Starkiller and Rahm Kota vs ROTS Kenobi and TPM Qui gon jinn

Standard rules

Kenobi solos

Starkiller solos.

Kenobi can solo. Jinn might stomp Kota in sabers.

In sabers, team 2 wins with Kenobi carrying. In the Force, SK smacks the everliving crap out of the two.

Qui-Gon scales above Starkiller and Kota by a significant margin, he solos.

Oh yes Qui-gon having an insider quote referring to the idea that the prequels characters will "demonstrate" greater power and skill on stage as a result of improved technology automatically makes every single PT member qui-gon included above Vader. Your in college dude, take the common sense class if they offer one

> Korriban wrote:Oh yes Qui-gon having an insider quote referring to the idea that the prequels characters will "demonstrate" greater power and skill on stage as a result of improved technology automatically makes every single PT member qui-gon included above Vader. Your in college dude, take the common sense class if they offer one

Don't wanna be that guy, but you should take a literacy class for basic sentence structure and correct use of words (your vs you're; its vs it's).

Regarding the Insider quote, not only is it C-canon and thus binding to continuity, it in no way states that all the prequel Jedi are > Vader. Read it.

Uh huh, I need a literacy class? Bro can you comprehend a fucking sentence?



The quote says Qui-Gon is the first instance in which it is proven "the Jedi of the prequels" (it doesn't specify specific jedi) are all more powerful and more skilled than those of the classic trilogy. Hmmm, guess I read that wrong bucko

It says the fight is proof that Jedi would demonstrate power and dueling that is > Vader. This doesn't read as the fight being proof that "all Jedi" are > Vader. The fight is a baseline, so-to-speak. In other words, anyone better than Maul and Qui-Gon are also > Vader, but anyone below them can't be measured against Vader via this quote.

Your adding your own spin on the quote. It says jedi "would yes" because the article is talking about the upcoming films with jedi in them and they "would" because of the "prime of the jedi" unfortunately this statement hasn't aged well given how Vader is a PT jedi slaughter monster during the purge.

So you have a quote that semantically implies all the Jedi of the PT would be > Vader which was true for the time but was retconned by every single post 2005 source depicting Vader slaughtering armies of the pt jedi. If you really want to keep spinning quotes like this there is no point to talk to you the quote is clear in its intention that "the jedi of the prequels" will show greater skill and power than those of the OT, and if we aren't assuming "jedi" refers to those of the jedi religion then you have to throw ROTJ Sheev in there with the people that are less skilled and powerful.

All this entire interaction accomplished was you showing the world how you can fit your ignorance and the lore together to align with your bias.

What are you talking about? How does it refer to all the Jedi in the prequels when it does not indicate "all the Jedi" in the wording? It says the fight is proof that - Jedi - Would - be more powerful than Vader. That's not all-inclusive. If it read "that the Jedi from the prequels" you would be correct since it refers to the Jedi collectively. However, the quote is only saying that the fight is the first one of several where Jedi demonstrated far more power and agility than Vader.

It literally does read "the jedi from the prequels would demonstrate greater skill and power"

Nowhere does that say the "main" jedi or "primary jedi" it's just saying that the jedi we see in the prequels are more skilled and powerful. Since it does not exclude the other jedi It's fair game and semantically correct to interpert the quote as "all jedi from the prequels" will show greater skill and power and they do from a film standpoint they do a whole hell of a lot more on screen than Vader or Luke or Ben ever did and they have one of the finest lightsaber choreographers ever directing them so yes on screen in terms of film (which is what the article is referencing) the PT jedi demonstrate more flashy and extravagant moves, the problem is, while on film Luke can barely lift an X-wing and Yoda can barely move a small pylon Dooku sends after ani and obi in the EU luke is ragdolling ATSTs and Yoda is ragdolling CIS landingships and those are some of the tamer feats they "demonstrate." So even If I were to concede the quote refers to only Qui-gon, the quote itself isn't valid in terms of the full canon. Reconciliation mother fucker do you speak it?

There’s no “the”. It does not specify the Jedi specifically, only that Jedi would demonstrate superiority over Vader in the movies. Since we’re given the Tatooine fight as the example, then any Jedi better than them is also better than Vader.

So TPM Kenobi and Jinn are >80% of ROTS Sidious, yet a more powerful and skilled Kenobi was being stomped by AOTC Dooku. Guess AOTC Dooku ~ ROTS Sidious despite him being considerably inferior per dozens of sources and Lucas himself.

@BoD Vader has the potential to be 80% of Sheev. And 80% is utterly unquantifiable.

Vader has the potential to be 80% of Sheev.

Blatantly not true:

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful, but he ended up losing his arms and a leg and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there's not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he's maybe 20 percent less than the Emperor. So that isn't what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side. You'll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no."



He's explicitly distinguishing between potential and current power. KFV ~ ROTS Sidious, and now (as in his full power) has declined to 80% of Sidious. That's not a reference to potential since we know for a fact suited Vader has the same potential more or less as KFV, it's only blocked by countless mental barriers.

We then have several sources confirming even by 19 BBY Vader with his hindered potential was capable of growing to be a threat to Sidious, so it's pretty clear is meant to mean "very powerful but not quite strong enough and obviously not as powerful as Sidious."

And 80% is utterly unquantifiable.

It's enough to know that Vader is capable of posing a threat to Sidious (supported by countless sources) and at least not in ragdoll territory of ROTS Sidious. It doesn't even need to be quantifiable for this, anyway. 

By George's logic, Vader is 80% of ROTS Sidious. TPM Kenobi is above him, putting him >80%. Dooku then toyed with and stomped a considerably stronger Obi-Wan, and was ~ AOTC Dooku. Dooku then grew noticeably more powerful between AOTC and ROTS...yet he can't contend with ROTS Sidious. 

Pretty clear that the TPM Kenobi/Jinn > Vader scaling is a crock load of bull.

@Meatpants I could just be reading too much into it, and maybe the simplest explanation is just Jinn >> Vader, but why does the quote necessitate such? Jinn's demonstration can still be proof that some PT Jedi will be >> the OT Jedi even under the assumption that it's inferior to what Vader or Luke accomplished because Jinn isn't at the top of PT Jedi rankings - there's room for others to scale above him (i.e. those Jedi could be >> Vader, based on them being much better than Jinn whose performance against Maul indicates reasonable closeness to Vader). For example, if:

-A Jedi in the KOTOR era - called Meatpants - struggled to lift a stone weighing 95kg
-A Jedi from the PT era struggled just as much to lift a stone weighing 100kg
-The former Jedi scales down massively from other Jedi who are several one-shot gaps above him

...you'd certainly say: "Meatpants's feat - of lifting a stone weighing 95kg - was the first proof that the KOTOR era Jedi would demonstrate far more power than the Jedi from the Prequel Trilogy."

BoD wrote:So TPM Kenobi and Jinn are >80% of ROTS Sidious, yet a more powerful and skilled Kenobi was being stomped by AOTC Dooku. Guess AOTC Dooku ~ ROTS Sidious despite him being considerably inferior per dozens of sources and Lucas himself.

So we're taking Lucas pulling a random number out of his ass an accurate ballpark figure of Vader's actualised power relative to the Emperor? Even if we did, it doesn't help your point at all, since Lucas also said Sidious could have killed Luke and Vader with a snap of his fingers, so clearly the difference of 20% on Lucas' scale is exponentially huge since of course, you must be exponentially more powerful to ragdoll someone.

Can you also substantiate why TPM Kenobi and Jinn are equal in skill and power? Or by extension, why AOTC Kenobi is more skilled and powerful than Qui-Gon?

why derailing the topic with the casual bull argument of jinn >vader? 

on topic: 
in sabers team two smacks.
force: sk solos
all out giving a slight edge to team 1 since starkiller can beat the ever living shit of anyone in team 2

NotAA3 wrote:@Meatpants I could just be reading too much into it, and maybe the simplest explanation is just Jinn >> Vader, but why does the quote necessitate such? Jinn's demonstration can still be proof that some PT Jedi will be >> the OT Jedi even under the assumption that it's inferior to what Vader or Luke accomplished because Jinn isn't at the top of PT Jedi rankings - there's room for others to scale above him (i.e. those Jedi could be >> Vader, based on them being much better than Jinn whose performance against Maul indicates reasonable closeness to Vader). For example, if:

-A Jedi in the KOTOR era - called Meatpants - struggled to lift a stone weighing 95kg
-A Jedi from the PT era struggled just as much to lift a stone weighing 100kg
-The former Jedi scales down massively from other Jedi who are several one-shot gaps above him

...you'd certainly say: "Meatpants's feat - of lifting a stone weighing 95kg - was the first proof that the KOTOR era Jedi would demonstrate far more power than the Jedi from the Prequel Trilogy."

Sure, you may be able to interpret it that way, even though it's more convoluted. At best, it means Jinn and Maul are comparable to prime suit Vader and ROTJ Luke.

IG wrote:@BoD Vader has the potential to be 80% of Sheev. And 80% is utterly unquantifiable.

80% is already quantified. 80% of Sheev.