Darth Marr vs Darth Vader

Who wins?

Vader in a goodish fight. More skilled and (if ROTJ) a fair bit more powerful.

by TFU he could prolly get a very solid win

Marr takes this comfortably

BoD wrote:Vader in a goodish fight. More skilled and (if ROTJ) a fair bit more powerful.

Goodish fight?

Heretical

If Marr beats Dooku, Marr beats Vader

CuckedCurry wrote:If Marr beats Dooku, Marr beats Vader

marr doesnt beat dooku then. 

Jake said he does though.

cool

Jake said he does though

i 100% DONT doubt it.

IG wrote:Marr takes this comfortably

What's the case for Marr here?  I've played the game extensively and don't recall anything that would put him on Vader's level tbh.  Does he have feats/statements outside the game that hype him up more?

@nfactor1995 He's supposed to be >= FE Malgus

IG wrote:@nfactor1995 He's supposed to be >= FE Malgus

Is he?  Was there a statement in the game about that?  The only one I can think of is the one that shows up in his bio (ROTHC or SoR, can't remember when you get it) that says his power is second to none in the Empire.

Marr dies like a bitch

Even with scaling over FE Malgus, the gap is minimal, and Vader should still be above him.

Vader, and it's not particularly close.

Corvinus wrote:Vader, and it's not particularly close.

Why? Marr is more powerful than FE Malgus, who required a strike team of all of either side's protagonists, meaning either Nox and Wrath II (plus Cipher 9 and Scree) or HoT and Barsen'thor (plus Voidhound and Meteor), all of whom (force users) are extremely impressive. Barsen'thor (and HoT) scales far, far above Vivicar, who has incredibly impressive accolades and feats, HoT is > anyone in the order as of Act I, including Tol Braga, who fought a 3 day long duel with Sajar, a member of the Dark Council, who are described as "the galaxy's most powerful Sith". Yet Scourge as of Mid-Act II is confident he can defeat the HoT + Sajar at once. The HoT stalemates/defeats Scourge at the end of Act II and continues to grow until he is capable of defeating a weakened Vitiate Dromund Kaas (the mission log says after killing him, "for all his power, [Vitiate] was no match for you"), who while on death's door is able to bring down the Dark Temple with Telekinesis. Considering that the temple was designed to contain spirits, including the likes of Aloysius Kallig, who drove hundreds in the vicinity of the temple mad, I think it's safe to say that the HoT as of this point is rather impressive. Yet Malgus is still equal or superior to him. There's no reason Vader wins against a foe more powerful than people that scale vastly above bringing down massive temples meant to contain spirits while on death's door.

Why? Marr is more powerful than FE Malgus,

Arguably, based off a single quote.

who required a strike team of all of either side's protagonists, meaning either Nox and Wrath II (plus Cipher 9 and Scree) or HoT and Barsen'thor (plus Voidhound and Meteor), all of whom (force users) are extremely impressive.

And all of whom had fought through a small army, including a highly trained assassin droid trained to take down Force users, countless giant war machines, countless Sith, warriors of different cultures and races, and Mandalorians. He then lost to them. 

Barsen'thor (and HoT) scales far, far above Vivicar, who has incredibly impressive accolades and feats,

TP =/= raw power. His "casting a shadow over the system" accolade is from someone immersed in his darkness for years and who had no way to sense how strong he really was since he was quickly overwhelmed. It's about as clear an indicator of raw power as Roan Shryne describing Vader as a "black hole". It's clearly exaggerated.

HoT is > anyone in the order as of Act I, including Tol Braga, who fought a 3 day long duel with Sajar, a member of the Dark Council, who are described as "the galaxy's most powerful Sith".

Clearly not, since Tol Braga was performing comparably well against Vitiate's lightning. 

Yet Scourge as of Mid-Act II is confident he can defeat the HoT + Sajar at once.

Scourge is hardly a reliable source. Even if he is, this doesn't mean much.

The HoT stalemates/defeats Scourge at the end of Act II and continues to grow until he is capable of defeating a weakened Vitiate Dromund Kaas (the mission log says after killing him, "for all his power, [Vitiate] was no match for you"), who while on death's door is able to bring down the Dark Temple with Telekinesis.

Vitiate had about 20-30 seconds to draw upon every drop of power as well as the dark side nexus to bring down the Dark Temple. Also, for all we know it was a domino effect (i.e. shaking apart one foundation brought down the entire structure). 

Considering that the temple was designed to contain spirits, including the likes of Aloysius Kallig, who drove hundreds in the vicinity of the temple mad, I think it's safe to say that the HoT as of this point is rather impressive. Yet Malgus is still equal or superior to him.

Impressive, but not enough. The codex states:


Although the Dark Temple grounds have always been a dangerous place for the weak-willed (the expansion of the Kaas City power grid into tunnels beneath the temple drove a thousand slaves mad),



Most dark side nexuses are capable of it, and since these spirits were tethered to the Temple there's no reason they weren't amped by its power. That's not to mention that driving the weak-minded mad over an undefined period of time (likely months or even a year or two) isn't exactly out of the realm of possibility for a being like Maul, let alone Vader. It's not even noted that it's down to the spirits. 

There's no reason Vader wins against a foe more powerful than people that scale vastly above bringing down massive temples meant to contain spirits while on death's door

19 BBY Vader was able to bring down a cathedral with a labyrinth underneath it after having just willed himself back from the brink of death and with his will to live (and thus, his willpower) almost completely gone. This was before his massive growth after killing Roan Shryne, then his growth after killing other Force users, then his huge growth between ANH and ESB, and then his growth again between ESB and ROTJ. 

So why does Malgus > HoT >> act 3 Vitiate scale higher than ROTJ Vader > ESB Vader >>> ANH Vader > TFU 2 Vader > TFU Vader >>> 19 BBY Vader?

@IG A very questionable premise, though regardless of Marr's power in relation to FE Malgus, Vader's scaling is better.

Vader destroys.