Darth Vader vs Asajj Ventress (Force only)

TheNuisanceBird wrote:On the topic of Legends Vader's placement, I typically put him with Dooku and ROTS Kenobi, just under ROTS Mace. He's not Ventress level, but he's nowhere near where lots of people on YouTube put him.

The lord of hunger wrote:i have suited vader to be>windu actually but still below KFV,sidious and yoda

BoD wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:i have suited vader to be>windu actually but still below KFV,sidious and yoda

Windu's a tier 9. Vader's a tier 8. Windu is in the same league as KFV, Sidious and Yoda. Vader's not.

Latham2000 wrote:The only statements that Lucas makes that denigrate Vader is saying that he's less powerful than pre-suit Vader, but Lucas considers pre-suit Vader to be as strong as the Emperor, so there's no shame in that. He did also make those OT fighters are not real Jedi comments... But that's because they're not as energetic/flamboyant, which has something to do with the fact that Ben Kenobi prematurely aged and was heavily out of practice, Vader is mainly a Djem So fighter, Luke rips off Vader's technique, Sidious and Yoda have stopped using lightsabers.

The lord of hunger wrote:

Latham2000 wrote:The only statements that Lucas makes that denigrate Vader is saying that he's less powerful than pre-suit Vader, but Lucas considers pre-suit Vader to be as strong as the Emperor, so there's no shame in that. He did also make those OT fighters are not real Jedi comments... But that's because they're not as energetic/flamboyant, which has something to do with the fact that Ben Kenobi prematurely aged and was heavily out of practice, Vader is mainly a Djem So fighter, Luke rips off Vader's technique, Sidious and Yoda have stopped using lightsabers.

Latham2000 wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:

Latham2000 wrote:The only statements that Lucas makes that denigrate Vader is saying that he's less powerful than pre-suit Vader, but Lucas considers pre-suit Vader to be as strong as the Emperor, so there's no shame in that. He did also make those OT fighters are not real Jedi comments... But that's because they're not as energetic/flamboyant, which has something to do with the fact that Ben Kenobi prematurely aged and was heavily out of practice, Vader is mainly a Djem So fighter, Luke rips off Vader's technique, Sidious and Yoda have stopped using lightsabers.

Were you going to say something?

IG wrote:@Latham2000 Resurrection too, tbf. Also there's the Hidalgo statement (on behalf of Lucas) saying he's < AOTC Anakin (that's disputable though). Also, Lucas says "clearly, we haven't seen anything", in regards to combat, generally, comparing OT to PT.

The lord of hunger wrote:

BoD wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:i have suited vader to be>windu actually but still below KFV,sidious and yoda

Windu's a tier 9. Vader's a tier 8. Windu is in the same league as KFV, Sidious and Yoda. Vader's not.

actual author statement declaring vader is a tier 8? becuase if not im still supporting silver and nova s debunk against windu yes 

> Korriban wrote:It appears my OT vs PT blog is needed now more than ever 

Latham2000 wrote:@IG

All what Resurrection shows us is that ANH Vader is inferior to TPM Maul in skill, speed and agility, but not in Force power, while Vader, who is very keen on killing Maul, does try using Force based attacks to kill Maul in two instances, whereas Maul doesn't, but this doesn't prove that Maul is more powerful, not that would make any sense, holistically speaking. Pablo doesn't specify which version of Anakin he is talking about, he says that Anakin as a younger man is better than Vader, but considering that he stated this during the production of RotS, which he saw for himself, he could easily be referring to RotS Anakin, and the general audience at the time was well aware that RotS was in the process of being filmed. The notion that he's referring to AotC Anakin is also incompatible with the quote that says Ventress (OCW Ventress specifically) and Mara Jade are inferior to Vader, whereas the notion that he's referring to RotS Anakin isn't incompatible with that quote. Moreover, Lucas doesn't even specify on which PT fighters are better than the OT fighters.

IG wrote:Yoda had a stick. Vader has a lightsaber. Hmmmm.

That quote abt Ventress + Mara is stating what they were trained to do, not what they actually were.

Ventress was trained to not be a threat, but in actuality she was.

There’s a quote abt Royal Guards being nigh-Vader level too.

The lord of hunger wrote:why are people even taken into consideration a star wars tales comic especifically resurrection.... if we go by that then vader stomping ESB yoda should be taken as a fact too.

Latham2000 wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:why are people even taken into consideration a star wars tales comic especifically resurrection.... if we go by that then vader stomping ESB yoda should be taken as a fact too.

Resurrection was tailor made for people who wanted to know how Vader and Maul compare and and who would emerge victorious in a duel to the death for the sake of settling Vader vs Maul debates, which you know... Happens on the kind of forums that we are on right now. Vader won because of superior durability and it's also arguable that Maul's arrogance gave Vader the opportunity to retrieve his lightsaber. The comic that features the stick wielding ESB Yoda vs ESB Vader was not published for the goal of settling Yoda vs Vader debates, so you're just committing a false equivalency, but if you can gather evidence for that then you can use it.

The lord of hunger wrote:seems good then but why is resurrection so damn used against vader on any debate when the character is focused on other versus debates?

Latham2000 wrote:

The lord of hunger wrote:seems good then but why is resurrection so damn used against vader on any debate when the character is focused on other versus debates?

Because Vader was outmatched by Maul in skill, speed and agility (he repeatedly lands hits in Vader whereas all what Vader does is cut Maul's saberstaff in two blades), but people also have some anti-OT agenda that they want to push. 

Now can everyone stop derailing my thread?