- Geistalt
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 2:27 am
You basically say all Sidious supremacy quotes are falsehoods.
Oh, and the link to the Wookieepedia article on the book, because when you look it up on Google the first thing that turns up is the new Canon's visual dictionary:
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Complete_Visual_Dictionary
Oh, and the link to the Wookieepedia article on the book, because when you look it up on Google the first thing that turns up is the new Canon's visual dictionary:
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Complete_Visual_Dictionary
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 2:54 am
Stop with these shit bait posts. Why are you proving the source is Canon as if you think that hurts my argument? It's not a Legends source. Not one of Sheev's quotes is a Legends OOU source encompassing all of history and covering Legends. And even if there was, Leland Chee specifically says he doesn't take all-time most powerful Sith quotes as binding because that's an absolute and limits the mythos.
Stop wasting my time with these atrocious arguments.
Stop wasting my time with these atrocious arguments.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 2:55 am
See below.
- Geistalt
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 3:12 am
You're either misinterpreting my explanation for why I shared the source, or deliberately trying to cause confusion.LadyKulvax wrote:Stop with these shit bait posts. Why are you proving the source is Canon as if you think that hurts my argument? It's not a Legends source. Not one of Sheev's quotes is a Legends OOU source encompassing all of history and covering Legends. And even if there was, Leland Chee specifically says he doesn't take all-time most powerful Sith quotes as binding because that's an absolute and limits the mythos.
Stop wasting my time with these atrocious arguments.
The source I shared was Legends. I wanted people to see it and know it exists and claims Sidious > Kun (and is more recent) without confusing it with the Canon book with a nearly-identical name.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 3:17 am
The book in 2006 was, first of all, a DK Readers book and second of all literally only covers the saga, it covers not a single piece of EU content. Go to that Wookiee link and scroll down to contents. More importantly, the fact it was republished in 2012 means it was republished under the Disney Canon label. Completely disconnecting it from any EU/Legends at all.
- Geistalt
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 3:20 am
2012 was before the division of continuities.
It was only divided into Canon and Legends in 2014.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_expanded_to_other_media
It was only divided into Canon and Legends in 2014.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_expanded_to_other_media
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 3:24 am
Derp, I meant 2016. My bad.
- Geistalt
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 3:33 am
It doesn't change the fact it was published between 2008 and 2014, as well.
And there are two other Sidious supremacy quotes in Legends from TCSWE on, but I'm done derailing the thread.
And there are two other Sidious supremacy quotes in Legends from TCSWE on, but I'm done derailing the thread.
- PraxisModerator | Champion of the Light
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 3:36 am
_________________
- Geistalt
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 3:39 am
Undecided. Retract my vote for now.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 3:53 am
Geistalt wrote:It doesn't change the fact it was published between 2008 and 2014, as well.
And there are two other Sidious supremacy quotes in Legends from TCSWE on, but I'm done derailing the thread.
2006, 2012 and 2016. That it was re-re-published under Disney Canon means it should be treated as such. Worse for you, even if you were right. All my other points stand. DK Readers is early reader's material and the entire book only covers the saga. It's not applicable to Legends in any way.
But if you're done with the argument, time to bump.
LadyKulvax wrote:EXAR KUN
This will be a massive overhaul of my previous argument.
First of all, the actual power levels of Exar Kun's domain are considerably vast:
Exhibit A: Tott Doneeta
Tott Doneeta manages to hold off a Ryloth heat storm with the Force:
These heat storms have speeds of 500 kilometers an hour and a temperature of 300 degrees celcius:
These things were immense:
They can reduce a person to dust before they can collapse:
Exhibit B: Nomi SunriderAleema Keto and her weaker cousin Satal, had such power as they began to dabble in Sith magicks, that they caused a dark side nexus due to this:Nomi Sunrider, Tales of the Jedi Audio Drama wrote:"This place is thick with the dark side."
The nexus caused by the Ketos drowns out the presence of Ulic Qel-Droma:Tales of the Jedi wrote:Reaching out to Ulic with the Force, she feels nothing... except the dark power that now inhabits the great iron citadel of the Krath.
Despite this power, Nomi destroys Aleema in telepathy, whether she's attacking or defending:
Despite all of this power, Tott and Nomi, with the aid of Oss Willum, Cay Qel-Droma and Qrrrl, are incapable of subduing Ulic Qel-Droma who focuses his power through an amulet, attacking omnidirectionally with Force lightning and telekinesis:
Ulic famously stalemated Exar Kun, and Kun by this point had already displayed galactic scale feats:The Essential Guide to Characters wrote:Nadd offered Kun a way to live, and to repair his broken body: if he embraced the dark side, he would be healed. The betrayal of light was not an easy one for Kun, but the desire to live was stronger. He accepted the dark side, his screams reaching out across the galaxy and creating ripples in the Force.The New Essential Chronology wrote:Exar Kun let out a tremendous shriek that echoed across the galaxy, calling in despair upon Master Vodo, whom he had abandoned.
Kun has already replaced Nadd as a 'great power' in the galaxy:Vodo Siosk-Baas, Tales of the Jedi wrote:"I sense a disturbance in the Force. As if one great power has fallen and another has risen in its place."
And is further stated to be the only one since Ragnos to be worthy of his power and the Dark Lord title:Star Wars Databank wrote:An ancient Sith spirit declared the two warriors as worthy of the Sith heritage.
This means all of the following feats are already far beneath Exar Kun:Tales of the Jedi Companion wrote:King Ommin rose to power in the same manner as his ancestors of the last three centuries: by dominating the populace of Onderon with the dark side.Arca Jeth, Tales of the Jedi Audio Drama wrote:"Dark Side energy, the strongest I've ever felt."Star Wars Databank wrote:The Jedi continued to learn more of Iziz's dark secrets. They learned it was under the pall of the dark side. Four hundred years earlier, a Sith student named Freedon Nadd brought the power of the dark side to Onderon, and his descendents included King Ommin and Queen Amanoa, whose forms were riddled with the dark side.
Ulic disappears for years after joining Exar Kun, where he gains tremendous power in the dark side:The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Ulic was then confronted by another fallen Jedi, Exar Kun. As they engaged in a lightsaber battle, the Sith Amulets both Jedi wore began to glow, and they were visited by spirits of the Ancient Sith Lords who told them that Kun was the new Dark Lord of the Sith and Qel-Droma his first assistant. Years later, Ulic reappeared with tremendous dark side powers and set out to plunder and destroy large parts of the galaxy with a large and bloodthirsty army serving alongside Exar Kun.
Ulic then attacks Coruscant, but when faced with Vodo Siosk-Baas, his weapon is telekinetically torn from his grasp and his connection to the Force blocked:
NOTE: I consider this a majority Vodo Siosk-Baas feat because the Jedi with him couldn't subdue Ulic alone, and almost died trying, and that was years before Ulic had grown far more powerful. Furthermore, it's said that Ulic would become equal to not more powerful than, the mightiest Jedi masters of the time; which Vodo is one of, indicating Ulic became equal to Vodo after Coruscant:The Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:Nadd foretold that Ulic would one day be a great Sith Lord, equal to the mightiest Jedi masters.
With Ulic captured and in chains, Exar Kun arrives at his trial in the Senate where Kun hypnotises the entire Senate and maintains that whilst defeating Vodo, who is stated to stand 'no chance' against Kun's 'deep reserve of dark side power':Power of the Jedi Sourcebook wrote:Ulic’s trial was interrupted by Exar Kun, who met his former Master face to face for the first time since his long descent into darkness. The two fought, and Vodo-Siosk Baas was no match for Exar Kun’s double-bladed lightsaber and deep reserve of dark side power. Vodo-Siosk perished, slain by his former apprentice.
After this, Exar Kun initially met his match against Ood Bnar, who taps the power of a Force nexus so strong it's implied that it prevents the utter and total destruction of the planet:Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith wrote:Ood resists Kun's attempts to steal the lightsabers by undergoing a final metamorphosis, plunging roots into the ground and driving Kun back with a blast of power drawn from the depths of Ossus.Unlikely Survival of Ossus Codex Entry wrote:Ossus still bears the scars of the Cron Supernova: its surface is a seared wasteland of rock and sand. But even this degree of desolation is shockingly mild; that the planet was not rendered into a charred ball of molten rock, or even obliterated completely, is nothing short of miraculous.
Little academic work has been put forward to explain this unlikely survival; only conjecture. The initial cause of the supernova was unnatural; perhaps this explains the unnatural results? Ossus was a stronghold of the Jedi; does the inherent life force of such a place make it more resistant to destruction?
Kun leaves Ossus with a wealth of artifacts and knowledge, stated to be more than he could ever need, and thus becomes far more powerful than any Jedi of the time, which includes Ood:Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith wrote:Looking at all the precious artifacts his Massassi have stolen, Exar Kun knows he has more wealth and knowledge than he could ever use.The Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:She discovers the accounts of the Great Sith War, and learns that though Kun was far more powerful than any one other Jedi of the time, a combined force had defeated him.
Ood Bnar, of course, was capable of summoning the same power, taking out Luke Skywalker and disintegrating Sedriss XL; a serious contender for Luke, at once:The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Several thousand years later on the planet Ossus, Bnar reawakened to help save Jem Ysanna, a young woman with powers in the Force. He ultimately sacrificed himself to destroy the evil Imperial Military Executor Sedriss.
...
The Executor was destroyed by the power of an ancient Jedi, Ood Bnar.
Noting that at this point, Executor Sedriss is even closer to Darth Vader's power than Jerec was, who already rivalled Vader's power:Handbook 3 wrote:Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebel's Pinnacle Base.Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II Game Manual wrote:His [Jerec's] embrace of the Force's dark side gives him powers that rival Vader's.
Exar Kun himself at this point is the most powerful Sith in history:The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Kun, Exar. Once the most powerful and dangerous of the Dark Lords of the Sith, he was responsible for the deaths of millions four millennia before the rise of the Empire.
Given Kun's power at this point naturally dwarfs that of any of the preceding Sith, he also scales majorly over the Sith Council who had already bestowed their power on Kun many years ago:
This means that he scales above the same spirits who'd attacked, bullied and gravely injured ANH Darth Sidious, per Sheev's own admission:
Prime Kun is also obviously more powerful than Marka Ragnos, who was more powerful than Darth Nihilus per Kreia who not only taught Nihilus the technique and how to consume worlds with it but had studied the Telos IV holocron stash and other vast sources such as the Trayus Academy knowledge which per Chris Avellone provides her with accurate estimations of the power of the ancient Sith:Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:"The blind seer, her master harnessed this technique and he is rapidly approaching the height of its power. I fear he may even rival some of the ancient Sith."
Kreia herself admits Nihilus is an entire magnitude beyond her in power:Kreia, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords wrote:“One cannot have power of that magnitude and still think and perceive the universe as we do."
Kreia herself was capable of literally one-shotting the entire Jedi Council:SWTOR Codex Entry wrote:Part of Kreia’s plan involved decimating the Jedi Order. On Dantooine, Kreia severed Masters Vrook Lmar, Kavar, and Zez-Kai Ell from the Force, killing them within the Jedi Enclave.
Each of those masters were around the power of an amped Bastila Shan:Bastila Shan, Knights of the Old Republic wrote:"The Dark Side has made me stronger than I ever was before! I have a greater command of the Force than all but the most powerful Jedi masters."
Bastila Shan was capable of holding her own willpower against all of the corruptive apparatus; including torture by Force lightning, of Darth Malak for an entire week before succumbing:
Furthermore, Kun's effects on the galaxy and cosmos at this point represented a 'torrent' of the dark side which only ended with him being sealed within the Temple of Yavin IV:Exar Kun, Star Wars Databank wrote:Before Vader, before Maul, before Sidious... there was a Dark Lord of the Sith that cast a shadow of terror and destruction across the galaxy. The ancient forces of the Republic and the Jedi banded together to stop the torrent of the dark side, and bring an end to Exar Kun's rule.
He used the life essence of every Massassi to bind himself to the temple:Exar Kun, Dark Apprentice wrote:"When the Jedi combined their might and came here to this moon to fight me, they unleashed such power that I had to drain every last one of the Massassi just to trap my spirit within these temples-to survive so that I could one day come back."
His power is 'extinguished' as he escapes death:
His return from slumber and the later return of his predecessor in Marka Ragnos, caused the Force itself to 'seethe':Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties, starwars.com wrote:Seven years after the Battle of Endor, when Luke Skywalker established an academy with the intention of rebuilding the Jedi Order, the spirit of the ancient Sith Lord Exar Kun returned to prevent the Jedi Brotherhood's resurrection. Three short years later, another Sith daemon, this time the Dark Lord Marka Ragnos, also was called back from the realm of Chaos to terrorize the galaxy. This latter event was not isolated. Some of the disciples of Ragnos had formerly been aligned with the dark sider Hethrir and his Empire Reborn, which had been defeated only a short time prior. Worse, soon after the encounter with Ragnos, the lifeless body of the reformed Sith acolyte Flint was found on Belderone: an ancient Jedi lightsaber in hand, a cauterized hole through his throat.
The Force seethed with the suggestion of a grand, sinister scheme.
Exar Kun's spirit, factually far weaker than he was in his living prime, was capable by itself of defeating Master Luke:Champions of the Force wrote:Afraid to challenge the dark power that had been sufficient to warp other students and defeat Master Skywalker.
Who by this point is in his prime:Champions of the Force wrote:Luke clapped him on the back and smiled with dark-ringed eyes that shone with an inner brightness stronger than ever before. As he conquered each seemingly insurmountable obstacle, Luke's Jedi powers grew greater and greater- but, like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda, a Jedi Master learned to use his powers even less, relying on wits instead of showmanship.I, Jedi wrote:When we had met before I had felt power in him, but now, after his experiences with the Emperor Reborn, his power had been redoubled. Physically he looked a bit haggard and worn, with the flesh around his eyes having tightened and wrinkles appearing at their corners. I knew we were the same age chronologically, but in experience he far surpassed me.
By now, Exar Kun's spiritual power is quite clearly beyond Kyp Durron in power, both via statements and is demonstratably true:The New Essential Guide to Characters wrote:He opened himself to the spirit of the Sith Lord Exar Kun, convincing himself that Kun's power could be harnessed for noble pursuits. Instead, the dark side energies trampled over Durron's naïvité.I, Jedi wrote:"And who will stop me?" I hesitated because Kyp's words seemed to echo within themselves, we were not alone, which meant Kyp's mentor had come to aid his apprentice.
"I will, if you make it necessary." An ancient sneer of contempt twisted Kyp's features.
"Puny Jedi, you are of no concern to me." Even though I had braced myself for another attack, it did no good. Kyp's previous blows were like light breezes compared to this full-on gale. I slammed back into the wall with teeth rattling-impact.Dark Apprentice wrote:He reached out with his mind, following the paths of the Force that led to every object in the universe, drawing power from the cosmic focal point of the Massassi temple. He searched, sending his thoughts like a probe deep into the storm systems of the gas giant. Behind him, Kyp felt the black-ice power of Exar Kun arise, tapping into him and reinforcing his abilities. His own feeble exploratory touch suddenly plunged forward like a blaster bolt. Kyp felt larger, a part of the jungle moon, then a part of the entire planetary system, until he burrowed into the heart of the gas giant itself.Dark Apprentice wrote:His best students were going sour, getting impatient, trying to push the limits of their abilities. But he had sensed a greater, deeper menace that vibrated within the very stones of the Great Temple itself. . . evil, and well hidden.
Exar Kun even augments and empowers Kyp Durron so as to reach his full potential:Dark Apprentice wrote:Kyp felt his skin tingling with barely contained power,
****
Against the full might of Kyp DurronJedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Over a number of weeks, Kun slowly bends Kyp to his will, and begins to augment his power. He grows very powerful on Kyp's hate, and soon his hold on Kyp is so complete that he can send Kyp beyond the planet to do his will and still retain control over his subject. Ultimately, he has Kyp return to Yavin Four and helps him reclaim the Sun Crusher. He also bolsters Kyp's talents to allow him to defeat Luke and place him in a coma.
Exar Kun's knowledge died with him:Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:The dark knowledge of the Sith teachings died with Kun, it is extremely unlikely that any records survive, either on Yavin IV or elsewhere.
His techniques were indefensible when unleashed on Luke Skywalker:Dark Apprentice wrote:Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched. His every muscle suddenly coiled and tensed. He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic.
Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him—but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly. Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail.
Luke's knowledge at this point is great:Dark Empire Endnotes wrote:Luke is, perhaps, learning more about the Dark Side than he wants to know. The more the Emperor reveals, the more Luke is repulsed. The sheer depravity of the man would shake the soul of the strongest Jedi.
But Luke must continually remind himself of his vow to conquer the Dark Side from within.
Luke's father understood these secrets, these powers, and willingly used them to crush and enslave multitudes of Galactic citizens.
--
Satisfied that his "young apprentice" has crossed the threshold from which there is no returning, the Emperor unveils his teaching, and Luke is given the knowledge that was bestowed on his father before him!
Vader's knowledge was immense, encompassing the collective Banite knowledge, the Jedi Temple Vault and more:Book of Sith: Secrets from the Dark Side wrote:Darth Bane's Rule of Two was a keystone of the Sith Order for centuries. The Battle of Ruusan, nearly a millennium ago, would have ended the Sith Order had Darth Bane not reconstituted it as a diarchy operating from the shadows. His writings became part of the Sith Archives passed down from master to apprentice for generations.Episode 1: Scrapbook wrote:For a millennium, the Sith maintained the order in secrecy, passing down their evil heritage. As they gained knowledge of the dark side of the Force, their powers increased with each generation.Revenge of the Sith wrote:The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader wrote:Black armorweave and feats of strength weren't the only things that distinguished Darth Vader from Anakin Skywalker. Where Anakin had had limited access to the Jedi Temple data room, Vader–even light-years from Coruscant–could peruse any data he wished, including archival records, ancient texts, and holocrons fashioned by past Masters.The Clone Wars Season 2: Holocron Heist wrote:"Beyond this door lies the Holocron Vault. The Holocrons contain the most closely guarded secrets of the Jedi Order."Darth Plagueis wrote:The tour began in the outermost rooms, which were appointed with furnishings and objects of art of the highest quality, gathered from all sectors of the galaxy. But Plagueis was neither as acquisitive as a Neimoidian nor as ostentatious as a Hutt; and so the ornamented chambers quickly gave way to data-gathering rooms crowded with audio-vid receivers and HoloNet projectors; and then to galleries filled to overflowing with ancient documents and tomes, recorded on media ranging from tree trunk parchment through flimsiplast to storage crystal and holocron. The Muuns were said to abhor literature and to loathe keeping records of anything other than loan notices, actuarial tables, and legal writs, and yet Plagueis was guardian of the one of the finest libraries to be found anywhere outside Obroa-skai or the Jedi Temple on Coruscant.
--
Exiting the turbolift, the first thing to catch Sidious’s eye was the library: rack after rack of texts, scrolls, disks, and holocrons—all the data he had been craving since his apprenticeship began. He ran his hands lovingly over the shelves but barely had time to revel in his excitement when 11-4D ushered him onto a descending ramp that led into what might have been a state-of-the-art medical research facility.
Noting that Darth Bane's knowledge encompassed the holocrons of Darth Revan and Freedon Nadd:Path of Destruction wrote:To Bane it seemed the teachings contained within the single Holocron surpassed those of the Academy's entire archives. Revan had discovered many of the rituals of the ancient Sith, and as the Holocron's avatar explained their nature and purpose, Bane could barely wrap his mind around their awesome potential. Some of the rituals were so terrible-so dangerous to attempt, even for a true Sith Master-that he doubted he would ever dare to use them. Yet he dutifully copied them down on sheaves of flimsi, preserving them so he could study them in greater depth later. And there was far more than just the ancient practices of dark side sorcerers stored inside the Holocron. In only a few short weeks he'd learned more about the true nature of the dark side than he had in all his time on Korriban. Revan had been a true Sith Lord, unlike the simpering Masters who bowed to Kaan and his Brotherhood. And soon all his knowledge-his understanding of the dark side-would belong to Bane.Rule of Two wrote:For the next four days and nights he lost himself in the secrets of the ancient artifact. As he suspected, it had been created by Freedon Nadd. Bane delved into the Holocron's secrets with the aid of the gatekeeper: a miniature hologrammic projection of the long-dead Sith Master responsible for its creation. The gatekeeper guided and directed his studies, serving as a virtual mentor to those who sought out Nadd's lost secrets inside the sinister pyramid. Though Nadd had been human, his avatar was the image of a man who had succumbed to the physical corruption that sometimes affected those who delved too deeply into the power of the dark side. His skin was pallid, the flesh withered and sunken, and his eyes were glowing yellow orbs devoid of iris or pupil. Despite this, he still appeared as a formidable warrior: broad-shouldered, clad in heavy battle armor and the helm that had doubled as his crown when he had proclaimed himself king over the nearby world of Onderon.
…
But the orbalisk research was only the beginning. Freedon Nadd had been a Jedi who turned to the dark side as the apprentice of Naga Sadow, the former ruler of the ancient Sith Empire. Sadow's power had been so great, it had allowed him to survive for six centuries, fueled by the energies of the dark side. As his apprentice, Nadd had absorbed all his knowledge and teachings, transferring them into the Holocron before murdering Sadow and taking his place. Not surprisingly, most of the information inside the Holocron was hidden, locked away in the depths of its crystalline structure where it could be accessed only through time, meditation, and careful study. It would take many months, maybe even years, before Bane could lay claim to its greatest secrets.
Luke Skywalker as of Jedi Academy has absolutely immense cross-era knowledge. Yet, as shown above, nothing he did against the techniques of Exar Kun were useful in any manner. This can be explained by the fact that Exar Kun had ransacked the most precious artifacts and knowledge from the Chamber of Antiquities in the Great Library of Ossus which was comparable in vastness to the Jedi Temple, and the knowledge of which was decimated:Fact Files #46 wrote:For a thousand generations, the Jedi worked hard to ensure that peace flourished throughout the galaxy. During that time, a number of repositories of Jedi knowledge developed, whose scope and sheer magnitude have become legendary. Of these, the library on the planet Ossus is perhaps the most infamous. Tragically, it was obliterated when the stars of the nearby Cron cluster were exploded by the weapon of the ancient Sith High Priest, Naga Sadow. What vast knowledge and wisdom was lost in the ensuing conflagration is now a matter for myths and stories to imagine. In more recent times, the Archives at the Jedi Temple on Coruscant were similarly vast.Tales of the Jedi wrote:Looking at all the precious artifacts his Massassi have stolen, Exar Kun knows he has more wealth and knowledge than he could ever use.
Furthermore, he was the final recipient of the knowledge of the Dark Holocron which is the mythos' most powerful:The Essential Guide to Weapons & Technology wrote:The most powerful Sith Holocron contained Sith teachings and histories that covered some hundred thousand years.Jedi VS. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force wrote:Exar Kun might not have risen to power so quickly had Odan-Urr destroyed the Sith Holocron when he’d had the chance.
Essentially, Exar Kun has Force techniques that almost no one in the mythos has a counter for and knowledge gleaned from sources destroyed by him and which died with him until Kyp Durron was shown them:Exar Kun, Dark Apprentice wrote:"I could show you techniques that were lost thousands of years ago, secret rites and hidden doorways of power."
Speaking of which, Exar Kun teaches Kyp Durron everything:Champions of the Force wrote:Inside that temple Kyp had received his initiation into the Sith teachings, while Dorsk 81 had lain in an unnatural coma against the wall. The spirit of Exar Kun had meant to destroy the cloned Jedi student on a whim, as a gesture of power, but Kyp had stopped him, insisting instead that the Sith Lord teach him everything. He had seen things that still left yammering nightmares in the depths of his mind.
Teachings that Kyp states were far greater than what he was taught under Luke:Dark Apprentice wrote:"You haven't taught me very much, Master Skywalker. I've learned a great deal beyond your feeble teachings."
And he far surpasses all other students there:I, Jedi wrote:Kyp’s presence seemed to put a spark back into Master Skywalker-the spark that had been diminished since Gantoris’ death. Kyp proved almost immediately to be the greatest of the apprentices gathered there. With only a minimum of training, he blasted on past all of us in terms of what he could do.
****
Of course, my best was nothing compared to Kyp Durron’s best. Kyp’s growth in the Force was nothing shy of incredible. In just over a week he surpassed anything the rest of us were doing by light-years.Dark Apprentice wrote:In little more than a week of intensive work, Kyp had surpassed the achievements of the other Jedi students.Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Kyp travels to Yavin Four to join Luke’s Jedi academy. There, he immerses himself in work, and within days has surpassed the achievements of the other Jedi students. He doesn’t socialize with the others, preferring to concentrate on honing his Jedi skills.
This includes Kam Solusar, who stomps Vill Goir:New Essential Guide to Characters wrote:On Ossus he cut Vill Goir in half.
Vill Goir is among the Dark Side Elite and is chosen from among them to accompany Executor Sedriss in taking in Luke Skywalker:
The Dark Side Elite are more dangerous and powerful than all but the Emperor:Dark Empire Handbook 3 wrote:While some were merely yes-men, cronies barely fit to be footstools in the Imperial Court, others possessed tremendous strength in the Force. Coupled with maniacal lust for power, or merely psychotic, these dark side adepts were some of the most dangerous Force users in the galaxy short of the Emperor himself.
Putting them far beyond the Imperial Sentinels:
Who were twice the power and size of Royal Guards who were almost a match for Darth Vader in combative prowess:
In other words, skipping over lightsaber-resistant armor, the ability to cripple an opponent's saber and that niché stuff, Exar Kun's abilities in combat are absolutely up with the very top tier of the mythos, scaling up beyond Darth Vader. He has knowledge of Force techniques that are indefensible against and he is an absolute Force powerhouse that deserves a top 10 spot here.7
- Gianfi
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 6:45 am
Also, are we considering Legends only or composite (Canon + Legends) ?
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 7:23 am
As you know, I am a lazy fuck but I decided to make a case for a worthy character who deserves to be among the top dogs IMO. So far the tournament has been between mostly the Jedi and Sith combatants, allow me to bring a unique practitioner of the Force to the table now. My candidate is Gethzerion.
And oh, here are some music for you to enjoy:
Telekinesis:
Enhance Weaponary:
Telepathy/Mesmerism:
Augmentation:
Voodoo Magic/Cursing:
Summoning Creatures/Spirits:
Conjure Illusions:
Shapeshifting:
-The Wild Life of Star Wars: A Field Guide (credits to Azronger)
Localization:
Conjuration:
These were just basic examples of the potential of Nightsister Magic. Let's proceed to part where Nightsisters can apply these in combat and them being able to match the other Force Wielders.
Nightsisters are a forced to be reckoned with in combat. Unfortunately the lethality of their combat skills and powers are being massively underestimated, that they are no match for the Jedi. Not only this is wrong, they matched the Jedi and Sith over the centuries and were even capable of driven them off.
First of here is the training process:
It is the survival of the fittest. You are either become the hunter, or the hunted.
Nightsisters are able to Force Choke their opponents with a brief chant:
Even the lesser Nightsisters are capable of electrocuting their opponents with spells:
Two Nightsisters attempt to alter Luke's perception via illusion, they are partially successful against an opponent with such strength:
Nightsisters have quick reflexes and even can cast a spell to deflect a blaster bolt in the meantime:
A younger and insignificant Nightsister could knock Luke's lightsaber off his hand:
Nightsisters were capable of casting a spell that caused a maelstrom and forced Luke and other clan members to retreat:
Apparently, the lowest rank of Nightsisters can give Luke trouble as of 8 ABY. Here is the interesting thing, Nightsisters were even able to stand up to other Jedi including Yoda, centuries ago:
and funnily enough, Nightsisters managed to defeat Yoda and drove the other Jedi along with him off Dathomir.
It is even more impressive since Yoda is approximately 500 years around this time, meaning he has been a master and training Jedi for about 4 centuries. Considering the fact that Yoda began experiencing the effects of old age when he is over 700 years, Nightsisters being able to defeat a healthy Yoda backed up by other Jedi shows how dangerous they are.
Before proceeding to Gethzerion, we have one more important figure to talk about albeit briefly; Mother Talzin. Talzin is among the most powerful figures during the Clone Wars and is the leader of Nightsisters we saw. Let's have a look at her powers and strength.
Power:
Talzin is powerful enough the match Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord in the history.
Talzin is so powerful that droid armies would not be able to destroy her and Sidious himself has to join them:
Force Barrier:
Talzin is able to conjure a barrier to hold both Sidious and Dooku's Force Lightning briefly:
Force Lightning:
Talzin is able to deploy Force Lightning and she can temporarily contend with Sidious:
I would love to write more about Talzin but she is only a mere tool for now. Let's proceed to the final part.
Gethzerion was so powerful that Palpatine was dazed by her strength. Due to her power and the threat she possessed, Palpatine had to strand her on Dathomir, abandoning hundreds of his people in the process:
-The Essential Guide to the Planets and Moons
-The Dark Side Sourcebook
Gethzerion is the most powerful Nightsister:
Gethzerion is the creator of spells that Nightsisters use:
B ) Feats:
As the original Nightsister, Gethzerion is extremely powerful and has access to many powers and spells:
Gethzerion effortlessly oneshots Luke Skywalker, ripping blood vessels in his brain:
This happens as of 8 ABY, meaning Luke had 4 years of growth since Return of the Jedi.
Gethzerion effortlessly kills General Melvar, the right-hand man of Zsinj along with a hundred Stormtroopers within three seconds:
Gethzerion being able to instantly kill +100 men and oneshot post-RotJ Luke Skywalker is an insane feat, considering the latter had four years of growth ever since he was equally as strong as Darth Vader.
C ) Gethzerion's Growth and Scaling:
As the founder of Nightsisters, Gethzerion had been around for centuries, rise and fall of other Clan Mothers thus scaling above all of them, including Talzin. Massively pre-prime Gethzerion is capable of silent chanting which is something even Talzin is incapable of. Gethzerion is the creator of the spells Nightsisters and Talzin use and unlike the latter, she doesn't need rituals or preparations to cast them. There are several quotes confirming this, which I already added above. Additionally, the Nightsisters are noted to grow even more powerful after the Clone Wars and the Rise of the Empire:
And oh, here are some music for you to enjoy:
NIGHTSISTER SUPREMACY
-The Darkside Sourcebook
Nightsisters of Dathomir are powerful individuals who can employ rituals and spells that allow them to gather the energy of the Force. Then they can use its strength to create the desired effect. Even the lesser Nightsisters are capable of performing such feats as altering the enviroment, cause storms, enhance the physical abilities and dominate the minds of lesser beings with their magic.
Here are some examples of the variations and capabilities of their magic:
Here are some examples of the variations and capabilities of their magic:
The Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:"Where light side Force witches learned to work with their environment, the Nightsisters bent the environment to their will, and were able to call forth rain, wind, and lightning, to climb spiderlike on vertical surfaces, and to control the weak-minded like virtual puppets."
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“The brown smoke hung ominously above like a pall to cover the world, yet it was utterly motionless. Somehow, the Nightsisters were manipulating the smoke, using the Force to wield it like a hammer. The air felt charged with static electricity.”
Telekinesis:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“Blaster fire ripped into the parapet beneath Luke, and a lone Imperial walker rose into view, blasters blazing. The Nightsisters were using the Force to levitate it.”
Enhance Weaponary:
Book of Sith wrote:"Our warriors wear the cuffs and shoulder armor of those who withstood the Crucible. Their weapons, such as pikes are infused with powerful magick and can cut through any substance."
Telepathy/Mesmerism:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:The Nightsister nodded thoughtfully. Luke could feel her trying to probe them, and he almost pulled his blaster. Instead, he channeled the Force, let it flow into the witch, quiet her suspicions.
Book of Sith wrote:“Mesmerism is another gift provided by spirit ichor. This power allows a shaman to override the thoughts of those weaker than oneself—particularly men and offworlders. A tap of the fingertip to the victim’s forehead will induce a trancelike state and make the victim powerless to refuse your commands.”
Wrath of Darth Maul wrote:"Before he could respond, she made a gesture with her hands and then extended one long finger to touch his forehead. Maul plunged into unconsciousness"
"He awoke groggily, feeling drained, as if he had been robbed of the Force"
Augmentation:
Insider 125 (50 Great Reasons to Rewatch Star Wars: The Clone Wars Season Three) wrote:“Using her magic, Mother Talzin reshapes Savage Opress into a bulked-up, long-horned agent of destruction.”
Wrath of Darth Maul wrote:“According to Oppress, Talzin had transformed him into a monstrous warrior, endowed him with dark side powers, and given him the amulet and sent him in search of Maul.”
Voodoo Magic/Cursing:
Book of Sith wrote:“Another form of control is achieved by crafting a small statue of a victim, combining a strand of hair and a roiling cauldron brimming with the waters of life. This crude figure may then be stabbed with wooden needles or weakened with a breath of miasma. Any harm done to the totem will be felt by the victim it resembles.”
Summoning Creatures/Spirits:
Book of Sith wrote:“I do not wish to disturb the Winged Goddess with endless supplications, but in times of severe distress, I have used the shaman’s connection to directly invoke the spirits. When the call succeeds, the specters of long-ago warriors will glow into view. Heralded by a rush of wind, they will charge a target while uttering a shriek that emanates from every direction at once.”
Conjure Illusions:
Star Wars: Head-to-Head wrote:"She can conjure up images to cloud and terrify the minds of even the bravest of opponents."
Darth Maul: Restraint wrote:“With a motion of her hands, the docking bay was suddenly filled with dozens of Nightsister warriors, though sporting robes and weapons that struck Maul as of ancient design. He understood that he was being treated to a dazzling Force illusion, but the Vollick’s soldiers were fully taken in.”
Shapeshifting:
-The Wild Life of Star Wars: A Field Guide (credits to Azronger)
Localization:
Book of Sith wrote:“Talismans of Finding are shaped to resemble a compass and will guide the user to any target that has been imprinted upon it.”
Conjuration:
Book of Sith wrote:“A skilled shaman may conjure objects from raw spirit ichor. The conjured object is everlasting and can take many forms such as a hunting lance or a goblet of boiled blackroot.”
These were just basic examples of the potential of Nightsister Magic. Let's proceed to part where Nightsisters can apply these in combat and them being able to match the other Force Wielders.
COMBAT SKILLS AND FEATS
Nightsisters are a forced to be reckoned with in combat. Unfortunately the lethality of their combat skills and powers are being massively underestimated, that they are no match for the Jedi. Not only this is wrong, they matched the Jedi and Sith over the centuries and were even capable of driven them off.
First of here is the training process:
Book of Sith wrote:The means to produce the finest warriors and assassins in the galaxy are at our fingertips, and they have commanded a high price on the galactic market. All Nightsisters and Nightbrothers have trained since they were young to use our weapons: the pike, the mace, the spear, the axe and the chain-sickle. Those worthy to become warriors or assassins must be tested to prove their skill. In the arena of the Crucible, the candidates will face three tests- the tests of Fury, Night and Elevation. Any who fail will be eliminated.
It is the survival of the fittest. You are either become the hunter, or the hunted.
Nightsisters are able to Force Choke their opponents with a brief chant:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“Baritha stood at the foot of her pile of rubble, with three other Nightsisters at her side. One of the women chanted softly, and she held her thumb and forefinger out, pinching them together. Invisible fingers seized Teneniel's throat, choking her.”
Even the lesser Nightsisters are capable of electrocuting their opponents with spells:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“Teneniel could still feel her, twenty meters to their right, and just when Teneniel was sure she was past, a bolt of blue lightning pierced through the haze, struck Teneniel in the breast, jarring her mind, lifting her in the air. The Nightsister stood before them, flames flying from her fingertips, and Teneniel recognized the hag: Ocheron, a woman who had been powerful in her clan, a woman gifted at deception. Too late, Teneniel realized that Ocheron had caused them to run into her trap. Ocheron laughed and the blue lightning arced from her fingertips, sucked Teneniel's breath away. She shrieked for help. The flames dug into her like fiery claws. The world reeled, and the blue lightning played over her. It touched a breast, and the breast went so cold it felt as if it had been severed. Tongues of lightning played up her left arm, and the arm seemed to die and wither instantly, like a cut ola vine. A bolt of lightning sizzled into her ear, and all sound left her, another arc touched her eye and half the world went black. The lightning sucked the very life from each limb it touched slicing parts of her away like a giant blade. She could not fight it, could not run away. She felt so helpless, she could not even scream as she collapsed.”
Two Nightsisters attempt to alter Luke's perception via illusion, they are partially successful against an opponent with such strength:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“One of the Nightsisters grabbed Baritha's arm, a warning gesture. Behind Baritha, two of the Nightsisters began to sing softly in harmony, and their images faded. Luke let the Force flow through him, realized they were trying to alter his perceptions.”
Nightsisters have quick reflexes and even can cast a spell to deflect a blaster bolt in the meantime:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“Luke pulled his blaster and fired. Baritha cut short her spell. She reached out with a gesture and slapped the blaster bolt away.”
A younger and insignificant Nightsister could knock Luke's lightsaber off his hand:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:
She was huddled near the ground, frightened, retreating from Tosh and the carnage. Luke drew his lightsaber.
"You!" he shouted, and the Nightsister turned to him, her hood falling back. She was young, nothing more than a child really, perhaps sixteen. Luke could not imagine her being truly evil. He could feel her terror.
She began singing, and Luke raised his free hand with a gesture, used the Force to close her windpipe. The singing stopped, and she stood frozen, horror etched on her face.
"Don't make me kill you!" Luke said. "Promise me you'll leave Gethzerion and her clan forever!"
The girl stared at him, lit by the fires of burning Imperial walkers, eyes wild with terror, strangling. She nodded dumbly, and Luke could taste her animal fear. He let her go.
She dropped to the ground, looked up at him with rage. Luke could feel her surprise at her own impotence. With a single swatting gesture she cast a spell, knocking the lightsaber from Luke's hand.
Nightsisters were capable of casting a spell that caused a maelstrom and forced Luke and other clan members to retreat:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“The clan sisters around Luke began chanting, and far below, down in the shadows of the wood, the Nightsisters sang loudly. The air swirled around the balcony, and Luke felt dust sifting in his hair, suddenly realized that something was dropping on him from above. He looked up, and the clouds of soot were raining down around him. He reached into his utility belt, grabbed some goggles, and then felt a tremor rip through the Force. The winds surged, and Luke found himself in a maelstrom of blowing soot and gravel. He put on his goggles, and the clan sisters hid their eyes as they backed away from the balcony toward the shelter of their stronghold.”
Apparently, the lowest rank of Nightsisters can give Luke trouble as of 8 ABY. Here is the interesting thing, Nightsisters were even able to stand up to other Jedi including Yoda, centuries ago:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“Yoda had been a greater Jedi Master than Luke ever hoped to be, yet the witches had withstood him and others like him.”
and funnily enough, Nightsisters managed to defeat Yoda and drove the other Jedi along with him off Dathomir.
-The Essential Guide to the Planets and Moons
It is even more impressive since Yoda is approximately 500 years around this time, meaning he has been a master and training Jedi for about 4 centuries. Considering the fact that Yoda began experiencing the effects of old age when he is over 700 years, Nightsisters being able to defeat a healthy Yoda backed up by other Jedi shows how dangerous they are.
THE MOTHER
Before proceeding to Gethzerion, we have one more important figure to talk about albeit briefly; Mother Talzin. Talzin is among the most powerful figures during the Clone Wars and is the leader of Nightsisters we saw. Let's have a look at her powers and strength.
Power:
Talzin is powerful enough the match Darth Sidious, the most powerful Sith Lord in the history.
Star Wars Insider 149 wrote:“She’s a powerhouse that could go toe-to-toe with Darth Sidious”
Talzin is so powerful that droid armies would not be able to destroy her and Sidious himself has to join them:
Son of Dathomir #1 wrote:Dooku: “Why not simply send our armies to Dathomir?”
Sidious: “Because such methods cannot defeat a witch that powerful.”
Force Barrier:
Talzin is able to conjure a barrier to hold both Sidious and Dooku's Force Lightning briefly:
Force Lightning:
Talzin is able to deploy Force Lightning and she can temporarily contend with Sidious:
I would love to write more about Talzin but she is only a mere tool for now. Let's proceed to the final part.
GETHZERION
Daughter to Clan Mother Augwynne, Gethzerion is the founder and leader of Nightsisters and the most powerful one that ever existed, surpassing the ones such as Asajj Ventress, Daka, Talzin, Zalem and any others. Gethzerion has more than anything to win this round, let me explain.
A) Accolades:
Her own mother, Augwynne acknowledges her strength
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:Augwynne looked at the distant clouds, unconcerned, and a brilliant branch of orange lightning with many tongues arced up into the sky, as if expressly for her to see. "Oh, she's very powerful, and very angry. But for tonight, she will not come."
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:Chewie roared and Augwynne said, “We can’t give Gethzerion a ship. She is too powerful. You can’t give her access to the stars.”
Luke realizes Gethzerion's strength when they face off:
Gethzerion was significantly stronger than rest of her siblings:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:He saw the ground coming up fast, two black-robed Nightsisters standing on the rocks. Luke dropped beside one of them. He shouted in warning. A Nightsister turned, readying a spell. Luke fired. She stood as if angered, flames smoldering from her cloak, and he realized that the Force must be strong in this one. The other ran off into the haze.
The lone witch glared at Luke. Gethzerion pulled back her hood to show the purpled veins in her face.
Gethzerion was significantly stronger than rest of her siblings:
Cracken's Threat Dossier wrote:Of the three sisters, Gethzerion was by far the most powerful of the siblings; she could even cast some spells silently-something only their mother and Clan Protector Tannith could do.
Gethzerion was so powerful that Palpatine was dazed by her strength. Due to her power and the threat she possessed, Palpatine had to strand her on Dathomir, abandoning hundreds of his people in the process:
-The Essential Guide to the Planets and Moons
-The Dark Side Sourcebook
The Essential Guide to the Characters wrote:When he was alive, Emperor Palpatine had known of Gethzerion. He allowed her twisted usage of the dark side of the Force as long as she was trapped on Dathomir, where an Imperial penal colony housed political prisoners.
Knowing the extent of her powers, though, he decided it would be dangerous to let her get off planet, so Palpatine ordered the orbiting airfield destroyed, in the process stranding many of his own people.
The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia wrote:Her powers grew through devotion to the dark side, and she was determined that her clan would rule, and eventually, escape the planet on which she had been stranded by Emperor Palpatine, who had been disturbed by Gethzerion's growing power.
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“Han,” Leia said, “Augwynne has filled me in on a few things. I believe the Emperor himself was afraid of the Nightsisters. That’s why he interdicted this planet. Years ago, he started a nice little penal colony here, not knowing about the Nightsisters. When he learned about them, he blew the planet’s airfield from orbit and stranded hundreds of his own people here, along with the prisoners, rather than risk letting Gethzerion escape. That’s how frightened he was of Gethzerion".
Gethzerion is the most powerful Nightsister:
The Dark Side Sourcebook wrote:The most powerful of the Nightsisters was an aged crone named Gethzerion.
Gethzerion is the creator of spells that Nightsisters use:
Cracken's Threat Dossier wrote:Gethzerion began compiling her own tome of learning. She created spells for her Nightsisters, and would make them practice their chants and songs until they were hoarse.
B ) Feats:
As the original Nightsister, Gethzerion is extremely powerful and has access to many powers and spells:
-Cracken's Threat Dossier
-The Dark Side Sourcebook
Unlike other Nightsisters, Gethzerion doesn't have to perform rituals or chanting:
Cracken's Threat Dossier wrote:She discovered that she was able to cast spells without the aid of chanting and other more primitive rituals.
The Essential Guide to Characters wrote:The Nightsisters were Force wielders whose genes had been developed via selective breeding to assure power. The majority of them believed they had to chant, sing, or perform rituals and spells to use their magic.
Only Gethzerion realized they could use their Force talents without rituals; she used her "powerful" solo magic to intimidate and force her will on others.
This would be an insane advantage for a Nightsister, let alone someone as powerful as Gethzerion. She could perform the most powerful spells with only a gesture, something even Talzin is unable to and require preparations in order to perform them. Additionally, rituals can be interfered within by external factors, as Grievous freeing Dooku from the Voodoo curse that was cast upon him by Talzin.
Gethzerion can summon storms when she is furious:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:Augwynne sat nearby so that she could speak softly to Han and Leia. She noticed how Han frequently eyed the distant storm. "Do not worry yourself," she said. "That is only Gethzerion, thrashing in impotent fury. But she is too far away. There will be no Force storm tonight."
"Gethzerion is making that lightning?" Threepio asked, his eyes suddenly bright. "Why, I wonder how much power output she can produce."
Gethzerion can manipulate the atmosphere of Dathomir and conjure storms:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:The main obstacles to Gethzerion's plan were the younger Tenel Djo of the Singing Mountain Clan, and a Jedi named Luke Skywalker. Force storms Gethzerion conjured up and Zsinj's orbital nightcloak- which was causing Dathomir's atmosphere to cool-battered the Jedi and Nightsister of the light side, but they still held their own.
Gethzerion is capable of probing minds:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:The Nightsister nodded thoughtfully. Luke could feel her trying to probe them, and he almost pulled his blaster. Instead, he channeled the Force, let it flow into the witch, quiet her suspicions.
Gethezerion enters Han's mind, showing him atrocities that he is unable to resist against:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:A hand waved in front of his face, a hand partly concealed by a black robe, and Han perceived that he was viewing the scene through Gethzerion's eyes. The stormtroopers looked at her waving hand, began firing into the crowd. Men and women screamed and scattered, trying to run from blaster fire, but the gates back to the cell blocks had closed, and they could not escape. Han threw his arm in front of his eyes, tried to blind himself to the atrocities, but the vision persisted. He could not close his eyes against it, for the vision remained even when his eyes shut. Nor could he turn away, for the images followed him: a woman ran shrieking below the parapet, and Han saw Gethzerion's hand go up, blaster aimed as if he were staring through the laser sights, and she snapped a shot into the woman's back. Gethzerion's victim spun with the impact of the blast, then collapsed, stunned, as Gethzerion pulled off another shot. A man beside the dying woman raised his clasped hands, pleading for Gethzerion to spare them. The witch fired high into his right leg and the prisoner was thrown to the floor to die slowly as he bled to death.
Gethzerion effortlessly oneshots Luke Skywalker, ripping blood vessels in his brain:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:“I’ve met your kind before,” Luke said. “Listen to me, Gethzerion: turn away from the dark side before it is too late!”
Gethzerion nodded thoughtfully. “Pardon me if I say that I don’t find you to be very impressive, young Jedi. It’s a shame that you must die before you have a chance to witness how I make your friends writhe.”
She pointed a finger at Luke, and before Luke even recognized her evil intent, a ripple of Force slammed into him. White lights exploded behind his eyes, and the right side of his face felt as if it had been smashed by a hammer. His left arm and right leg crumpled under their unbearable weight, and he dropped to the ground on one knee, stunned. All the noise and blaster fire and screams of pain died away, became a distant roaring. Gethzerion pointed at him again, twitched her finger, and his eyes lost focus. He felt the hammer blow to his left temple, dropped to his side and rolled over to his back, gasping. Luke stared up at the sky, watching streams of rocks hurtling above him—some propelled by the Force, others hurled by rancors.
Time seemed to slow. His head throbbed, pounding to the same rhythm as the beating of his heart. His face had gone cold, numb, and Luke realized distantly that Gethzerion’s spell had ripped open blood vessels in his brain, and he was about to die, one among hundreds of fatalities on this battlefield.
This happens as of 8 ABY, meaning Luke had 4 years of growth since Return of the Jedi.
Gethzerion effortlessly kills General Melvar, the right-hand man of Zsinj along with a hundred Stormtroopers within three seconds:
The Courtship of Princess Leia wrote:Melvar got up, tried to recover his dignity, and took the detonator. "Thank you," he grunted.
"Ah, and allow me to do you one more favor!" Gethzerion whispered, stepping forward. "By giving you this—” Her eyes opened wide, blazing, and she made a raking motion with her index finger. Beside Han the general gasped, reached up to hold his temple, then staggered forward a pace. "A simple death!" Gethzerion cackled. All around Han, a hundred stormtroopers crumpled simultaneously, some of them staggering a step or two, some firing blaster rifles in the air so that Han instinctively ducked. Within three seconds the stormtroopers lay on the ground like drugged birds, unmoving. Han looked up at the carrier, waiting for the ship to open fire. Nothing happened. The ship remained deathly still.
Gethzerion being able to instantly kill +100 men and oneshot post-RotJ Luke Skywalker is an insane feat, considering the latter had four years of growth ever since he was equally as strong as Darth Vader.
C ) Gethzerion's Growth and Scaling:
As the founder of Nightsisters, Gethzerion had been around for centuries, rise and fall of other Clan Mothers thus scaling above all of them, including Talzin. Massively pre-prime Gethzerion is capable of silent chanting which is something even Talzin is incapable of. Gethzerion is the creator of the spells Nightsisters and Talzin use and unlike the latter, she doesn't need rituals or preparations to cast them. There are several quotes confirming this, which I already added above. Additionally, the Nightsisters are noted to grow even more powerful after the Clone Wars and the Rise of the Empire:
- The Dark Side Sourcebook
-The Dark Side Sourcebook
As an extra, Talzin and her clan wasn't eager to leave Dathomir, where their base of operations existed. Talzin was using the power of Spirit Ichor to supply and fortify their magic. Unlike them, Gethzerion would rather leave the dying planet and wasn't amplified or needed such methods to fuel herself.
Considering Talzin was near equal / a match for Sidious, the strongest Sith Lord ever existed, Gethzerion scales vastly above both of them. Furthermore, a way stronger version of Palpatine was cautious and stunned by the power of a Gethzerion who hasn't reached her peak yet and stranded her on Dathomir til the very moment he died by Darth Vader's hand.
Conclusion
Firstly, I established the potential and capabilities of Nightsister Magic, how unique and varied it is, allowing Nightsisters to defeat their opponents in many ways with barely any counter acts. Jedi and Sith had studied their lore and possess knowledge regarding both parties' techniques but they barely have any information against the Nightsister Magic which contains tons of spells, curses, effects, etc. and this grants a notable advantage for the Nightsisters, as evidenced by lowest ranking members of the clan causing so much trouble for powerful individuals such as Luke Skywalker and Yoda.
Then we have the showings of Talzin against Darth Sidious and Tyranus, who was more more than a match for the strongest Sith the galaxy had ever seen. Despite all her power, Talzin lacked the strength and skill of Gethzerion, who scales above both the Sith and Clone Wars Nightsisters, possessing the most unique ability a Nightsister can ever have, the ability to cast spells/utilize from Force without chanting and rituals. Combined with her power, she already demonstrated how lethal and instant her might can be: killing over hundred troopers within seconds, effortlessly oneshotting Luke Skywalker and leaving him to die, manipulating the atmosphere of a planet, conjuring storms and enslaving the wills of hundreds.
As a result, Gethzerion has everything to defeat her opponent, effortlessly. Exoteric abilities, superior scaling & power, uncounterable magic, knowledge and else. Accept the supremacy of Nightsisters and vote for Gethzerion. Thanks for reading.
As a result, Gethzerion has everything to defeat her opponent, effortlessly. Exoteric abilities, superior scaling & power, uncounterable magic, knowledge and else. Accept the supremacy of Nightsisters and vote for Gethzerion. Thanks for reading.
- Gianfi
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 7:41 am
Aniway, how did Krayt or Anakin end up above Yoda?
- Nute_ChethrayModerator
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 7:58 am
The kick probably killed the opponent, in which case they would fall backwards.BoD wrote:And yet he can apparently ragdoll both of them in combat, yet can't dispatch or knock away the HoT or Satele in that time.DarthAnt66 wrote:BoD wrote:Those trailers are in-game footage of class abilities. The SOR trailer is a scripted cinematic event, like a cutscene.
Interesting, because the same trailer has Revan fighting evenly against the HoT and Satele.
Two seconds of footage unfortunately can't tell us the relative standing of Revan to HOT and Satele.
As for those scenes not being scripted:
https://youtu.be/HTCDPhuQYYg?t=68
You can't do this in the game. The closest to it is Force kick, which definitely does not send your opponent flying. Quite a few examples of them performing scripted events that aren't in-game in the trailers, actually.
Also OT: Revan again. If he could just enter the list already I could start voting on other characters smh
- The LostLevel Five
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 8:07 am
Cracking Nightsister wank, Gromit!
Geth seems to be a serious contender. Is she as potent off-Dathomir? That will determine whether or not I throw her my vote.
Geth seems to be a serious contender. Is she as potent off-Dathomir? That will determine whether or not I throw her my vote.
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 8:08 am
Also OT: Revan again. If he could just enter the list already I could start voting on other characters smh
Or you can vote for better characters such as Gethzerion instead of lost causes like Revan
- HellfireUnitLevel Six
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 8:08 am
ILS wrote:Cracking Nightsister wank, Gromit!
Geth seems to be a serious contender. Is she as potent off-Dathomir? That will determine whether or not I throw her my vote.
Bro I just recovered from Corona, give me some time
- IGLevel Four
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 8:52 am
KFV is superior to Yoda canonically, and Krayt receives some pretty good upscaling from Kenobi, plus his own stuff generally, as well as holistic intent has him > Yoda and ROTS Sheev imo.Gianfi wrote:Aniway, how did Krayt or Anakin end up above Yoda?
- EmperorCaedusLevel Three
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 9:05 am
How does holistic intent put Krayt > RotS titans?
- IGLevel Four
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 9:08 am
He's clearly depicted as the next great Sith threat, the next Palpatine. As early as FOTJ, Krayt is depicted as more powerful than the likes of Caedus, someone I have with Dooku, meaning Krayt being with the PT Titans is really a baseline for his power at this stage, there's no way he isn't close.EmperorCaedus wrote:How does holistic intent put Krayt > RotS titans?
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan
March 10th 2020, 9:29 am
Excellent case, Unit. Definitely something to consider for the future. But I must contend that the hierarchy of the New Republic makes it quite clear that Exar Kun's spirit is more powerful than her. There are a number of less direct comparisons in his favor, let's start there.
The focal point quote:
Whilst this might not seemingly mean much against Geth, it has direct encompassing implications:
First of all, Gethzerion is not a focal point/nexus of the dark side. Whereas Exar Kun and Darth Sidious are, and not just that, but two of the most powerful Luke has ever encountered. Given Luke's reaction to Sidious being a nexus it is clear, as you would expect, that such has a direct correlation to one's power. Luke literally gives up the idea of besting Sidious on the basis of him being a nexus, which Gethzerion is not. There's further claims to be made regarding the above quote but I think this suits nicely.
Secondly, the Luke that spirit Kun defeats and is stated to be capable of defeating solo, is in his prime and far more powerful than he was against Gethzerion:
Lastly, the spirit of Exar Kun is noted to be the only one that matches Kueller who is approaching the power of reborn Darth Sidious who as explained earlier dwarfs Gethzerion's power vis'a'vis Luke's corruption:
The above is dismissed on the basis of Luke heavily-wounded, having given Kueller a good fight. This is a false assertion:
This is demonstrated in the fights where in the first one, Luke just gets beaten solidly:
In the second fight, Luke is similarly beaten badly and literally resorts to winning through non-combative means:
This is supported by the fact that Luke himself knows he'd need full strength to have a chance of winning:
Simply put, Kueller is more powerful than anything since Palpatine bar Kun and is approaching Palpatine's power and is demonstratably at least as powerful as full strength BFC!Luke if not moreso. There's no reason to doubt this.
Exar Kun even in spiritual form is simply > Gethzerion by all means of comparison and indication.
The focal point quote:
Specters of the Past wrote:There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him. And laughing.
Whilst this might not seemingly mean much against Geth, it has direct encompassing implications:
Dark Empire Endnotes wrote:The key to Luke's turning is the moment when he and Leia realize the Emperor is no longer defined by his physical form, but has become a chaotic nexus of dark energies that swell and burst open the fabric of space, tearing apart everything in the vicinity, human and machine.
First of all, Gethzerion is not a focal point/nexus of the dark side. Whereas Exar Kun and Darth Sidious are, and not just that, but two of the most powerful Luke has ever encountered. Given Luke's reaction to Sidious being a nexus it is clear, as you would expect, that such has a direct correlation to one's power. Luke literally gives up the idea of besting Sidious on the basis of him being a nexus, which Gethzerion is not. There's further claims to be made regarding the above quote but I think this suits nicely.
Secondly, the Luke that spirit Kun defeats and is stated to be capable of defeating solo, is in his prime and far more powerful than he was against Gethzerion:
Champions of the Force wrote:Luke clapped him on the back and smiled with dark-ringed eyes that shone with an inner brightness stronger than ever before. As he conquered each seemingly insurmountable obstacle, Luke's Jedi powers grew greater and greater- but, like Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda, a Jedi Master learned to use his powers even less, relying on wits instead of showmanship.
I, Jedi wrote:When we had met before I had felt power in him, but now, after his experiences with the Emperor Reborn, his power had been redoubled. Physically he looked a bit haggard and worn, with the flesh around his eyes having tightened and wrinkles appearing at their corners. I knew we were the same age chronologically, but in experience he far surpassed me.
Lastly, the spirit of Exar Kun is noted to be the only one that matches Kueller who is approaching the power of reborn Darth Sidious who as explained earlier dwarfs Gethzerion's power vis'a'vis Luke's corruption:
New Rebellion wrote:She wished she had the same certainty. This Kueller had more Force capability than anyone she had encountered in years. Except Exar Kun, and he had been a spirit. Kueller was alive. He was using these deaths to replenish his own well of hatred. The dark side ate people from within, but while it did so, it gave them much too much power. He appeared to have more power than she had. More power than Luke.
New Rebellion wrote:The presence had neared. It was strong in the dark side. He could feel the ripples, feel a power he hadn’t felt in a living being since he encountered the Emperor. Luke had never had a student that powerful, of that he was certain. Whoever it was became powerful after he had left the academy. So powerful that a man like Brakiss, who had so much talent in the Force that the Empire had taken him, as a baby, to train in the dark side, was terrified of him. Once Leia had asked Luke what it felt like when he knew someone steeped in the dark side was near. He hadn’t been trained enough as a young Jedi to understand the feeling. It was only later, as he grew in strength, that he understood. And he couldn’t explain it then. He could now. It felt as if a tornado had struck in the middle of a beautiful day. It felt like a blast of cold air in a warm room. It felt as if someone beloved had just died.
Mara Jade, New Rebellion wrote:“I haven’t felt power like this since Palpatine in the early days. If this continues, Han, Kueller will be stronger than the Emperor ever was, and he’ll do it quicker.”
The above is dismissed on the basis of Luke heavily-wounded, having given Kueller a good fight. This is a false assertion:
The Essential Guide to Planets and Moons wrote:An inexperienced Leia and an injured Luke were no match for Kueller's dark side power.
This is demonstrated in the fights where in the first one, Luke just gets beaten solidly:
Essential Guide to Characters wrote:He traveled to Pydyr, where Skywalker recognized the skull-masked nightmare as Dolph, his former pupil. Skywalker tried to reach the core of goodness inside Kueller, but failed. The Almanian autocrat forced a lightsaber duel and easily defeated his hobbled opponent.
New Rebellion wrote:He slashed at Luke. In one quick movement, Luke grabbed his lightsaber and blocked Kueller’s swipe with his own blade. The electric clang of the sabers filled the air, sending sparks all around them. Each movement ripped at Luke’s back, but he focused on the blade instead: parrying, defending, blocking, never really attacking. He would wait until Kueller was open before making his move. Kueller hit at Luke’s left, then his right, then his heart. But Luke kept blocking. Kueller pushed Luke backward, toward the house. Luke stumbled on his weak leg, and collapsed on the knee. A river of pain ran through his thigh. Kueller brought his lightsaber down onto Luke’s shoulder, but Luke rolled away from it, his back burning as dirt from the road ground into his wounds. He pushed himself up and swiped at Kueller, singeing his cape. The hum of lightsabers filled the air. Sweat ran down Luke’s face. His strength was gone. He had gone through too much in the last few days. But he concentrated on Kueller’s movements, lived for Kueller’s movements, blocked them, anticipated them, and held his ground. In a series of five rapid thrusts, Kueller moved Luke backward again. Luke parried, parried, parried, but couldn’t keep his balance. His ankle was clearly broken and unable to support him. Kueller jabbed at Luke’s left side. Luke swiveled to dodge, and Kueller jabbed again. Luke’s ankle buckled, but he didn’t fall. Kueller pushed closer, and knocked Luke’s lightsaber from his hand. Kueller held his blue blade beneath Luke’s chin. Luke could feel its heat, smell its electric tang.
In the second fight, Luke is similarly beaten badly and literally resorts to winning through non-combative means:
New Rebellion wrote:Luke dodged as Leia's lightsaber sailed in the air toward him, landing neatly in his fingers.
Immediately he ignited the blade and its reassuring hum echoed in the growing darkness.
"Ah," Kueller said. "So you have chosen to fight me. Careful, Master Skywalker. If you do so with the wrong attitude, you might join my side."
"I've fought better than you, Kueller," Luke said. The lightsaber felt odd in his hand. "And won."
"Years ago, Skywalker. You've become complacent." Kueller slashed at Luke. Luke parried, the electric clash of blades ringing in the night air.
Then Kueller whirled and blocked several bursts of blaster fire. Leia peeked out of the bay doors.
"Leave him alone, Kueller. It's me you want!" she yelled.
His death mask glowed from an internal light. It made his smile even more sinister than usual. "Actually, President, I want your entire family. Without them, there are no true Jedi." Luke inched closer. His blade was still out, still humming. He wanted Kueller to fight him, not Leia. Leia wasn't ready yet. "Actually, Kueller, there are dozens of Jedi now."
"But not Jedi Masters, Skywalker."
"There are more than you imagine," Luke said, thinking of Callista. She would provide quite a battle against Kueller, even without the Force.
Kueller turned to Luke, and Leia fired again. Without even looking at her, Kueller blocked the blaster shots. The shots flew harmlessly to the sides. Then her blaster rose in the air, and exploded a few feet above her head.
"Use another of those, President, and it will explode in your hand."
"You like explosions, don't you, Kueller?" she said. Luke suppressed a smile. She was trying to distract him so Luke could attack. But it wasn't that easy. Kueller had pushed Luke far enough that Luke's feelings were confused. He wasn't certain if he was going after Kueller out of anger or hatred, instead of in defense. That would only make Kueller stronger.
He seemed to be stronger anyway, giving credence to Luke's theory.
"Small explosions, President," Kueller said, his blade still locked with Luke's. "Large ones destroy wealth." Leia stepped out of the bay. She was unarmed. "Even if you kill us, Kueller, you won't get the rest of us. The explosives you put in the droids won't work. We shut the droids off."
"Did you, now?" Kueller's tone was mocking. Luke could feel the physical pressure Kueller was putting on the blade. They were locked in a battle of wills, their strength holding the blades together in a haze of light. "You managed to tell all the developed planets about the droids, President? Because if you didn't, then I will still get enough strength from one single order to defeat you all. " A chill ran through Luke. All those lives. All those billions of lives. They meant nothing more to Kueller than a breath of air, a surge of adrenaline, a swallow of food. Anger flowed through Luke, deep and fine and rich. He had created this monster. Luke, through his arrogance, had given Kueller all the tools he needed to destroy the entire galaxy. If Luke hadn't taught all his students about the dark side, if he hadn't warned them repeatedly and in detail about the quick and easy path, then Kueller would still be Dolph, not this hateful being who wore a death mask proudly and dealt in lives as a smuggler dealt in stolen goods.
Kueller turned toward Luke and grinned. His lightsaber broke free from the enmeshment and whooshed near Luke. Luke jumped aside, pain shivering through his back, and down his arms.
Kueller had suddenly gotten stronger.
"Kueller!" Leia shouted. She held another blaster. He turned his attention to her, and Luke thrust his blade toward Kueller's side, drawing blood before Kueller swirled away.
Easy blood. The lightsaber moved with a sureness Luke had never felt before.
Leia's blaster was turning red. She tossed it aside before it exploded, and rolled in the opposite direction.
Kueller had turned back to Luke, thrusting, parrying, thrusting, their sabers locked in a battle as loud and spark-filled as Luke's battle with Vader. Kueller's breath hissed through the mask, but it wasn't Vader's stentorian breathing that it imitated.
It was the Emperor's greedy gasping.
Luke staggered under Kueller's next blow, and barely managed to roll aside. His ankle kept buckling under him, but he forced himself to put weight on it. They had moved into the alleyway Luke had seen in that strange moment of vision. Stones littered the ground all around them, and the light only came through a small opening on either end. Luke could no longer see Leia.
Use your aggressive feelings, boy! Let the hate flow through you.
Kueller struck at him, his blow shattering a nearby rock. He was stronger. Much stronger. And his strength seemed to be increasing. Luke's arms were growing tired battling the power of Kueller's blade.
Then Kueller laughed, a gurgling, familiar laugh. The Emperor's laugh, the unamused choking of a slave to the dark side.
Fueled by hatred, anger, and fear.
Luke was making him stronger. Luke's response, his hatred, his own self-loathing at creating this thing, this student who had become a horror, was making the thing even stronger.
Kueller slammed his blade against Luke's, and the sparks lit the area all around them. Luke parried. Parried again. And again. He was trapped in a cycle of hatred and anger. If he fought, Kueller got stronger, and if he attacked, Kueller got stronger still.
Luke glanced at the mouth of the alley.
No Leia.
He was alone with this thing he had created. The rogue student. The Vader to his Ben.
Vader.
Ben.
Luke grinned. He suddenly knew what he had to do to break free.
[...]
Luke was raising his lightsaber, his heart pounding. He was reaching out with the Force, going back to the place he had gone when he first fought Exar Kun. He would be out of his body but protected within the Force. Just as Ben had done in his battle with Darth Vader.
Luke would come back even stronger, and he would guide Leia to defeat Kueller.
Luke's lightsaber had reached a thirty-degree angle with his chin when he felt as if he were wrapped in a warm, soft blanket. He could still see through his eyes, but the rest of his senses were suddenly dim. He could no longer sense Leia or even Kueller.
His blade came up, and Kueller's blade swung back, but Luke couldn't leave his own body. He had lost the Force. It was gone. He was blind and numb without it.
He would die without it.
Kueller's blade came down, and Luke limped out of the way only to back into the ruined tower wall. Kueller had him cornered. There was no place to go.
Luke was trapped, both inside, and out.
Kueller felt as if he were moving through mud. The swift grace that had come with his lightsaber training faded as if it had never been. The strength that had flowed through him since he killed the Je'har had suddenly disappeared.
He could no longer feel Skywalker's anger. Or his sister's fear.
Or even that strange new wrinkle in the Force he had felt a moment earlier.
Skywalker backed away from him, and Kueller brought his lightsaber down. It slammed into the stone wall behind Skywalker, sending sparks flying and a shimmer up his arm. Kueller staggered sideways.
He didn't know what kind of trick Skywalker was using on him. He suddenly couldn't think very clearly. It was as if he had been tossed underwater. All that he relied on within himself had disappeared.
Then he noticed a similar expression on Skywalker's face. The man looked stunned. He wasn't manipulating his own lightsaber as he should.
If Skywalker wasn't doing this, then who-?
Kueller turned, and started when he saw two new figures standing in front of the alley. He couldn't see them well in the twilight, and as he reached with the Force, he couldn't feel them. Had they caused this? Who were they? What were they doing to him?
Skywalker brought up his own lightsaber as if it weighed ten times more than usual. Kueller's felt equally heavy.
This wouldn't work. Thwarted again, somehow, by Skywalker and his friends.
Anger surged through Kueller, but it didn't increase his strength. He roared at them, and Skywalker laughed. Laughed.
All advantage that Kueller had gained was lost. He let his lightsaber fall to the ground. Not all was lost. He still had one more trick up his very full sleeve.
This is supported by the fact that Luke himself knows he'd need full strength to have a chance of winning:
New Rebellion wrote:He was resting, regaining his strength as best he could. The feeling of being watched was gone, for the moment, but he knew it would return. And it had something to do with Almania. After he let the food settle, he would question the house’s computer again. He was hoping it knew of a bacta tank or the Pydyrian equivalent. Anything to help him heal faster. He had to do more than Jedi practices. He knew that he would need all of his strength.
Simply put, Kueller is more powerful than anything since Palpatine bar Kun and is approaching Palpatine's power and is demonstratably at least as powerful as full strength BFC!Luke if not moreso. There's no reason to doubt this.
Exar Kun even in spiritual form is simply > Gethzerion by all means of comparison and indication.
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