Greatest Lightsaber Duelists

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:1. Luke Skywalker/Palpatine/Darth Krayt
2. Yoda/Darth Vader
3. Mace Windu/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Plagueis
4. Darth Tyranus/Darth Wyyrlok III
5. Darth Maul/Darth Tenebrous

What makes you put Sidious over Yoda and what is your reasoning for Krayt being so high? (not disagreeing btw, just curious)

The Emperor's clone bodies were stronger than his original, so he could use Force augmentation to a greater extent than in RotS. And with Krayt, it's basically him growing immensely more powerful from already giving peak Kenobi hell.

1. What evidence is there to support that Krayt continued to improve his saber skills and not just his power in the force? Of course being more powerful in the force means better aug but unless he actually continued to improve as a duelist, I'm not sold that he should be top 3 over Yoda

2. Does better aug really cover the gap between Yoda and Palps as duelists tho? Didn't when Yoda go all out he stomped with a blade pretty quickly? That could be incorrect but I recall seeing someone say that

1. Krayt states he "honed his skills in the Clone Wars and [has] killed thousands of opponents since then, and Insider # 113 states "Krayt perfected his combat techniques over many decades." Furthermore, Force strength and lightsaber prowess are inextricably linked: one affects the other deeply. With Krayt, this can be seen in his respective fights against Cade Skywalker where he stomps a more powerful Cade in just a few moves whereas earlier, still encased in the vonduun armor, he had a decent fight against a weaker, less experienced Cade. Krayt didn't get more skilled between the two engagements, merely more powerful, yet that in itself was enough to create a large difference.

2. Yoda used a concentrated burst of speed to disarm Sidious, and Sidious had an environmental disadvantage. Multiple quotes state they're equals in dueling. By Dark Empire, the Reborn Emperor should definitely have surpassed Yoda.

Fair enough on Krayt. Also how Did Sidious have an environmental advantage? I've seen many people say that but I've never seen anyone actually elaborate on how he had an advantage

DarthAnt66 wrote:

Azronger wrote:With Krayt, this can be seen in his respective fights against Cade Skywalker where he stomps a more powerful Cade in just a few moves

That fight was anything but a stomp or "just a few moves," lol.

Azronger wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Blade_of_Dorin wrote:

Azronger wrote:1. Luke Skywalker/Palpatine/Darth Krayt
2. Yoda/Darth Vader
3. Mace Windu/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Darth Plagueis
4. Darth Tyranus/Darth Wyyrlok III
5. Darth Maul/Darth Tenebrous

What makes you put Sidious over Yoda and what is your reasoning for Krayt being so high? (not disagreeing btw, just curious)

The Emperor's clone bodies were stronger than his original, so he could use Force augmentation to a greater extent than in RotS. And with Krayt, it's basically him growing immensely more powerful from already giving peak Kenobi hell.

1. What evidence is there to support that Krayt continued to improve his saber skills and not just his power in the force? Of course being more powerful in the force means better aug but unless he actually continued to improve as a duelist, I'm not sold that he should be top 3 over Yoda

2. Does better aug really cover the gap between Yoda and Palps as duelists tho? Didn't when Yoda go all out he stomped with a blade pretty quickly? That could be incorrect but I recall seeing someone say that

1. Krayt states he "honed his skills in the Clone Wars and [has] killed thousands of opponents since then, and Insider # 113 states "Krayt perfected his combat techniques over many decades." Furthermore, Force strength and lightsaber prowess are inextricably linked: one affects the other deeply. With Krayt, this can be seen in his respective fights against Cade Skywalker where he stomps a more powerful Cade in just a few moves whereas earlier, still encased in the vonduun armor, he had a decent fight against a weaker, less experienced Cade. Krayt didn't get more skilled between the two engagements, merely more powerful, yet that in itself was enough to create a large difference.

2. Yoda used a concentrated burst of speed to disarm Sidious, and Sidious had an environmental disadvantage. Multiple quotes state they're equals in dueling. By Dark Empire, the Reborn Emperor should definitely have surpassed Yoda.

Fair enough on Krayt. Also how Did Sidious have an environmental advantage? I've seen many people say that but I've never seen anyone actually elaborate on how he had an advantage

No, I just said he had a disadvantage, not an advantage.

Azronger wrote:Eh?
They're only seen clashing lightsabers once, and in the next panel Cade is pinned to the floor, and that was the end of the martial portion of the fight. We only saw Krayt make two moves, so yes, that qualifies as "a stomp" "in just a few moves" to me.

DarthAnt66 wrote:@Blade_of_Dorin: I would say it's more that Yoda had an environmental advantage, given he could easily exploit his size and agility in the Senate pod.

In-sidiousvader wrote:This is hard, I will not be acknowledging NJO as in my headcanon it never happened, and it just muddies things up.
Theoretically if I were to include the NJO it might take up my entire list, so instead I have opted for a specific way of thinking, I will be ranking duelists during the time-frame of the original 7 star wars films, this includes EU backround but excludes TOR, KOTOR, NJO etc... only TCW, Empire era, and pre TPM and onwards will be analyzed.

Arguable: ROTJ Luke (enraged) but I don't think his victory over Vader really had anything to do with skill, Luke overpowered Vader in a direct Blade lock, for reference Luke was incapable of sustaining a basic bladelock with a holding back Vader, so the amp was significant, not going to get into this, but suffice it to say, Luke may be the Greatest Duelist period even at this stage.
1: The single greatest duelist of the entire Filmverse including EU material is Darth Vader: being more skilled than Anakin skywalker simply puts him here otherwise he would be far far lower.
Honorable mention/1.5: MF Kenobi, Lord Vader have mercy, contending with MFV puts him this high, but if this doesn't prove "the force" is a mguffin what does?
2: Yoda, this guy is breaching Anakin's paygrade but still below him
3: Count Dooku, you think Sheev is tough? you think Sheev is a god tier swordsman? Do some research and you will see Dooku dueling wank is OP
4: Darth Sidious, only this low because Yoda and Dooku have better showings, Dooku specifically facing off against Yoda and doing far better than sheev himself did (Though this was a superior Yoda to the one Dooku fought)
5: Asharad Hett, this guy probably confuses you all and he could easily be moved lower if the MF revelation was a one time amp, but seeing as how it likely carried over, this Tusken did damn fine against the guy who held off MFV... he deserves higher, but I am keeping him low because he is so damn unquantifiable, plus Kenobi was arguably hindered, and holding back perhaps.
6: Asajj Ventress could be above this Mace, to be honest.
7: The General of the CIS
8: Le Mace Windu, ffs why is this character so lame? He's got a neat book that provides an introspective on war, but WHY??? I want to like Mace I want to rank him higher, but without his Vaapad amp he is nothing special.
9: F*cking Maul
10: The stupidity that is Qui-gon Jinn

In-sidiousvader wrote:

DarthAnt66 wrote:@Blade_of_Dorin: I would say it's more that Yoda had an environmental advantage, given he could easily exploit his size and agility in the Senate pod.

Yeah um... that also plays to his disadvantage, if we assume Sheev and Yoda are comparable (like any reasonable human being) we have to take into account the fact that he is smaller and therefore more likely to be thrown around, Sheev is striking with the combined strength of Maul and Savage with each blow, Yoda would have to be taking a more defensive stance something we know he doesn't like dueling. For me personally I see both sides as hindered, since Yoda was trying to dance circles around sheev, while not falling off the pod imo.

Paddlepants wrote:How is Galen Marek > Luke???

Paddlepants wrote:What kind of logic is that? That’s like me saying Sora Bulq > Qui-Gon as a duelist because he’s got better Force feats.

LOTL wrote:A superior connection to the force generally results in better lightsaber dueling ability. Both are connected.

Of course, but you have to take a holistic look at a character, rather than just picking one over the other because one has lots of showy Force feats.

Again, according to HP’s logic there, Bulq > RotJ Luke because Luke doesn’t have “comparable force feats”.

Paddlepants wrote: people think he’s around Dooku level as well