Ability & Character Statistics Programs v1.1

Introduction

Hello everyone. I'm excited to announce a project I've been working on for four months now with other members. A pervasive issue throughout Star Wars debating is comparing feats of different Force abilities. For example, how do you compare a Jedi using battle meditation on fifty thousand soldiers to a dark Jedi mind dominating seven opponents to a Sith telekinetically hurling a fifty ton cruiser? As it stands, we cannot really say. This dilemma commonly kills debates before they begin or excludes certain characters and feats from the debate floor despite being impressive. So, I devised a means to (hopefully) better objectively measure different Force abilities.

Justification

Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game is a d6 role-playing game active from 1987 to 1998. You are probably familiar with some of its supplementary sourcebooks, such as the Dark Empire Sourcebook (1993), Tales of the Jedi Companion (1996), and Jedi Academy Sourcebook (1996). These guides set the groundwork for a lot of the expanded universe. According to editor Bill Slavicsek, "Lucasfilm Licensing decided they wanted everything to match up, and our products became the reference materials for the other licensees." Notably, Licensing sent Timothy Zahn a box of every sourcebook and directed him to ensure his Thrawn Trilogy was consistent with them. Later, Wizards of the Coast launched a d20 role-playing game active from 2000 to 2010, which included popular guides like the Dark Side Sourcebook (2001), Power of the Jedi Sourcebook (2002), and the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide (2008). These sourcebooks were also rigorously reviewed by Lucasfilm Licensing.

There is nigh-unanimous agreement across the Star Wars debating community that gauging character power levels through analysis and debate of feats, accolades, and scaling yields a more accurate picture than just using the numbers ascribed on trading cards or roleplaying statistics. However, that does not mean that these vetted and published secondary canon (S-Canon) sources cannot be utilized in situations where we have no alternative methodology. Specifically, we currently have no way to compare the impressiveness of feats across different Force abilities or which Force abilities a character is disproportionately good or poor with. In line with how Holocron continuity database administrator Leland Chee uses roleplaying statistics "to see what type of Force powers a character may have" and as "a basis of comparison" "if we haven't determined the stats of a particular vehicle," I have created programs to tackle the issues highlighted in red above. Note that Licensing continuity policy states, "A book is going to overrule a stat if there is a contradiction," so anything here cannot be used in replace of actual quotes or feats showing or suggesting the opposite. 

DISCLAIMER: The programs found below are not forum policy. Members are unequivocally not obligated to use them if they do not want to, and members who do want to use them have no say if another member does not recognize its findings. This is just for people who want to use it with other people who want to use it.

Ability statistics

(The program does NOT support mobile devices. If you cannot view the program, go to your "Profile" -> "Preferences" -> Select "Yes" for "Always allow HTML.")

The ABILITY STATISTICS program allows you to directly compare the difficulty of feats across different Force abilities. The d6 role-playing game set difficulty values for twenty-one Force abilities, which the program visualizes. You can modify the conditions for any Force ability (e.g. amount of targets mind controlled, weight of object lifted, distance from target, etc.), and the program will adjust its difficulty values for the three Force spheres (alter, control, and sense) and overall. An 80 overall difficulty rating for both "control mind" and "telekinesis", given the conditions you set, means they would be equally difficult for a Force user to perform. However, the difficulty values are not linear; rather, they work quasi-exponentially. A feat with a 75 overall difficulty rating isn't "half" as difficult as a one with 150 difficulty, nor is a feat with a 15 overall difficulty necessarily close to a feat with 30 difficulty. Thus, you cannot extrapolate difficulty values beyond the statistical ranges provided (e.g. the difficulty rating for lifting a million metric ton object is simply unknown). Note that the difficulty values assume the feat is completed within roughly five seconds. Also, note that if you click a field and the options menu appears clipped to the side of the screen, scroll further up or down on the program then try again. 

Example A: "The dark Jedi reached out and shattered the minds of the three enemy soldiers that approached him. Utterly enslaved to his will, they were forced to turn around and fire on their fellow comrades."

This is a demonstration of "control mind." Using the ability statistics program, we can modify the "control mind" field to match this situation. Note that the "control mind" calculations "do not include the target's Force and mental resistance," so this and other similar Force abilities offer merely the minimum possible output to assess.



This feat has a 67 difficulty rating. Now, let's work with the "telekinesis" ability and see what yields approximately a 67.



Demonstrably, telepathically dominating three unwilling strangers within five seconds is roughly as difficult as throwing a hundred metric ton object (i.e. the maximum takeoff weight of a Boeing 757 airplane) across seventy meters of space within five seconds. Thus, we now have a frame of reference for the dark Jedi's power.

Example B: "The Jedi Master opened himself to the raging battle of ten thousand rebels and Imperials around him. Reaching out to both fleets, he amplified the resolve of his allies and the fear of his enemies. Soon, the tide of the battle turned."

This is a demonstration of "battle meditation." Using the ability statistics program, we can modify the "battle meditation" field to match this situation.



This feat has a 90 difficulty rating, meaning employing battle meditation on ten thousand individuals is more difficult than the feats from example A.

Note that the difficulty ratings assume a character is equally proficient in all abilities. However, this isn't always the case. Whether by way of biological disposition or concentrated training, some Force users are disproportionately proficient in specific abilities. While Bastila Shan, a legendary battle meditation prodigy, may be able to match and surpass the 90 difficulty rating for battle meditation, that does not necessarily mean she can replicate a 90 difficulty rating telekinetic feat. How do we factor in these specialized characters to the statistics? More importantly, how do we know which Force users are specialized ... and toward which abilities? Introducing ...

Character statistics

(The program does NOT support mobile devices. If you cannot view the program, go to your "Profile" -> "Preferences" -> Select "Yes" for "Always allow HTML.")

The d20 roleplaying game lists Force users' skill levels for many different Force abilities (e.g. Palpatine has a 16 in Force choke, 15 in control mind, 23 in farsight, etc.). These values are made relative to the character's overall power and not to be compared across Force users. Consequently, the CHARACTER STATISTICS program showcases a character's relative proficiency across multiple Force abilities. This was done by pre-setting an "anchor" Force ability -- generally Force push or enhance ability -- at 100%. All other Force abilities have then been turned in percentages relative to the "anchor", revealing roughly what Force abilities a Force user is uniquely gifted or poor in. For example, a 200% in affect mind indicates the character is uniquely and greatly accomplished in the ability, whereas a 50% suggests the opposite. If a Force user does not have any percentage next to a Force ability, that simply means no sourcebook has presented data either-way.

Again, let's look at two examples of how to apply the character statistics program correctly. 

Example A: Bastila Shan



Bastila's "anchor" Force ability is Force push, as indicated by it being 100%. Relative to Force power, she is disproportionately inept in many abilities. While having 90% or even 80% for abilities is not that relevant, her relative capabilities in Force grip, move object, battlemind, and farsight are significantly sub-par at 50%. However, her "inspire" and "influence" proficiency, the two central components to battle meditation, is radically high. This proves that Bastila's battle meditation feats are not translatable to other Force abilities, meaning Bastila's 90+ difficulty rating in battle meditation does not suggest that she can also telekinetically hurl a hundred metric ton object. 

Example B: Darth Malak



The character statistics program both aligns with established lore positions and introduces new dynamics. Malak's statistics, for example, reveal that he has unnaturally potent Force lightning and Force fear powers. Also, note that Malak has many abilities hovering around 130%. Rather than being disproportionately adept in all those abilities, it is instead more likely that Malak's Force push is just notably less refined than his Force grip, control mind, enhance ability, etc.

Below are the descriptions for all the Force abilities. Specifically note the comments for Force push, move object, enhance ability, battle mind, and Force defense.

Spoiler:

Note that the character's iteration is shown to the right of the name. Because some iterations are not the character's prime, take note of what source it lists. Also, some characters may have multiple different statistics for the same iteration (e.g. "Darth Vader | ANH | 1" and "Darth Vader | ANH | 2"). Most of these differences are minor and minimally affect extrapolating information. However, a significant discrepancy may mean that a Force user's skill in that specific Force ability cannot be reliably found. 

Forum usage

To use the ability statistics program or the character statistics program in a post, click  or respectively on the quick reply editor bar. This will automatically copy-and-paste text into your edit post box that will transform into the program once you hit publish. The programs cannot be preemptively viewed via preview mode.

As of v1.1, you can access a mobile-friendly version by clicking the following link and opening it with the Google Sheets app: CLICK

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to write them below. [hideedit]

This is really nice work. Will take some time to understand it, however just to clarify is it just using the d20 system, or combining multiple cards, games, etc? Sorry if you already answered this.

BreakofDawn wrote:This is really nice work. Will take some time to understand it, however just to clarify is it just using the d20 system, or combining multiple cards, games, etc? Sorry if you already answered this.

Thanks! v1.0 uses the d6 system for the ability statistics program and the pre-2007 d20 system for the character statistics program. For v2.0, I plan to incorporate other sources, especially the saga edition d20 system, to get information for Revan, Starkiller, Darth Plagueis, etc., but I need to look further into their mechanics.

This is sweet and will hopefully improve the overall complexity of SW debating, although it's gonna take a lot of getting used to.

First things first, huge super mega thanks for doing this. its looks  F U C K I N G amazing. 

Im actually famously bad at getting some else's meaning when reading something that they wrote, so im sorry if one of my questions have already been answered.

First and foremost, the the percentage part u mentioned simply means HOW easily one can perform said ability or how SKILLED they are with it? i assume it is the easiness, correct?

U guys are going to release information on other characters? 

So TPing three normal non force users (circumstances included) is about as HARD as lifting an airplane (circumstances included) or does just 'waste the same amount of force points'?

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:First things first, huge super mega thanks for doing this. its looks  F U C K I N G amazing. 

First and foremost, the the percentage part u mentioned simply means HOW easily one can perform said ability or how SKILLED they are with it? i assume it is the easiness, correct?

Thanks! And imagine two equally powerful Force users, but character A has a 100% in affect mind whereas character B has a 50% in affect mind. If both apply equal Force exertion to influence an opponent, character A will have far greater success. Character B will have to apply significantly greater Force exertion to match character A. This difference in difficulty can be due to character B being born without a propensity for the ability or having trained less than normal in the ability. Alternatively, if a character has a 200% in affect mind, that means they were either born with a great aptitude in the ability or have trained extensively to get above and beyond the norm in the ability. 

U guys are going to release information on other characters? 

Yes, I have plans to add another 70+ characters to the characters statistics program in the upcoming weeks. 

So TPing three normal non force users (circumstances included) is about as HARD as lifting an airplane (circumstances included) or does just 'waste the same amount of force points'?

Both I and the d6 roleplaying system equate the level of Force exertion needed to complete the feat with the difficult of performing the feat, so I would say both.

ah i see. its like two equally fast swimmers, but one has far better technique, or experience. or both are equally skilled and experienced, but one is leaner, or can move his arms at top speed for longer. and 200% is not only a talented, but also extremely skilled AND strong 'user' of said ability.

dude, 70 is a lot of characters. i assume they are mostly protags, or antags then, but mostly main ish ones.

ah ok ok. is there something 200% percent is that the literal best?

Great work Ant. I’ve been waiting for it for a long time. Hopefully it will help with SW debating and finally allow certain characters to get more respect.

In before Star Wars characters become the new superhero power level franchise.

@darthant66 could u answer my questions above?

something else i noticed is that mind fucking someone who is ur enemy is kind of a big deal, per the thingy there.

is this a reliable comparison of feats?

is 100% simply mean mastery of an ability, or is it literally just how it compares to his skill with other abilities? for example, Luke having 50% on something, and 200% on something else, would that mean he is 4 times more skilled at the second thing than the first?

Great stuff :3

The ability & character statistics programs are now mobile-friendly! Just click the following link and open it with the Google Sheets app: CLICK

Great effort and work.

---

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:something else i noticed is that mind fucking someone who is ur enemy is kind of a big deal, per the thingy there.

It definitely is.

is this a reliable comparison of feats?

This system is not something subjective or perception-driven in large part, but based on established RULES in the relevant sourcebooks which are UNIFORM across them and otherwise.


For example:-

Creating a series of Dopplegangers:







- is one of the most difficult applications of the Force.

To pull that off:

CONTROL difficulty = Very Difficult
SENSE difficulty = Very Difficult
ALTER difficulty = Heroic

Force powers required to execute the application successfully (Star Wars D6 Force powers): control pain; emptiness; hibernation trance; life detection; life sense; magnify senses; receptive telepathy; sense Force; telekinesis; projective telepath; control another's pain; transfer Force; affect mind; dim another's senses.

THAT is mind-numbing display of the 'command of the Force' on the part of Tenebrae on technical grounds, and he was not in good form for this battle.

Tenebrae had sufficient capacity to create a Force Storm (Wormhole) with that kind of power, if he really wanted to.

The aforementioned revelation also perfectly aligns with the fact that after Tenebrae's VOICE is bisected by the Hero of Tython and made useless:



Tenebrae's essence emerged from the bisected body (making itself visible) and proceeded to breach the Dark Temple in order to make its way to YAVIN 4; a clear display of manipulating the physical environment in this capacity.

THAT is another remarkable display of power from Tenebrae in such capacity given the fact that his powers had almost diminished at this point. Breaching the Dark Temple is a feat even some of the most powerful Force-users could not manage while actively trying; each wall was thick in the order of meters which is uncommon for a structure. The Dark Temple was a solid prison for both living and the dead.

As per the information provided in the D6 sourcebooks; creating a series of Dopplegangers is a FAR MORE challenging expression of power (numerous Force powers involved) than collapsing a building with Telekinesis. Tenebrae was capable of a far more complex feat (before destruction of his Voice) in comparison to collapsing a building which he managed even while being virtually depleted (after destruction of his Voice).

Only through combination of information in the Dark Empire Sourcebook and the Force Powers sourcebook, I was able to FIGURE OUT the above and make sense of it all.

---


To put the aforementioned into perspective, collapsing a building might be a big thing for Darth Vader (and audience would be like WOW WOW WOW - he da bomb) but this demonstration of power is ALMOST NOTHING to Tenebrae - he could manage as much even in this worst condition.

Again:

This system is not something subjective or perception-driven in large part, but based on established RULES in the relevant sourcebooks which are UNIFORM across them and otherwise.

However, one needs to understand the system and be careful in its use. This is not everybody's cup of tea.

Oh, wow this... Is actually pretty sweet! Annnnd perhaps the nerdiest thing I have ever seen