Arcann vs Mace windu

Standard rules

If prime Mace, he stomps. If TCW, he wins in a good fight. If AOTC, he loses in a good to great fight against KOTET Arcann.

Arcann breaks

IG wrote:Arcann breaks

...in half. Agreed.

Leaning Arcann.

@Praxis Why is Arcann beating prime (Office) Mace? I can see an argument for TCW and he definitely beats AOTC, but prime Mace is too far above him. Not to mention that implies you have Unchained Vaylin >>> the ROTS titans in overall combative ability.

@BoD I’m 90% sure he does.

Mace, packing combative skill far beyond what Arcann is set to handle

Arcann, yeah

Mace

Arcann.

RotS Mace because of his proximity with Sidious.

Latham2000 wrote:RotS Mace because of his proximity with Sidious.

Which puts him beyond Arcann because...?

IG wrote:

Latham2000 wrote:RotS Mace because of his proximity with Sidious.

Which puts him beyond Arcann because...?

I'll do that once I've finished my essay on how and why Sidious (and by extension, Mace) can solo near infinite armies of Darth Vader. Be patient.

@HeartoftheForce @BoD Why does Mace win?

Mace

@Meatpants Reason?

BoD wrote:@Praxis Why is Arcann beating prime (Office) Mace? I can see an argument for TCW and he definitely beats AOTC, but prime Mace is too far above him. Not to mention that implies you have Unchained Vaylin >>> the ROTS titans in overall combative ability.

I see numerous problems in that line-of-thought. And I will expand on these in following ways:

1. Mace Windu vs. Palpatine in the latter's office
2. How can WE compare Arcann and Mace Windu

1. Mace Windu vs. Palpatine in the latter's office

Emboldened by the accomplishment of blitzing 3 Jedi Masters in quick succession at close proximity in office environment (significant advantage in speed?), Palpatine felt that he could defeat Mace Windu as well. However, Palpatine didn't realize that Windu stood apart from others in that he had mastered VAPAAD dueling form and could see SHATTERPOINTS on top (a rare combination of talents in one individual). Palpatine ended up contending with Windu on latter's terms therefore, and the outcome was predictable; Palpatine was disarmed and on his knees. 

Palpatine could overwhelm Windu with Force powers (if he had chosen to), but he had to FAKE his defeat in front of Anakin Skywalker in order to lure Anakin to his cause (Palpatine had convinced Anakin that he could help him save Padme [earlier]).

Windu is not unstoppable in single combat as Count Dooku and a few others have shown; confronting Windu on his terms can backfire nevertheless as Palpatine learned the hard way.

2. How can WE compare Arcann and Mace Windu

Arcann is neither a Jedi and nor a Sith; he belongs to a different Order, and our knowledge of his martial talents as well as his command of the Force is limited by extension. WE just know that Arcann have fought and bested any Jedi and/or Sith he came across in the battlefield and otherwise. This lead us to following question: who is the Outlander?

WE do not really know aside from the fact that the Outlander was a veteran of the Great Galactic War, and posited a major threat to Valkorion and by extension the Eternal Empire. The SWTOR game make it possible for a potential player to associate the Outlander with any character class and it is made clear to us that whomsoever is chosen to confront Arcann from among the galaxy's greatest champions of the time including the most powerful Jedi in Hero of Tython and/or the second Emperor's Wrath, the odds are not in your favor. Arcann is able to overwhelm [any] character class in a fight irrespective of the latter's accomplishments and history which is 'extraordinary' in the case of each.

The Outlander was able to defeat Arcann in a fight only after Valkorion had granted him/her incredible powers beyond the capacity of any (corporeal) Jedi and/or Sith. Deep down Valkorion was looking forward to hollow out the Outlander into his next major VESSEL but was prevented from doing so by his own family members when the time came.

Aside from the Outlander (significantly augmented incarnation; SUI in short), only Vaylin was capable of handling Arcann head on. Therefore, one cannot establish superiority of Windu over Arcann with certainty due to the Valkorion factor in the mix.

IG wrote:@Meatpants Reason?

Being close to Yoda and Sidious. I see no evidence Arcann is around that power level, or even skill level either.

Meatpants wrote:

IG wrote:@Meatpants Reason?

Being close to Yoda and Sidious. I see no evidence Arcann is around that power level, or even skill level either.

See my response above.

Arcann tanked fleet-busting Force Storm from Valkorion (This is a feat of raw power and beyond Mace Windu). Arcann is also exceptionally skilled with a lightsaber; no character class is/was able to outduel him. The SWTOR lore go as far as to infer that Jedi and/or Sith exclusive training is not sufficient when up against his children. The Outlander defeats Arcann with powers granted by Valkorion. So...

IG wrote:@HeartoftheForce @BoD Why does Mace win?

Because Mace has rough parity with Yoda and Sidious by ROTS, enough that he can match either in sabers and damn near match them in the Force. Arcann has absolutely nothing comparable to that.

Emboldened by the accomplishment of blitzing 3 Jedi Masters in quick succession at close proximity in office environment (significant advantage in speed?), Palpatine felt that he could defeat Mace Windu as well. However, Palpatine didn't realize that Windu stood apart from others in that he had mastered VAPAAD dueling form and could see SHATTERPOINTS on top (a rare combination of talents in one individual). Palpatine ended up contending with Windu on latter's terms therefore, and the outcome was predictable; Palpatine was disarmed and on his knees. 

Palpatine could overwhelm Windu with Force powers (if he had chosen to), but he had to FAKE his defeat in front of Anakin Skywalker in order to lure Anakin to his cause (Palpatine had convinced Anakin that he could help him save Padme [earlier]).

I'm going to ignore the "Sidious had disadvantages" claims for now and focus on a few points.

First, Sidious literally had the element of surprise. Not one of the Jedi were prepared for how powerful and ferocious he was:

He turned desperately to Saesee Tiin. "Master Tiin—you're the telepath. What am I thinking right now?" Tiin frowned and cocked his head. His blade dipped. A smear of red-flashing darkness hurtled from behind the desk. Saesee Tiin's head bounced when it hit the floor. Smoke curled from the neck, and from the twin stumps of the horns, severed just below the chin.
Kit Fisto gasped, "Saesee!"
The headless corpse, still standing, twisted as its knees buckled, and a thin sigh escaped from its trachea as it folded to the floor.
"It doesn't..." Agen Kolar swayed. His emerald blade shrank away, and the handgrip tumbled from his opening fingers. A small, neat hole in the middle of his forehead leaked smoke, showing light from the back of his head. "...hurt..." He pitched forward onto his face, and lay still.
Palpatine stood at the doorway, but the door stayed shut. From his right hand extended a blade the color of fire. The door locked itself at his back.
"Help! Help!" Palpatine cried like a man in desperate fear for his life. "Security—someone! Help me! Murder! Treason!"
Then he smiled. He held one finger to his lips, and, astonishingly, he winked. In the blank second that followed, while Mace Windu and Kit Fisto could do no more than angle their lightsabers to guard, Palpatine swiftly stepped over the bodies back toward his desk, reversed his blade, and drove it in a swift, surgically precise stab down through his desktop.
"That's enough of that."
He let it burn its way free through the front, then he turned, lifting his weapon, appearing to study it as one might study the face of a beloved friend one has long thought dead. Power gathered around him until the Force shimmered with darkness.
"If you only knew," he said softly, perhaps speaking to the Jedi Masters, or perhaps to himself, or perhaps even to the scarlet blade lifted now as though in mocking salute, "how long I have been waiting for this..."

First, he makes them doubt that he's actually a Sith. Second, he tricks Tiin into lowering his guard. Third, he uses that moment to attack and blitz the two. Fourth, he then tries to kill Windu and Fisto, both of whom match him for a few strikes (which is when Fisto goes down) and Windu continues to hold his own.

Tell me, what do you think is a bigger advantage: using deception to make your opponents lower their guards and then blitzing them so that your surprised opponent has no help, or not knowing someone's fighting style, which is blatantly false. Palpatine was told about Vaapad by Mace and Yoda:


Then he has the services of Dooku, who knew of Vaapad and had duels with Sora (another "master" of it) and who he seduced to the dark side and thus would have fully learned about it, and Quinlan Vos:






So your argument that Sidious didn't know of Vaapad despite 1) being told about it, 2) having an apprentice who knew of it and its capabilities, and 3) had two Vaapad practitioners under his thrall suggests that the idea that Sidious didn't know of Vaapad is, frankly, bull.

 

Windu is not unstoppable in single combat as Count Dooku and a few others have shown;

No Force user is unstoppable, but the Windu Dooku faced was considerably pre-prime and it was a brief duel. Dooku in their short bout on Boz Pity confessed that even pre-ROTS Windu had the potential to kill him:




So I fail to see your point.

confronting Windu on his terms can backfire nevertheless as Palpatine learned the hard way.

It was hardly "on his terms". Sidious had the element of surprise, deceived and killed all of Mace's allies, and had been prepared for the fight. The same can not be said for Windu.

Second, shatterpoints added virtually nothing to the fight for the majority of it. All it did was show Windu that Anakin had arrived and nearly got him killed.

Palpatine could overwhelm Windu with Force powers (if he had chosen to), but he had to FAKE his defeat in front of Anakin Skywalker in order to lure Anakin to his cause (Palpatine had convinced Anakin that he could help him save Padme [earlier]).

You'd have a point, if we didn't know Vaapad is extremely exhausting to use (and Mace was going all out):

Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts. There was no Jedi restraint here. Mace Windu was cutting loose.

Mace's fighting style is incredibly intensive when used to its full capabilities, and can be exhausting. By the end of this, Mace was exhausted. Meanwhile, an enraged Sidious was drawing on deeper and deeper reserves to blast at an exhausted Mace, slowly overwhelming him:

"Save your twisted words, my lord. There are no politicians here. The Sith will never regain control of the Republic. It's over. You've lost." Mace leveled his blade. "You lost for the same reason the Sith always lose: defeated by your own fear."
Palpatine lifted his head. His eyes smoked with hate. "Fool," he said. He lifted his arms, his robes of office spreading wide into raptor's wings, his hands hooking into talons.
"Fool!" His voice was a shout of thunder. "Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"
Lightning blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source. Palpatine staggered, snarling, but the blistering energy that loured from his hands only intensified. He fed the power with his pain.
"Anakin!" Mace called. His voice sounded distant, blurred, as if it came from the bottom of a well. "Anakin, help me! This is your chance!"
He felt Anakin's leap from the office floor to the ledge, felt his approach behind—
And Palpatine was not afraid. Mace could feel it: he wasn't worried at all.
"Destroy this traitor," the Chancellor said, his voice raised aver the howl of writhing energy that joined his hands to Mace's blade. "This was never an arrest. It's an assassination!"
That was when Mace finally understood. He had it. The key to final victory. Palpatine's shatterpoint. The absolute shatterpoint of the Sith. The shatterpoint of the dark side itself. Mace thought, blankly astonished, Palpatine trusts Anakin Skywalker...
Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.
Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."
"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."
Skywalker echoed him faintly. "Destiny..."
"Help me! I can't hold on any longer!" The yellow glare from Palpatine's eyes spread outward through his flesh. His skin flowed like oil, as though the muscle beneath was burning away, as though even the bones of his skull were softening, were bending and bulging, deforming from the heat and pressure of his electric hatred. "He is killing me, Anakin—! Please, Anaaahhh—"
Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—"
"Ahhh—" Palpatine's roar above the endless blast of lightning became a fading moan of despair. The lightning swallowed itself, leaving only the night and the rain, and an old man crumpled to his knees on a slippery ledge. "I... can't. I give up. I... I am too weak, in the end. Too old, and too weak. Don't kill me, Master Jedi. Please. I surrender."
Victory flooded through Mace's aching body. He lifted his blade. "You Sith disease—"

In red is Sidious's lightning growing more and more powerful when Sidious was already enraged and drawing upon excess reserves. Blue is Mace being exhausted from the very beginning. Despite being exhausted from using Vaapad at such a high intensity and drawing upon his power, an exhausted Mace still held off an enraged Sidious' ever increasing power for a considerable amount of time when lightning itself is already incredibly difficult to deal with. Yes, he would have been overwhelmed if Sidious hadn't cut the onslaught, but the rate he was being overwhelmed at was pretty slow in spite of him being exhausted and never having dealt with this level of Force lightning before.

Arcann is neither a Jedi and nor a Sith; he belongs to a different Order, and our knowledge of his martial talents as well as his command of the Force is limited by extension. WE just know that Arcann have fought and bested any Jedi and/or Sith he came across in the battlefield and otherwise.

Meaningless. Name one notable Jedi or Sith Arcann has beaten who's comparable to even Kit Fisto, let alone prime Mace who's a level nine?

This lead us to following question: who is the Outlander?

It's pretty obviously meant to be the HoT.

WE do not really know aside from the fact that the Outlander was a veteran of the Great Galactic War, and posited a major threat to Valkorion and by extension the Eternal Empire. The SWTOR game make it possible for a potential player to associate the Outlander with any character class and it is made clear to us that whomsoever is chosen to confront Arcann from among the galaxy's greatest champions of the time including the most powerful Jedi in Hero of Tython and/or the second Emperor's Wrath, the odds are not in your favor. Arcann is able to overwhelm [any] character class in a fight irrespective of the latter's accomplishments and history which is 'extraordinary' in the case of each.

And? You've yet to substantiate why this makes Arcann even remotely comparable to Mace.

The Outlander was able to defeat Arcann in a fight only after Valkorion had granted him/her incredible powers beyond the capacity of any (corporeal) Jedi and/or Sith.

Uh, what? The Force storm is far from "beyond the capacity of any (corporeal) Jedi and/or Sith." I've absolutely no idea where you're getting this from.

Deep down Valkorion was looking forward to hollow out the Outlander into his next major VESSEL but was prevented from doing so by his own family members when the time came.

I've played KOTFE and KOTET around 4 times now. I don't need you to explain the story to me.

Aside from the Outlander (significantly augmented incarnation; SUI in short), only Vaylin was capable of handling Arcann head on.

First, the extent of Valk's enhancement versus the Outlander's continuous growth (which he'd nowhere near reached) is ambiguous at best. Second, why is "only Vaylin" being capable of fighting Arcann relevant? Chained Vaylin was stalemating a much more powerful Arcann than the KOTFE one, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.

Therefore, one cannot establish superiority of Windu over Arcann with certainty due to the Valkorion factor in the mix.

Uh, you really can.

Arcann

BoD wrote:

Emboldened by the accomplishment of blitzing 3 Jedi Masters in quick succession at close proximity in office environment (significant advantage in speed?), Palpatine felt that he could defeat Mace Windu as well. However, Palpatine didn't realize that Windu stood apart from others in that he had mastered VAPAAD dueling form and could see SHATTERPOINTS on top (a rare combination of talents in one individual). Palpatine ended up contending with Windu on latter's terms therefore, and the outcome was predictable; Palpatine was disarmed and on his knees. 

Palpatine could overwhelm Windu with Force powers (if he had chosen to), but he had to FAKE his defeat in front of Anakin Skywalker in order to lure Anakin to his cause (Palpatine had convinced Anakin that he could help him save Padme [earlier]).

I'm going to ignore the "Sidious had disadvantages" claims for now and focus on a few points.

First, Sidious literally had the element of surprise. Not one of the Jedi were prepared for how powerful and ferocious he was:

He turned desperately to Saesee Tiin. "Master Tiin—you're the telepath. What am I thinking right now?" Tiin frowned and cocked his head. His blade dipped. A smear of red-flashing darkness hurtled from behind the desk. Saesee Tiin's head bounced when it hit the floor. Smoke curled from the neck, and from the twin stumps of the horns, severed just below the chin.
Kit Fisto gasped, "Saesee!"
The headless corpse, still standing, twisted as its knees buckled, and a thin sigh escaped from its trachea as it folded to the floor.
"It doesn't..." Agen Kolar swayed. His emerald blade shrank away, and the handgrip tumbled from his opening fingers. A small, neat hole in the middle of his forehead leaked smoke, showing light from the back of his head. "...hurt..." He pitched forward onto his face, and lay still.
Palpatine stood at the doorway, but the door stayed shut. From his right hand extended a blade the color of fire. The door locked itself at his back.
"Help! Help!" Palpatine cried like a man in desperate fear for his life. "Security—someone! Help me! Murder! Treason!"
Then he smiled. He held one finger to his lips, and, astonishingly, he winked. In the blank second that followed, while Mace Windu and Kit Fisto could do no more than angle their lightsabers to guard, Palpatine swiftly stepped over the bodies back toward his desk, reversed his blade, and drove it in a swift, surgically precise stab down through his desktop.
"That's enough of that."
He let it burn its way free through the front, then he turned, lifting his weapon, appearing to study it as one might study the face of a beloved friend one has long thought dead. Power gathered around him until the Force shimmered with darkness.
"If you only knew," he said softly, perhaps speaking to the Jedi Masters, or perhaps to himself, or perhaps even to the scarlet blade lifted now as though in mocking salute, "how long I have been waiting for this..."

First, he makes them doubt that he's actually a Sith. Second, he tricks Tiin into lowering his guard. Third, he uses that moment to attack and blitz the two. Fourth, he then tries to kill Windu and Fisto, both of whom match him for a few strikes (which is when Fisto goes down) and Windu continues to hold his own.

Tell me, what do you think is a bigger advantage: using deception to make your opponents lower their guards and then blitzing them so that your surprised opponent has no help, or not knowing someone's fighting style, which is blatantly false. Palpatine was told about Vaapad by Mace and Yoda:


Then he has the services of Dooku, who knew of Vaapad and had duels with Sora (another "master" of it) and who he seduced to the dark side and thus would have fully learned about it, and Quinlan Vos:






So your argument that Sidious didn't know of Vaapad despite 1) being told about it, 2) having an apprentice who knew of it and its capabilities, and 3) had two Vaapad practitioners under his thrall suggests that the idea that Sidious didn't know of Vaapad is, frankly, bull.

 

Windu is not unstoppable in single combat as Count Dooku and a few others have shown;

No Force user is unstoppable, but the Windu Dooku faced was considerably pre-prime and it was a brief duel. Dooku in their short bout on Boz Pity confessed that even pre-ROTS Windu had the potential to kill him:




So I fail to see your point.

confronting Windu on his terms can backfire nevertheless as Palpatine learned the hard way.

It was hardly "on his terms". Sidious had the element of surprise, deceived and killed all of Mace's allies, and had been prepared for the fight. The same can not be said for Windu.

Second, shatterpoints added virtually nothing to the fight for the majority of it. All it did was show Windu that Anakin had arrived and nearly got him killed.

Palpatine could overwhelm Windu with Force powers (if he had chosen to), but he had to FAKE his defeat in front of Anakin Skywalker in order to lure Anakin to his cause (Palpatine had convinced Anakin that he could help him save Padme [earlier]).

You'd have a point, if we didn't know Vaapad is extremely exhausting to use (and Mace was going all out):

Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts. There was no Jedi restraint here. Mace Windu was cutting loose.

Mace's fighting style is incredibly intensive when used to its full capabilities, and can be exhausting. By the end of this, Mace was exhausted. Meanwhile, an enraged Sidious was drawing on deeper and deeper reserves to blast at an exhausted Mace, slowly overwhelming him:

"Save your twisted words, my lord. There are no politicians here. The Sith will never regain control of the Republic. It's over. You've lost." Mace leveled his blade. "You lost for the same reason the Sith always lose: defeated by your own fear."
Palpatine lifted his head. His eyes smoked with hate. "Fool," he said. He lifted his arms, his robes of office spreading wide into raptor's wings, his hands hooking into talons.
"Fool!" His voice was a shout of thunder. "Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"
Lightning blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source. Palpatine staggered, snarling, but the blistering energy that loured from his hands only intensified. He fed the power with his pain.
"Anakin!" Mace called. His voice sounded distant, blurred, as if it came from the bottom of a well. "Anakin, help me! This is your chance!"
He felt Anakin's leap from the office floor to the ledge, felt his approach behind—
And Palpatine was not afraid. Mace could feel it: he wasn't worried at all.
"Destroy this traitor," the Chancellor said, his voice raised aver the howl of writhing energy that joined his hands to Mace's blade. "This was never an arrest. It's an assassination!"
That was when Mace finally understood. He had it. The key to final victory. Palpatine's shatterpoint. The absolute shatterpoint of the Sith. The shatterpoint of the dark side itself. Mace thought, blankly astonished, Palpatine trusts Anakin Skywalker...
Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.
Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."
"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade. "Take him. It's your destiny."
Skywalker echoed him faintly. "Destiny..."
"Help me! I can't hold on any longer!" The yellow glare from Palpatine's eyes spread outward through his flesh. His skin flowed like oil, as though the muscle beneath was burning away, as though even the bones of his skull were softening, were bending and bulging, deforming from the heat and pressure of his electric hatred. "He is killing me, Anakin—! Please, Anaaahhh—"
Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—"
"Ahhh—" Palpatine's roar above the endless blast of lightning became a fading moan of despair. The lightning swallowed itself, leaving only the night and the rain, and an old man crumpled to his knees on a slippery ledge. "I... can't. I give up. I... I am too weak, in the end. Too old, and too weak. Don't kill me, Master Jedi. Please. I surrender."
Victory flooded through Mace's aching body. He lifted his blade. "You Sith disease—"

In red is Sidious's lightning growing more and more powerful when Sidious was already enraged and drawing upon excess reserves. Blue is Mace being exhausted from the very beginning. Despite being exhausted from using Vaapad at such a high intensity and drawing upon his power, an exhausted Mace still held off an enraged Sidious' ever increasing power for a considerable amount of time when lightning itself is already incredibly difficult to deal with. Yes, he would have been overwhelmed if Sidious hadn't cut the onslaught, but the rate he was being overwhelmed at was pretty slow in spite of him being exhausted and never having dealt with this level of Force lightning before.

Arcann is neither a Jedi and nor a Sith; he belongs to a different Order, and our knowledge of his martial talents as well as his command of the Force is limited by extension. WE just know that Arcann have fought and bested any Jedi and/or Sith he came across in the battlefield and otherwise.

Meaningless. Name one notable Jedi or Sith Arcann has beaten who's comparable to even Kit Fisto, let alone prime Mace who's a level nine?

This lead us to following question: who is the Outlander?

It's pretty obviously meant to be the HoT.

WE do not really know aside from the fact that the Outlander was a veteran of the Great Galactic War, and posited a major threat to Valkorion and by extension the Eternal Empire. The SWTOR game make it possible for a potential player to associate the Outlander with any character class and it is made clear to us that whomsoever is chosen to confront Arcann from among the galaxy's greatest champions of the time including the most powerful Jedi in Hero of Tython and/or the second Emperor's Wrath, the odds are not in your favor. Arcann is able to overwhelm [any] character class in a fight irrespective of the latter's accomplishments and history which is 'extraordinary' in the case of each.

And? You've yet to substantiate why this makes Arcann even remotely comparable to Mace.

The Outlander was able to defeat Arcann in a fight only after Valkorion had granted him/her incredible powers beyond the capacity of any (corporeal) Jedi and/or Sith.

Uh, what? The Force storm is far from "beyond the capacity of any (corporeal) Jedi and/or Sith." I've absolutely no idea where you're getting this from.

Deep down Valkorion was looking forward to hollow out the Outlander into his next major VESSEL but was prevented from doing so by his own family members when the time came.

I've played KOTFE and KOTET around 4 times now. I don't need you to explain the story to me.

Aside from the Outlander (significantly augmented incarnation; SUI in short), only Vaylin was capable of handling Arcann head on.

First, the extent of Valk's enhancement versus the Outlander's continuous growth (which he'd nowhere near reached) is ambiguous at best. Second, why is "only Vaylin" being capable of fighting Arcann relevant? Chained Vaylin was stalemating a much more powerful Arcann than the KOTFE one, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here.

Therefore, one cannot establish superiority of Windu over Arcann with certainty due to the Valkorion factor in the mix.

Uh, you really can.

Palpatine's element of surprise:-

Palpatine's element of surprise didn't work on Mace Windu, did it?

Being 'aware' of VAAPAD is different from developing a counter to it, and Palpatine clearly didn't. Count Dooku knowing about VAAPAD doesn't suggest that he helped Palpatine develop a counter to it (why would he? Sith tend to be selfish and untrustworthy in their ways). Palpatine simply believed that he was equipped to handle any Jedi he might cross paths with.

Sora Bulq and Quinlan Vos:-

Sora Bulq and Quinlan Vos were practitioners of VAAPAD as well but neither was mentally prepared to make the most out of this SKILL because each continued to FEAR the DARK SIDE in personal capacity; Count Dooku noticed as much while engaging each and capitalized on this dynamic to his advantage via Dun Möch. A lightsaber duel is as much a mental effort as it is physical for any Force-user; technicalities of dueling are useless without appropriate frame of mind to guide one's actions.

In sharp contrast:

There was a time when Mace Windu had feared the power of the dark; there was a time when he had feared the darkness in himself. But the Clone Wars had given him a gift of understanding: on a world called Haruun Kal, he had faced his darkness and had learned that the power of darkness is not to be feared.
He had learned that it is fear that gives the darkness power.

He was not afraid. The darkness had no power over him. But-
Neither did he have power over it.
Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that
expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse.

Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.
The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. While his blade spun and crackled, while his feet slid and his weight shifted and his shoulders turned in precise curves of their own direction, his mind slid along the circuit of dark power, tracing it back to its limitless source.
Feeling for its shatterpoint.
He found a knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the now-And it led him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the
Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead.
The chosen one was here.
Mace disengaged from the shadow's blade and leapt for the window; he slashed away the transparisteel with a single flourish.
His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outside. He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear.

Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge.
Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop.
Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete.

Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half.

Quoted from the Episode III Novelization

Take a good look at the aforementioned quote and its highlighted parts. Following observations are apparent in the entire passage.

1) Mace Windu was the only practitioner of VAAPAD to overcome its mental inhibitions (i.e. MASTERED this dueling form in its true spirit and capacity); this quality enabled the Jedi to handle a relatively superior opponent in Palpatine on equal footing (the 'superconducting loop' effect), and the Jedi wasn't experiencing stress and fatigue while at it.

2) In light of the above, Vaapad is no longer exhausting for Windu to use.

3) While VAAPAD made it possible for Windu to duel Palpatine on equal footing, the Jedi had another talent up his sleeve which he also put to good use in this duel (i.e. ability to see shatterpoints). Windu saw following shatterpoints; (a) arrival of Anakin Skywalker; and (b) nearby office window would help him break the impasse with Palpatine. Windu capitalized on option (b) and it worked because Palpatine lost his control while attempting to duel Windu over the slippery permacrete of the office window; Palpatine's FEAR of loosing his balance at this point was his undoing and Windu disarmed him on the spot.

Therefore, my assertion is valid and substantiated. Palpatine ended up contending with Windu on latter's terms instead, and the outcome was predictable; Palpatine was disarmed and on his knees. Palpatine should have considered using his Force powers to overwhelm Windu instead. For instance, when Windu leapt for the window, Palpatine should have called upon his telekinetic powers to dislodge Windu from the window right then and there but he didn't (ERROR of JUDGEMENT).

Palpatine subjecting Windu to Force lightning while on his knees was less effective approach to negate Windu's talents with a lightsaber, although Windu was certainly stressed and fatigued by his efforts to cope with a powerful stream of Force lightning. Nevertheless, since Anakin was now in sight and willing to intervene, Palpatine capitalized on this development to his advantage. Unfortunately, Windu wasn't thinking clearly at this point [misunderstood the significance of option (a)] and ended up loosing his life.

Windu the Unstoppable?

Windu managed to disarm Palpatine in the latter's office but this outcome doesn't suggest that Windu would be able to defeat Palpatine (or another extremely capable opponent) in every situation imagined.

Windu's talents are undeniably formidable but some people have taken his performance against Palpatine in the latter's office as being indicative of his infallibility in single combat, and therefore drawing shortsighted conclusions that Arcann cannot defeat him or is not up to the task. As I have established above, Palpatine's ERROR of JUDGEMENT was a contributing factor in his lack of breakthrough in this fight. It is important to pay attention to minute details and circumstances of each confrontation to draw more informed conclusions.

EXPERIENCE is a good teacher nevertheless, and Palpatine made better use of his powers while up against a more powerful Jedi in Yoda subsequently.

Arcann vs. Jedi and/or Sith

SWTOR (KoTFE) story and lore give the impression that virtually no Jedi and/or Sith in the galaxy stood a chance against Arcann in single combat. This theory is put to the test in the shoes of the Outlander with [any] character class and corresponding champion.

Let us consider the Jedi Knight class (Hero of Tython) for the sake of argument here.

"Hero of Tython has become the Jedi Order's Battlemaster after saving the Republic from many nefarious plots by the evil Sith Emperor. On countless planets, this champion of the Force is all that stands between helpless innocents and the enemy's conquest. But a terrible new threat has emerged at the galaxy's farthest edge, forcing an unlikely alliance between Hero of Tython and old foes...."

NOTE: Hero of Tython is the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy.

1st battle:-



Ignoring gameplay mechanics, WE notice following:-

1. Arcann disarmed Hero of Tython early on with his telekinetic abilities.
2. Arcann send Hero of Tython crashing into a wall with his telekinetic abilities.
3. A starship crash disrupted the fight and a massive pillar fell over Arcann consequently.

That pillar would have a mass in tonnage and it wasn't enough to harm Arcann.

2nd battle:-



Ignoring gameplay mechanics, WE notice following:-

1. Hero of Tython evades Arcann's sneak attack from behind.
2. Arcann nearly ragdolls Hero of Tython with his telekinetic abilities.
3. Hero of Tython is able to Force-push Arcann.
4. HK-55 joins Hero of Tython in this fight.
5. Arcann knocks off Hero of Tython again and destroy HK-55 with a blast of power.
6. Arcann corner Hero of Tython but Valkorion intervenes.
7. Valkorion subjects Arcann to a Force Storm with sufficient potency to destroy a fleet of starships operating above but Arcann is able to hold his ground and bend lightning bolts in other directions. This is phenomenal display of raw power from Arcann because even the mighty Revan (Reborn) was not up to the task in this capacity centuries earlier.
8. Valkorion then subjects Arcann to a Dark Blast to knock him off the platform.

If Valkorion had not intervened then;



- Arcann make use of his telekinetic abilities once more to impale the Hero of Tython but one of the latter's allies is able bring down a massive object over Arcann, knocking him off the platform.

Hero of Tython is so strong that he is able to endure a lightsaber stab through him and live to tell the tale; majority will drop dead at this moment if in the same boat.

Jedi Master Kit Fisto is very low on the totem pole in comparison to champions of TOR. Arcann could virtually manhandle the likes of Hero of Tython; imagine what Arcann would do to the likes of Kit Fisto. I do not think that I have to expand on the core competencies and accomplishments of the Hero of Tython?

Why the Jedi and/or Sith failed to defeat Arcann? Jedi Master Satele Shan provided some answers:-




Arcann is arguably stronger than Revan (Reborn) and incorporate Force powers in his attacks to devastating effect in a combat situation. Furthermore, his talents are not completely understood given that he is from a different Order (neither Jedi and nor a Sith). These credentials are not enough for Windu?

So how the tide turns?

Valkorion grant incredible powers to the Outlander:



You have played KoTFE 4 times, right? You should know better then.

Windu based on having superior feats against a overall better forcé user(sidious)