Darth Malak vs. Darth Vader

Both at base, Vader as of ROTJ.

Vader handily.

Malak

Malak annihilates.

vader sweeps even anakin could do it too

Vader slaughters

Vader.

The lord of hunger wrote:vader sweeps even anakin could do it too

Anakin >>> Vader lmao

Based off nothing but conjecture.

BreakofDawn wrote:Based off nothing but conjecture.

BoROTS Anakin < ROTJ Vader?

Yep.

BreakofDawn wrote:Except he's not.

You're confusing me right now.

In power, AOTC Anakin < pre-ESB Vader ~ ROTS Anakin < ESB Vader < ROTJ Vader << KFV. 

In skill, AOTC Anakin < ANH Vader << ESB Vader < ROTS Anakin << KFV.

BreakofDawn wrote:In power, AOTC Anakin < pre-ESB Vader ~ ROTS Anakin < ESB Vader < ROTJ Vader << KFV. 

In skill, AOTC Anakin < ANH Vader << ESB Vader < ROTS Anakin << KFV.

You realize that per G-Canon, Vader doesn't grow from ANH to ESB?

When was that ever said?

BreakofDawn wrote:When was that ever said?

"Luke is a 2, Vader is a 4", etc.

First, that was an unofficial idea they came up with to explain the writing process as they expanded the abilities of the Force. It wasn't a concrete statement, nor one issued by Lucas. It also has never been mentioned beyond this, so for all we know it came from Leigh Brackett and was later tossed out the window when Lucas began rewriting. It is also from the early stages of the planning, when accepted ideas were just as easily tossed aside (Lucas didn't even finalise most of the details until the final plot). Putting stock in this when it's contradicted by other sources isn't a good idea.

Second, that was contradicted by the film, novel, and the majority of the material that's come out since. There's also the radio drama pegging ESB Luke as more of a challenge to Vader than Ben.

Third, that says absolutely nothing about his ESB self. The actual quote is this:

The idea of Vader using telekinetic powers during his fight with Luke was created during story meetings. There was concern, however, that the audience might think back to the first film and wonder why Vader didn't use all his powers on Ben; but this was easily explained by the fact that Ben was probably stronger than Vader. George Lucas and Leigh Brackett also discussed the different levels of the Force; maybe Ben was a six, Vader was a four, Luke is now at level two.


It's talking about ANH, not ESB. There are about four other quotes I can pull up directly contradicting this, at least two of which were either from Lucas himself or from the official Star Wars Insider. Note that it also says "was" a four, in contrast to Luke's "is now" a level two. Different timeframes.

Him being far more formidable contradicts that. As for skill, I still don't get why Anakin is so far above him, but alright

BreakofDawn wrote:In power, AOTC Anakin < pre-ESB Vader ~ ROTS Anakin < ESB Vader < ROTJ Vader << KFV. 

BreakofDawn wrote:Based off nothing but conjecture.

Would you like to debate that?

Low key wanna see that TBH

Not really, you're too good of a debater for me to go with the usual half-arsed response style. Maybe once my essays are done.

That's fine, though I wouldn't say it's "conjecture" to put ROTS Anakin above Vader.

I wasn't talking about ROTS Anakin. I was talking about AOTC. I assumed IG was talking about that.