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The Fallen WarriorLevel Four
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 22nd 2020, 9:24 pm
Epstien was better but he's pretty good, Maul died though the after-mentioned did not
Latham2000Level Three
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 23rd 2020, 7:41 am
Isv wrote:Epstien was better but he's pretty good, Maul died though the after-mentioned did not
..........
The lord of hungerLevel Two
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 23rd 2020, 4:29 pm
sors bandem was better
CuckedCurryLevel Four
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 25th 2020, 11:09 am
Based on what is SWR Maul ~ to prime canon Vader? Every source Vader is in depicts him as being far beyond Maul, which is corroborated by Maul’s own musings in the Rebels show 
IGLevel Four
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 25th 2020, 11:17 am
Superiority to Rebels Ahsoka (by a good margin) who was able to go head to head with Vader for an extended period.
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 25th 2020, 12:27 pm
CuckedCurry wrote:Based on what is SWR Maul ~ to prime canon Vader? Every source Vader is in depicts him as being far beyond Maul, which is corroborated by Maul’s own musings in the Rebels show
What sources depict suited Vader as far beyond Maul? All what Maul says in the show is that he can’t beat Vader alone, which isn’t mutually exclusive with Maul being able to give Vader a fight.
AlakanSpacewalker
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 25th 2020, 12:28 pm
Based on how casually he was destroyed by Old Ben and Kanan.
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 25th 2020, 1:42 pm
AlakanSpacewalker wrote:Based on how casually he was destroyed by Old Ben and Kanan.
Maul wasn’t even at full strength when he got three shotted by old Ben, and Kanan was amped when he tripped Maul.
- AlakanSpacewalker
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 25th 2020, 1:52 pm
This guy was able to survive on that trash planet (which’s name I can’t remember) for like 12 years while insane and with a spider body, survived Palpatine’s torture methods and was just fine, and even survived horizontal bisection; being in a desert for a few days shouldn’t mean anything to him especially when non Force Sensitive can do the same. So I ask you how weak was he when he fought old Ben? I know but Maul should be skilled enough not to get tripped by a padawan.
BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 25th 2020, 2:34 pm
I'm going to enjoy debunking this.IG (Exists) wrote:Superiority to Rebels Ahsoka (by a good margin) who was able to go head to head with Vader for an extended period.
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
January 25th 2020, 2:54 pm
AlakanSpacewalker wrote:This guy was able to survive on that trash planet (which’s name I can’t remember) for like 12 years while insane and with a spider body,
Now you're just reaching. That feat came at the expense of losing his sanity, weakening his body so much that he was visibly frail and partly missing a horn, and also weakening his power in the Force to the point that Mother Talzin had to use her Nightsister magiks to restore his powers. That planet is called Lotho Minor by the way.
AlakanSpacewalker wrote:survived Palpatine’s torture methods and was just fine,
When? Palpatine has tortured Maul many times and has moderated his torture plans to make sure Maul doesn't die, which isn't mutually exclusive with weakening Maul.
AlakanSpacewalker wrote:and even survived horizontal bisection;
Through his Dark Side knowledge, will power and even in that instance, surviving the horizontal bisection came at the expense of Maul going insane, losing many of his memories, becoming visibly physically frail and having his Force powers diminished.
AlakanSpacewalker wrote:being in a desert for a few days shouldn’t mean anything to him especially when non Force Sensitive can do the same.
We don't know how long he was wandering in the desert, but it clearly did mean something to him given that he was worried about the risk of dying in the desert because, hence he initially collapsed in the desert and said this:
Maul: Will it end here, like this? No... No!
Source -- Star Wars Rebels, Season, Episode 19: Twin Suns
The only thing that kept him going was his will power to find Kenobi, which isn't mutually exclusive with his strength being heavily depleted from the taxing walk in the deserts of Tatooine. In fact, the official Star Wars website also says that Maul's CGI character model was modified to show how much of a toll that Maul's body had taken:
"To demonstrate an arduous passage of time, the Darth Maul character model is not only scuffed up as if coated with sand and dust, but also has chunks taken out of its mechanical legs." -- StarWars.com: Twin Suns Trivia Gallery
It says to demonstrate an "arduous passage of time" (arduous meaning difficult, needing a lot of effort and energy), the animaters put in the time and effort to show Maul's body being weakened to the point his cybernetic legs had chunks falling out as a result of the long walk in the desert, so arguing otherwise is just denying what official material says. And if a human like me and you stranded ourselves in the deserts of Tatooine with the same conditions that Maul was in i.e. no food and water, for a few days, we'd suffer badly from starvation and dehydration, possibly even death.
AlakanSpacewalker wrote: So I ask you how weak was he when he fought old Ben?
The official SW site says that he had chunks falling out of his legs to "To demonstrate an arduous passage of time," which says a lot because Maul exerted so much energy and effort in searching for Kenobi that his legs started crumbling. Considering that Maul's cybernetic legs are tougher than his original biological legs, I would say that he was weakened to a considerable degree.
AlakanSpacewalker wrote:I know but Maul should be skilled enough not to get tripped by a padawan.
What's being a padawan got to do with anything? Padawan is just a title that has more to do with maturity and wisdom than power. And this says more about how tremendous Kanan was amped rather than any lack of skill on Maul's part because Kanan was uniquely empowered by the Force similar to how Rey was empowered by the Force itself when she defeated Kylo Ren:
Freddie Prinze Jr: ... We would outsell each other in the professional wrestling analogies, the best matches are the guys where both guys are trying to make the other guy look better than he's ever looked before, and that's what Maul and Kann are in that, I'm trying to make him look as evil and as awesome as possible, and he's trying to make look as good and awesome as possible as well, and that comes through obviously not just us, that's Dave and his direction and his design and his schemes, and not having this epic lightsaber fight between Maul and Kanan, but having it be this sort of Rey Force Awakens moment where Force takes over, not the Jedi. The Force takes over. Kanan vs. the Inquisitor, that's Kanan releasing his fear, releasing attachment, and sort of being like water like Bruce Lee would say. This is a Force overpowering moment because let's not joke, let's not bs ourselves. He's blind, his senses weren't like "Boom! OK we're good I can hear everything I can sense everything around me, everything is perfect in 16 seconds, nah, Superman can't do that. So... For that, that moment between the two of them, that's a Force explosion as I would describe it where Kanan is not in control of that, that's the Force dictating what's going to happen to this Jedi like it did with Rey in Force Awakens, when people go "Oh that's bullcrap! How can she beat him! She's not swinging the blade proficiently, she's swinging it like a psychopath and the Force explosion within her, which the Force needed to do to rebalance the universe which it does in every single movie, it's controlling- it's not controlling her, but it's motivating her moves, it's not protecting her, but it's helping her protect herself in a way that's beyond her, and that's what happened to Kanan in that moment.
Dave Filoni: Yeah exactly, like that's- I actually really like the way you just put that, with tieing into The Force Awakens.
Source -- First Order Transmissions #197: Honorary Member Freddie Prinze Jr. Star Wars Rebels Finale Interview
Kanan wasn't even in direct control of his actions, the Force itself deciding what's going to happen to Kanan, ergo Kanan was amped. The fact that Maul got tripped by an amped Kanan says nothing about Maul's skill, but says a lot about how tremendously amped Kanan was.
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
February 26th 2020, 2:46 pm
AlakanSpacewalker wrote:Way beyond his prime.
This is true, though not necessarily "way" past his prime. When Matt Martin (Lucasfilm storygroup member) was asked about how SWR Maul was compared to TCW Maul, Matt had this to say:
[url=https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11134/111345498/6452575-rip kbro.png][/url]Gabe Dawson: Hey Matt! Do you know if Maul's powers waned between TCW and Rebels? In TCW and SOD, he's fighting legends like Obi-Wan and Mace, but in Rebels he seems a lot more grounded. Kanan even seems to think he could beat Maul, despite Maul being trained by Sidious. Thanks!
Matt Martin: He's older and out of practise by the time of Rebels, for sure.
Matt Martin's answer is that SWR Maul is older and out of practice for sure, indicating that this Maul is a post-prime Maul in physicality and skill. We know that age is a factor in combat prowess in both Canon and Legends. Maul's voice actor, Sam Witwer has directly supported Matt Martin's remark on Maul's age:
Sam Witwer: You're talking like this guy's- he's now a contemporary of Alec Guinness's Obi-Wan at this point, so he would've aged- he's like 50, 60 years old at this point [...] These questions are fun to ask and the thing is that also with the Dark Side of the Force, you don't age as well, in fact the Emperor moisturizes every day, but you would never know it because of his Dark Side use.
Source ― Collider Jedi Council - Rogue One Teaser Trailer Review with Freddie Prinze Jr & Sam Witwer
Sam Witwer says that SWR Maul is a contemporary of Alec Guinness's Obi-Wan i.e. he's physically akin to 57 year old Ben Kenobi (who prematurely aged due to being exposed to two suns for 19 years) because Maul prematurely aged due to Dark Side degradation as a result of chronic use of the Dark Side, which is correct because Sith like Palpatine and Vader also suffered from this. We know that age has negatively impact Ben Kenobi in Canon as published sources confirm this:
"This duel was very different from their last. Obi-Wan was older and weaker while Vader was even stronger, fueled by hatred and thrist for revenge." — Jedi vs Sith (2016 edition).
“A generation later, Obi-Wan Kenobi would face Darth Vader once again. While Vader wanted revenge, Obi-Wan was focused on buying time for his friends— including Luke Skywalker. Their duel was careful and measured compared to their previous meeting. Obi-Wan's movements were slowed by age and lack of practice; Darth Vader— recalling the grievous injuries he suffered during their last encounter— fought his former Master with apprehension, while his cybernetic body reduced his actions. Ultimately, Obi-Wan deliberately dropped his defenses, and Darth Vader cut through him, but the Jedi Master mysteriously vanished into the Force.” — Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force (2018 edition).
- Latham2000Level Three
Re: How good is SWR Maul?
February 27th 2020, 6:06 am
The Witness wrote:Below Vader and Ahsoka
What makes you think he is below Ahsoka?
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