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- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 4:44 am
Whiny teenager loses
- SeturnaLevel One
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 4:48 am
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 5:14 am
Twice the pride double the fall
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 5:29 am
OP is being too vague. BoRotS Anakin was able to wreck Dooku once he unleashed all his pent up rage and hatred for him, Anakin wouldn't be resentful to Plagueis, a guy he doesn't know, so by that, this would be LS Anakin.
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 5:32 am
Latham2000 wrote:OP is being too vague. BoRotS Anakin was able to wreck Dooku once he unleashed all his pent up rage and hatred for him, Anakin wouldn't be resentful to Plagueis, a guy he doesn't know, so by that, this would be LS Anakin.
Well I think Seturna doesn't mean Zonakin, instead his base version and LS as you said.
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 5:46 am
LS Anakin istill has these "most powerful Jedi" accolades left right and centre, however power can mean multiple things and they're undefined in these accolades (some of them are subjective and speculative anyway), they're probably referring to Anakin's raw, untamed power as opposed to his actualised power given that LS Anakin has been stated to be a level 8 fighter, whereas RotS Yoda is a level 9 fighter, Anakin only becomes a level 9 fighter when he finally joins the Dark Side in Palpatine's office, and even then he's an unconventional level 9 fighter because he's only physically a 9, not mentally.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 7:33 am
Anakin stomps, the gap between Plagueis and the PT titans has to be pretty damn big.
- The God Emperor
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 9:18 am
Anakin wins easily. I don't put Plagueis on Dooku's level. Everyone knows what Anakin did against Dooku.
- SeturnaLevel One
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 10:31 am
The God Emperor wrote:Anakin wins easily. I don't put Plagueis on Dooku's level. Everyone knows what Anakin did against Dooku.
This isn’t zonakin my dear
- The lord of hungerLevel Two
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 11:46 am
Anakin casually wins
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 12:02 pm
Seturna wrote:The God Emperor wrote:Anakin wins easily. I don't put Plagueis on Dooku's level. Everyone knows what Anakin did against Dooku.
This isn’t zonakin my dear
Zonakin doesn't exist.
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 1:30 pm
Zonakin or not, Anakin wins.
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 3:08 pm
Zonakin is just a term for DS (Dark Side) Anakin letting go of his Jedi restraint and unleashing his repressed hatred for Dooku. The OP says that this is LS Anakin, and Anakin has a non existent relationship with Plagueis.
- TheNuisanceBird
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 6:12 pm
Zonakin doesn't exist. That's Anakin's base level of performance. It just has to be brought out. Dooku in the ROTS even makes note of this in how Anakin even when pushing the Count to his limits is still holding back.
Same with Knightfall Anakin how before he goes to the temple he "crushes the dragon" underneath his boot symbolizing himself finally unhinging himself.
Same with Knightfall Anakin how before he goes to the temple he "crushes the dragon" underneath his boot symbolizing himself finally unhinging himself.
- CuckedCurryLevel Four
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 6:42 pm
TheNuisanceBird wrote:Zonakin doesn't exist. That's Anakin's base level of performance. It just has to be brought out.
That is literally Anakin entering a different state of mind. Muh zonakin doesn’t exist is just semantics.
- O-Siri
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 7:07 pm
Anakin's survival into adulthood might give the properly paranoid muun a panic attack, but that's his only chance. In a straight up fight I don't see him beating a Sidious tier opponent.
- Geistalt
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 21st 2020, 10:11 pm
Assuming Plagueis is a Sidious-tier combatant.O-Siri wrote:Anakin's survival into adulthood might give the properly paranoid muun a panic attack, but that's his only chance. In a straight up fight I don't see him beating a Sidious tier opponent.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 22nd 2020, 3:05 am
CuckedCurry wrote:Anakin’s atomised.
- The God Emperor
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 22nd 2020, 5:33 am
Then, which Anakin?Seturna wrote:The God Emperor wrote:Anakin wins easily. I don't put Plagueis on Dooku's level. Everyone knows what Anakin did against Dooku.
This isn’t zonakin my dear
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 22nd 2020, 8:23 am
TheNuisanceBird wrote:Zonakin doesn't exist. That's Anakin's base level of performance. It just has to be brought out. Dooku in the ROTS even makes note of this in how Anakin even when pushing the Count to his limits is still holding back.
Same with Knightfall Anakin how before he goes to the temple he "crushes the dragon" underneath his boot symbolizing himself finally unhinging himself.
This isn't completely correct. Anakin was pushing Dooku to his limits while holding back his rage:
"Skywalker leapt from the balcony. Even as the boy hurtled downward, Dooku felt a new twist in the currents of the Force between them, and he finally understood.
He understood how Skywalker was getting stronger. Why he no longer spoke. How he had become a machine of battle. He understood why Sidious had been so interested in him for so long.
Skywalker was a natural.
There was a thermonuclear furnace where his heart should be, and it was burning through the firewalls of his Jedi training. He held the Force in the clench of a white-hot fist. He was half Sith already, and he didn't even know it.
This boy had the gift of fury.
And even now, he was holding himself back; even now, as he landed at Dooku's flank and rained blows upon the Sith Lord's defenses, even as he drove Dooku backward step after step, Dooku could feel how Skywalker kept his fury banked behind walls of will: walls that were hardened by some uncontrollable dread.
Dread, Dooku surmised, of himself. Of what might happen if he should ever allow that furnace he used for a heart to go supercritical.
Dooku slipped aside from an overhand chop and sprang backward. "I sense great fear in you. You are consumed by it. Hero With No Fear, indeed. You're a fraud, Skywalker. You are nothing but a posturing child."
He pointed his lightsaber at the young Jedi like an accusing finger. "Aren't you a little old to be afraid of the dark?"
Skywalker leapt for him again, and this time Dooku met the boy's charge easily. They stood nearly toe-to-toe, blades flashing faster than the eye could see, but Skywalker had lost his edge: a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight to controlling his own emotions. The angrier he got, the more afraid he became, and the fear fed his anger in turn; like the proverbial Corellian multipede, now that he had started thinking about what he was doing, he could no longer walk.
Dooku allowed himself to relax; he felt that spirit of playfulness coming over him again as he and Skywalker spun 'round each other in their lethal dance. Whatever fun was to be had, he should enjoy while he could.
Then Sidious, for some reason, decided to intervene.
"Don't fear what you're feeling, Anakin, use it!" he barked in Palpatine's voice. "Call upon your fury. Focus it, and he cannot stand against you. Rage is your weapon. Strike now! Strike! Kill him!"
Dooku thought blankly, Kill me?
He and Skywalker paused for one single, final instant, blades locked together, staring at each other past a sizzling cross of scarlet against blue, and in that instant Dooku found himself wondering in bewildered astonishment if Sidious had suddenly lost his mind. Didn't he understand the advice he'd just given? Whose side was he on, anyway?
And through the cross of their blades he saw in Skywalker's eyes the promise of hell, and he felt a sickening presentiment that he already knew the answer to that question. Treachery is the way of the Sith.
This is the death of Count Dooku:
A starburst of clarity blossoms within Anakin Skywalker's mind, when he says to himself Oh. I get it, now and discovers that the fear within his heart can be a weapon, too.
It is that simple, and that complex.
And it is final.
Dooku is dead already. The rest is mere detail.
The play is still on; the comedy of lightsabers flashes and snaps and hisses. Dooku & Skywalker, a one-time-only command performance, for an audience of one. Jedi and Sith and Sith and Jedi, spinning, whirling, crashing together, slashing and chopping, parrying, binding, slipping and whipping and ripping the air around them with snarls of power.
And all for nothing, because a nuclear flame has consumed Anakin Skywalker's Jedi restraint, and fear becomes fury without effort, and fury is a blade that makes his lightsaber into a toy.
The play goes on, but the suspense is over. It has become mere pantomime, as intricate and as meaningless as the space-time curves that guide galactic clusters through a measureless cosmos.
Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste-the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains hung upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax.
Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke.
It is this knowledge that shows him his death, makes him handle it, turn it this way and that in his mind, examine it in detail like a black gemstone so cold it burns. Dooku's elegant farce has degenerated into bathetic melodrama, and not one shed tear will mark the passing of its hero.
But for Anakin, in the fight there is only terror, and rage.
Only he stands between death and the two men he loves best in all the world, and he can no longer afford to hold anything back. That imaginary dead-star dragon tries its best to freeze away his strength, to whisper him that Dooku has beaten him before, that Dooku has all the power of the darkness, to remind him how Dooku took his hand, how Dooku could strike down even Obi-Wan himself seemingly without effort and now Anakin is all alone and he will never be a match for any Lord of the Sith-But Palpatine's words rage is your weapon have given Anakin permission to unseal the shielding around his furnace heart, and all his fears and all his doubts shrivel in its flame.
When Count Dooku flies at him, blade flashing, Watto's fist cracks out from Anakin's childhood to knock the Sith Lord tumbling back.
When with all the power that the dark side can draw from throughout the universe, Dooku hurls a jagged fragment of the durasteel table, Shmi Skywalker's gentle murmur I knew you would come for me, Anakin smashes it aside.
His head has been filled with the smoke from his smothered heart for far too long; it has been the thunder that darkens his mind. On Aargonar, on Jabiim, in the Tusken camp on Tatooine, that smoke had clouded his mind, had blinded him and left him flailing in the dark, a mindless machine of slaughter; but here now, within this ship, this microscopic cell of life in the infinite sterile desert of space, his firewalls have opened so that the terror and the rage are out there, in the fight instead of in his head, and Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell.
In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
Decide.
So he does.
He decides to win.
He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of scarlet blaze still extending from its spastic death grip, and Anakin's heart sings for the fall of that red blade.
He reaches out and the Force catches it for him.
And then Anakin takes Dooku's other hand as well.
Dooku crumples to his knees, face blank, mouth slack, and his weapon whirs through the air to the victor's hand, and Anakin finds his vision of the future happening before his eyes: two blades at Count Dooku's throat.
But here, now, the truth belies the dream. Both lightsabers are in his hands, and the one in his hand of flesh flares with the synthetic bloodshine of a Sith blade." -- Revenge of the Sith Novel.
Anakin was holding back rage and hatred for Dooku, who cut off his right arm, nearly killed Obi-Wan (his surrogate brother) and captured Palpatine (his father figure). All of Anakin's rage and hatred was bottled up inside, lying dormant. Once he let go of all those emotions, he stomped Dooku. The RotS junior novel has the same underlying theme:
"Rage poured through him. This was the man who had belittled him, who had kidnapped Palpatine and nearly killed Obi-Wan, who had cut off Anakin’s hand and tried to have Padme put to death. Anakin used his anger the way he normally used the Force, letting it guide his lightsaber. Faster and faster he moved, and then his lightsaber came down and severed Count Dooku’s hands." -- Revenge of the Sith Junior Novel.
It even adds more to Anakin's personal grievances for Dooku, saying that that the same Dooku belittled Anakin and tried to put his wife, Padme to death. Zonakin is just a forum term for the rage amped Anakin who stomped Dooku, but this isn't the Anakin that the OP is considering, the OP said that we're considering LS Anakin, who has a non-existent relationship with *PLAGUEIS.
LS Anakin however, did possess enough brute strength to:
--> "slid off Dooku's instinctive guard..."
--> "bent Dooku's wrist"
--> "The third flash of blue forced Dooku's scarlet blade so far to the inside that his own lightsaber scorched his shoulder, and Dooku was forced to give ground."
--> "Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength - not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing."
- TheNuisanceBird
Re: BoRots Anakin vs Darth Plagueis
March 22nd 2020, 8:39 pm
That's my point. Even when holding back his rage he was pushing Dooku to his limits. Even if we're going by Anakin as a Jedi his rage is still included. Anakin's base level of performance isn't necessarily dark side. For example, he can be holding back his physical augmentation but that doesn't mean the unused Force energy is dark side.
The second phase of that fight where Anakin and Obi-Wan stop holding back has Anakin almost causing Dooku to fall unconscious through physical augmentation. This is LS Anakin as he wasn't using the dark side at this point.
How does LS Anakin have a non-existent relationship with Dooku? Even going by Legends where they didn't meet every other week Dooku still cut off his arm and all of the other reasons you mentioned. Even if you took LS ROTS Anakin and put him up against someone who he didn't have emotional baggage with it wouldn't mean he couldn't do what he was doing in the second phase of the fight.
While the junior novel version makes it clear that Anakin did use the dark side to stomp Dooku the Stover version makes it more apparent that it's really more to do with his connection to the Force rather than using the dark side.
The second phase of that fight where Anakin and Obi-Wan stop holding back has Anakin almost causing Dooku to fall unconscious through physical augmentation. This is LS Anakin as he wasn't using the dark side at this point.
How does LS Anakin have a non-existent relationship with Dooku? Even going by Legends where they didn't meet every other week Dooku still cut off his arm and all of the other reasons you mentioned. Even if you took LS ROTS Anakin and put him up against someone who he didn't have emotional baggage with it wouldn't mean he couldn't do what he was doing in the second phase of the fight.
While the junior novel version makes it clear that Anakin did use the dark side to stomp Dooku the Stover version makes it more apparent that it's really more to do with his connection to the Force rather than using the dark side.
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