Darth Caedus vs Darish Vol vs Darth Krayt

Caedus as of Invincible (at full health, obviously), Vol as of his fight with Abeloth, Krayt as of Apocalypse.

Well Apocalypse Krayt has been debunked as being near Luke (he's not at his prime, the guy isn't PT Titan level), Caedus' antifeat galore exists, and Vol is rather unquantifiable bar Mnemotherapy. I'd give it to either Krayt or Vol though, Caedus can technically be argued to Workan level or the like, and Vol instantaneously curbs that.

Caedus kills.

Krayt or Vol

@EmperorCaedus Based on what?

Caedus' relativity to LotF Luke surpassing both Vol and Krayt.

@EmperorCaedus Relativity my ass.

Krayt.

Caedus is canonically superior.

Vol obliterates.

Krayt.

Caedus, considering he's canonically the strongest of the three via Blood Oath & shouldn't be terribly far below Krayt as a duelist.

Krayt

Tondemonai wrote:Caedus, considering he's canonically the strongest of the three via Blood Oath & shouldn't be terribly far below Krayt as a duelist.

He has a more powerful military, yes.  

Vol isn't being considered in the quote, as he didn't exist as a character yet.  And Krayt probably isn't being considered in the text either seen as that particular cereal box quote came out before Krayt's feature in FOTJ.  

And Krayt is just holistically superior as well - the dark man who actually plagued Luke's dreams, as oppose to Caedus

Ziggy wrote:
He has a more powerful military, yes.  

I don't see this as the case. Mentioning the forces of Darth Caedus before doesn't make Caedus the most powerful of the Sith Lords only militarily. 

Vol isn't being considered in the quote, as he didn't exist as a character yet.  And Krayt probably isn't being considered in the text either seen as that particular cereal box quote came out before Krayt's feature in FOTJ.  

Shedding limitations is not an argument, it is an ideology. You can't just slap shedding limitations on it and be done with it. I don't care whether Vol was a character, or how it came before Krayt's feature. What then?

And Krayt is just holistically superior as well - the dark man who actually plagued Luke's dreams, as oppose to Caedus

If we are harping on holistics here, I'd say being the one powerful enough to change the current, and release Abeloth from her shackles is more impressive than anything FOTJ Krayt has done.

"I didn't ask you to kill anyone this time," Luke said, stopping beside her, on the side opposite Taalon.

"No, but it is the Jedi who make it necessary. Because of your nephew the Current has changed." Out of the corner of her eye, Abeloth caught Taalon's gaze-and held it. "Because of what Jacen Solo did, the Throne of Balance will be claimed by a usurper."

Furthermore, Krayt being the Dark Man was a retcon, meaning it wasn't the original intention to have Krayt as the Dark Man, which to me seems holistically inferior. And it doesn't get any points concerning authorial intent, which is primarily what you are appealing to.

EmperorCaedus wrote:
I don't see this as the case. Mentioning the forces of Darth Caedus a couple lines before doesn't make Caedus the most powerful of the Sith Lords militarily. 

Because power is a term that refers to more than just the Force,  a truth applicable for both military leaders and Sith Lords.  For this case, the context of the paragraph refers to a war with Caedus, a war not limited to defeating him in personal combat.  Of course we should consider not just what he can do magically, but also the artillery under his thumb.  Don't take my word for it, LFL recognised "most powerful" quotes in this light too.


Question : 


"Say if we were having a debate on who was the most powerful sith ever, and a random sourcebook states that Sidious is, would that make it absolute, and render the discussion over, or would is still only be a matter of opinion and still up for debate??

Leland Chee :


"There's always going to be room for interpretation and debate. Is the power being measured referring to his mastery over the dark side of the Force, the governmental powers he wields as Emperor, or some combination of both?"

No need to be so late to the party. 

Shedding limitations is not an argument, it is an ideology.

Indeed.  

An appropriate one at that.   

You can't just slap shedding limitations on it and be done with it. 

I don't see why not, unless you have a better way of handling the continuity?  

It just doesn't sit well that a tertiary source, bound to it's previous out-of-universe knowledge of the lore, would apply to characters that come after the fact.  For example, if we take "power" to only mean the Force, as you're doing, and then bind all quotes to the unwritten characters of the future,  Exar Kun would be powerful than Post Nathema Vitiate as per The Complete Star Wars  Encyclopaedia.  Not really fair given Vitiate wasn't even a concept until years later. 

I don't care whether Vol was a character, or how it came before Krayt's feature. What then?

Okay, well the question is whether you "don't care" because your ideology is best, the most intellectually honest way to handle continuity...  Or does it just suite the current argument that you, EmperorCaedus, is making in favour of Darth Caedus 

If we are harping on holistics here, I'd say being the one powerful enough to change the current, and release Abeloth from her shackles is more impressive than anything FOTJ Krayt has done.

This is apparently something all Ang Tii monks have to be wary of when Flow Walking.  Power level is inconsequential.   

Furthermore, Krayt being the Dark Man was a retcon, meaning it wasn't the original intention to have Krayt as the Dark Man, which to me seems holistically inferior. And it doesn't get any points concerning authorial intent, which is primarily what you are appealing to.

My ethos doesn't care about the opinions of any one author, but the body of works and what's being portrayed collectively by them.  And in this case,  Krayt is the dark man and Caedus is not.  Caedus was distracting NJO and the wider galaxy from the "true sith".  This is how the continuity played out in the end.   Whether it was always intended to be or a case of tweaking the story plan doesn't change that.

Sidious's accolades refer to his Empire 

Caedus is already stated to be superior to both. Krayt is also stated to be superior to Vol.

Caedus > Krayt > Vol

Probably Vol

Vol mind rapes.

Caedus

Any comparison under any methodology would favor Krayt. The only way to get around this basic fact is to have a bad methodology or change it on-the-fly.

Purely mechanically, what Krayt did in Beyond Shadows is objectively more impressive than Vol's encounter with Abeloth or Caedus' skirmishes with Luke/amped Jaina.

In terms of holistic portrayal/authorial intent it's not even close for reasons that are hopefully obvious to anyone familiar with the material.

Pick one, lose either way.

Vol

Vol destroys Krayt. 

Jacen's only hope is that they sense his power and take pity. Caedus' statement is dubious as hell and contradicted by him being stalemated at his apex by someone sub-the entire NJO council.

So either it's bunk or Vol grew up to FotJ. Either way Caedus loses.