Bane: Path of Destruction

Moving faster than a bunch of trained Sith could see. Meanwhile Deceived Malgus is perceptible to base humans.

Raskta would demolish Zallow. And Malgus as well, given that Zallow's inferior speed stymied him. Raskta would be able to lock him down and prevent him from using his force powers and vivisect him.  

Raskta wins.

A sense of frustration that made him want to shout. His personal shuttle roared low over the scorched landscape. Below him, buildings and bodies smoldered in the ruins of an Alderaani town. Around him, Imperial ships prowled the sky, flying escort. He tried to unknot his fists, failed. He wanted-

The presence of a light-side Force user bumped up against his Force sensitivity, a sudden flare in his perception. He looked down and out the viewport. He saw nothing but charred ruins, rubbled buildings, burnt out vehicles. He pinched the comlink he wore.

Pay particular attention to "He saw nothing but" - with a bird's eye view of Alderaan, most if not every building he saw was a smouldering, rubbling, burnt out ruin. Lets keep reading:

As the shuttle wheeled around and slowed, Malgus overrode the safeties and lowered the landing ramp. Wind whipped into the cabin, carrying the smell of a charred planet, a planet Malgus had intended to kill, but instead had only wounded.

Someone had to pay for that.

He took the hilt of his lightsaber in hand and sank into the Force. The burned-out buildings below stuck out of the scorched earth like rotted teeth, crooked and black.

“Hover above the ruins until I return.”

And this is how the feat is described:

He turned to see a male Zabrak, a Jedi, emerge from one of the burned-out buildings that lined the street. The blue line of a lightsaber glowed in each of his hands. He studied Malgus sidelong.

“Malgus,” the Jedi said.

Malgus did not know the Jedi’s name and he did not care. The Zabrak was merely the focus of his anger, a convenient target for his rage.

Malgus fell into the Force, roared, and bounded down the street, his anger lending him speed.

The Jedi held his ground. At twenty meters, the Jedi raised his lightsabers aloft to either side and drew them both down with a flourish.

Too late the rumble of the falling buildings penetrated the haze of Malgus’s anger. An avalanche of duracrete and transparisteel crashed down on him from either side of the street...

So to be clear, Malgus had the buildings dropped on him in the same town that is described in all of the above quotes. In the feat itself, it says the Jedi emerged from one of the buildings that "lined the street", meaning every building on that street was burned out. Malgus ran down the very same street and had two of the very same burnt out buildings dropped on him.

Those buildings, being a rubble of destroyed duracrete/steel, "rumbles" as it begins to fall (because they were not structurally intact and were ready to fall apart"), in what is described as an "avalanche". What does an avalanche look like?



If the buildings were intact, they would not be described as falling apart as a chaotic mass of fragmented sections.

Malgus stood in a pocket under a mountain of rubble, legs bent, the power from his upraised hands preventing several tons of duracrete and steel from crushing him. Dust made his already troubled breathing more difficult. He coughed as the words of his father echoed in his mind.

Instead of holding up a solid chunk of building he's holding up a portion of a mountain of rubble. Only buildings that have been absolutely destroyed could be described as a "mountain of rubble". Lets be very clear what rubble means:

"waste or rough fragments of stone, brick, concrete, etc., especially as the debris from the demolition of buildings."

Waste, rough fragments, especially if from a demolition.

According to the imagery and information given, the Jedi pulled down two buildings which were scorched, burnt-out, blackened, rotted, crooked and described as an avalanche of rubble.

After the building feat debunk I'm unsure tbh.

It was never a thing. Everyone has known about this. Kulvax just started saying it again recently for some reason.