Starkiller vs Ivaar workan

Standard rules

Likely Workan. Contending with FotJ Luke (regardless of his being restricted) is a drastically more impressive combative demonstration than matching pre-ANH Vader (who's described as a shadow of his former self when compared to AotC Anakin, and is confirmed as a far inferior duelist in ANH as compared with ESB), so long as Ivaar can navigate SK's likely superior raw-power he dominates a duel.

@Tondemonai

Likely Workan. Contending with FotJ Luke (regardless of his being restricted) is a drastically more impressive combative demonstration than matching pre-ANH Vader (who's described as a shadow of his former self when compared to AotC Anakin, and is confirmed as a far inferior duelist in ANH as compared with ESB), so long as Ivaar can navigate SK's likely superior raw-power he dominates a duel.

The underlined lacks heavy context. In TFU Vader matched Galen when the latter was hindered by emotional/psychological factors, and in TFU 2 Vader matched an exhausted Starkiller who had just prior demonstrated vast superiority by wiping out a force far superior to Vader in the army of Starkiller Clones.

OT - Contending with Grandjobber Luke Skywalker isn't enough to seal Workan the win. SK has pretty much better feats overall.

Workan wins; Starkiller scales under Vader via his and Palpatine's "strongest in the galaxy" quotes.

Geistalt wrote:Workan wins; Starkiller scales under Vader via his and Palpatine's "strongest in the galaxy" quotes.

Cite me one of those quotes that applies during the timeframe of TFU or TFU 2.

NotAA3 wrote:@Tondemonai

Likely Workan. Contending with FotJ Luke (regardless of his being restricted) is a drastically more impressive combative demonstration than matching pre-ANH Vader (who's described as a shadow of his former self when compared to AotC Anakin, and is confirmed as a far inferior duelist in ANH as compared with ESB), so long as Ivaar can navigate SK's likely superior raw-power he dominates a duel.

The underlined lacks heavy context. In TFU Vader matched Galen when the latter was hindered by emotional/psychological factors, and in TFU 2 Vader matched an exhausted Starkiller who had just prior demonstrated vast superiority by wiping out a force far superior to Vader in the army of Starkiller Clones.

OT - Contending with Grandjobber Luke Skywalker isn't enough to seal Workan the win. SK has pretty much better feats overall.

The context doesn't discount that SK has never demonstrated the technical skill necessary to compete with GM Luke in any capacity, the likelihood of peak SK being a greater duelist than peak Vader is highly unlikely imo. A swordmaster of Maul's esteem would be necessary to not get absolutely clowned in a duel imo, which I'd argue Workan easily scales to via being >> Viun Gaalan, who's supposedly ~ Kyle & Kyp as a duelist.

@Tondemonai

The context doesn't discount that SK has never demonstrated the technical skill necessary to compete with GM Luke in any capacity,

This is a goalpost switch from your initial claim. Your entire case for proving SK's lack of duelling ability relative to Workan rested on the idea that he was comparable to ANH Vader, and now that the claim has been proven false - with my rebuttal going uncontested by you - you've moved the goalpost to "well, he's never demonstrated the level of skill required to take on GM Luke" which is a total non-argument and doesn't actually prove he can't "compete with Luke in any capacity" - your chief claim for Workan winning.

the likelihood of peak SK being a greater duelist than peak Vader is highly unlikely imo.

Why? This is kind of important to your argument - if you even call it that - and you've provided no rationale for it. Also, speaking of Vader:

(who's described as a shadow of his former self when compared to AotC Anakin, and is confirmed as a far inferior duelist in ANH as compared with ESB

Citation needed for him being sub-AOTC Anakin.

A swordmaster of Maul's esteem would be necessary to not get absolutely clowned in a duel imo,

And as of right now, you've given me 0 reasons to believe SK is sub-Maul in Lightsaber combat, nor that being Maul level in sabers is the requirement for being able to somewhat compete with GM Luke.

which I'd argue Workan easily scales to via being >> Viun Gaalan, who's supposedly ~ Kyle & Kyp as a duelist.

Once again: why? In what way does Workan scaling above Gaalan who "might" have been a match for Kyle or Kyp prove he's Maul level in sabers?

I wouldn't call anything I've put forward an argument so much as lazily stating claims in line with my placements lol. I'll probably have time for an actually effortful response later today. Hopefully this won't turn into another instance like my debate with Az back in December/January where I don't log onto this forum for 3 months kuz of school lmao (sorry Az if you're reading this).