Revan vs Darish Vol

BoD I expect you to respond to at least one of our debates.

KingofBlades wrote:BoD I expect you to respond to at least one of our debates.

What debates? I have the attention span of about 2 posts so I'm really sorry if I stopped responding to anything. Wasn't intentional.

True. BisexualFan77 and BiOfDawn shall rule the forum together.

BreakofDawn wrote:

Quorian Debatist wrote:BoD has convinced me that Revan is garbage and that we don't need to know anything about Darron Volt; Revan being bad is reason enough for him to lose.

If you're trying to convince people of Revan winning, just know he sucks. Just let BoD convince you of that while sidestepping even pretending to know the first thing about DV. If Revan is bad then you must concede that DV wins.
Attempts to show that Revan wasn't ~ novel Vitiate.

Me: Attempts to show that novel Revan wasn't ~ novel Vitiate.
Also me: Apparently thinks Revan is garbage despite putting his prime just below Vaylin and the end of KOTET Outlander in raw power and on the end of KOTET Outlander's level in all-out and despite the fact that being below novel Vitiate is hardly something shameful. 

while sidestepping even pretending to know the first thing about DV.

Interesting that you assume that I know nothing about DV, @Quorian Debatist, despite the fact that I always ask for feats or outright refuse to comment in threads where I don't know much about the characters. But sure, whatever you say, darling.

Everytime Revan's name is mentioned anywhere on this forum you swoop in to try and stamp him down. It's not just this thread, but it's your complete disdain of Revan's name that illuminates this so brightly. You hold him so high that you feel the need to clear up any "misconceptions" that arise from him being mentioned. Obviously this isn't only relevant to you before you go all "whataboutblank" on me, but I'm responding strictly about this case right now so please stow the deflection in your defense.

HP Lovecraft wasn't even arguing that Revan ~ Vitiate but rather that he acquired - in his viewpoint - some stellar feats against Vitiate. In you come with your Revan alarm clock to come and take it away like BreakofSilver. Actually just didn't happen tbh... retconned I guess. Try to break it down like it never happened and then your defense when people point this out is to go "How could I treat Revan like garbage when I put him below the only people with any sort of scaling beyond the guys who Revan ragdolled en masse?" Good for you, you didn't put Arcann, Malgus, Scourge, and other undesirables above Revan. You must really hold him high. Imagine DarthAntsixtysix being a lot more active in every Vader thread on the site  Vader debates and then going "Well, I only put Sheev, Luke, and Yoda above ROTJ Vader from the OT Trilogy so my opinion of him is pretty good." Would you buy that? Should I buy what you say?



Well, I highly doubt you know anything about DV but that's besides the point. The point is almost everyone of your Revan posts are interchangeable with any Revan thread. If you didn't say "Vol wins" in one of your earlier posts then your argument with HP Lovecraft could have been inserted in any Revan thread without missing a beat. You're so stalwart in your offense against Revan that you feel you don't need to elucidate your audience about why the opposition comes out more impressive. It basically reads like this:

"I think Vol speaks for himself. Who could forget the thing he did with his uh... sith magic? But here's why everyone is wrong about Revan and why he might not actually be a force user...(?) Stick around while I tell you why Revan's name is synonymous with Below-Outlander. Also so is Vaylin, but her nickname is 'Above-Revan'."

I get it, you feel you need to clear the air in the threads. But these sorts of things work best in tandem with convincing takes from the opposite side. I would feel a whole lot more convinced if you were to explain why your reconciliation with Revan looking at fighting Vitiate corresponded with how Darish Vol came out looking better.

If these peons like HP don't understand the impressiveness of what Vol did, but think doing alright against Vitiate is the winning factor, then wouldn't it behoove you to make him understand the ins-and-outs of why he's wrong on both characters; as opposed to simply striking down his take on Revan being neato? He thinks Revan is great while Vol can't match up. Education is in order, no? Educate the masses BoD. Be their leader. Usher in a new dawn that knocks the sleep deprivation away from the Twinz.

Maybe I'm just picking out you in a forum full of that mindset, but I feel at the end of the day all you really did - if successful - is make people think Revan isn't as great as made out to be; but you never made anyone think Vol is good enough to beat him. Not a single reason.

Or to put it more simply:

Vol wins because that one feat Revan did wasn't the goodest. Vol feats? Nah we don't do that here.

@Quorian Debatist Fair critiques. I'm not in great form physically or mentally right now which is why I didn't give reasons for DV winning yet, so bear with me.

Darish Vol wins in my opinion because while it's true that he lacks the plethora of feats that Revan does, he's shown enough power to engage Abeloth of all beings in a TP battle and badly hurt her. He has also been compared to Luke by Abeloth, being said to have "much of (Skywalker's) power". While I don't think for a second that this TP will work against Revan considering Abeloth is a lot more unstable, the fact that he was able to engage her in a mental battle and hurt her indicates an impressive level of power that, frankly, I don't think Revan can quite match.

I also don't view SoR Revan's growth as being as massive as many other people do. Feel free to correct me, but all of SoR Revan's growth is pretty vague, being stated to have had his "power intensified" or having grown stronger. On its own, this makes sense. However, we also need to take into account that this is post Foundry Revan, who could be beaten by the act 2 protagonists (who aren't exactly close to novel Revan level). So far, I think it's pretty hard to draw contrasts between novel Revan and SoR Revan, considering that any growth from novel to SoR is pretty vague in itself and about 6 different characters (3 of whom have met Vitiate and all who could feel his presence on the moon) said that Revan would lose to him were he to be reawakened from his coma. 

Because of that, I don't believe that SoR Revan would necessarily perform much better against novel Vitiate than Revan Reborn, who was stomped by Vitiate once the latter released his full power and stopped underestimating Revan. I believe that managing to fight Abeloth in a telepathic battle and wound her as well as being compared to GM Luke is just simply more impressive than what Revan has done.

@BreakofDawn lmao.

I also don't view SoR Revan's growth as being as massive as many other people do. Feel free to correct me, but all of SoR Revan's growth is pretty vague, being stated to have had his "power intensified" or having grown stronger. On its own, this makes sense. However, we also need to take into account that this is post Foundry Revan, who could be beaten by the act 2 protagonists (who aren't exactly close to novel Revan level). So far, I think it's pretty hard to draw contrasts between novel Revan and SoR Revan, considering that any growth from novel to SoR is pretty vague in itself and about 6 different characters (3 of whom have met Vitiate and all who could feel his presence on the moon) said that Revan would lose to him were he to be reawakened from his coma. 

Because of that, I don't believe that SoR Revan would necessarily perform much better against novel Vitiate than Revan Reborn, who was stomped by Vitiate once the latter released his full power and stopped underestimating Revan. I believe that managing to fight Abeloth in a telepathic battle and wound her as well as being compared to GM Luke is just simply more impressive than what Revan has done.

So your argument seems to boil down to:
1.Novel Vitiate can stomp novel Revan

2. Revan's growth from the novel to SoR is vague and likely not very significant

Which leads you to say SoR Revan would only perform marginally better than novel revan did against novel Vitiate and would also subsequently get stomped by Novel Vitiate. However these are faulty ass premises

1. Novel Revan+Meetra+Scourge had roughly a 50/50 chance at defeating novel Vitiate. Since Meetra and Scourge are effortless one shot fodder to Revan as demonstrated by the whole Nyriss debacle, the idea that Revan is fodder to Vitiate with the odds of victory being as high as they are is ludicrous. In fact, Revan being anything other than comparable to Vitiate when you consider his odds of victory and his pitiful backup doesn't work. Your "Proof" for Vitiate being a stomp gap above Revan doesn't work either. Revan was attempting to resist a barrage of lightning stated to be "infinitely more powerful" than lightning that was capable of ashing a Meetra+++ being, whilst having less time to gather energy than Vitiate did. The fact that he only received 3rd degree burns demonstrates that He effectively contained most of the energy, demonstrating parity. I'd also like you to think about just what your contrary interpretation implies:

Vitiate only had a 50% chance of beating a person who is a stomp gap below him, with two people astronomically below said person acting as the person's backup.


2.Why on Earth would Revan's growth from the novel to SoR be insignificant. Per Kreia, using the force leads to(shocker) increased force power and neglecting force use does the opposite




.This is also supported by Lucas saying force users get weaker in force power after extended periods of non use.(unfortunately this source has been lost but the older users here can attest to its existence).  Revan spent 300 years locked in a TP war with an ever growing power in Vitiate. So its very likely that the amount of growth Revan experiences from the novel to SoR is immense. Foundry Revan's performance against the act 2 protags is in no way indicative of Revan's full power when you consider that he his mind was splitting into two separate, opposing personalities, which would logically drastically hinder his ability to use the force. We also have a quote confirming Revan being comparable to SWTOR Vitiate:

"Revan travels to a very iconic Yavin IV to go to battle and release the actual Emperor, one we thought who was defeated not long ago. The player is pulled into this struggle of two of the most powerful Force users, like ever, in the history of the Old Republic, if not beyond - Revan and the Emperor."

You've already acknowledged this quote implies parity before, however you've erroneously interpreted it as implying Revan is comparable to comatose Vitiate. Which is utterly laughable. We are both well aware of this scaling: SOR Revan>>>SOR HOT> Act 3 HOT>Act 3 Vitiate>>>Comatose Vitiate. So we both should be able to accept that Revan is leagues beyond comatose Vitiate. Considering the enormous superiority Revan has over the HoT, the only logical conclusion we can make is that the statement is referring to Vitiate at roughly full power.


So to look back at your argument:

1.Novel Vitiate can stomp novel Revan

Meme tier logic when you consider the odds of success Revan and his pitiful crew had in that fight.

2. Revan's growth from the novel to SoR is vague and likely not very significant

It's not really all that vague. Force users grow through conflict and Revan had a whopping 300 years of conflict. Couple that with a quote saying Revan~Swtor Vitiate, and your claim looks ridiculous

Because of that, I don't believe that SoR Revan would necessarily perform much better against novel Vitiate than Revan Reborn,

Yeah, no. SoR Revan would significantly outperform his novel incarnation by wrecking Novel Vitiate

Great post KoB.

@KingofBlades In the politest way possible: Piss off with the patronising crap. Not in a healthy state of mind to deal with it nor to deal with you inserting yourself into something that wasn't written to you.

Let's calm down @everyone.

Woah...

I dunno, probably Vol though.

Vol has a few feats. Nobody knows how powerful he is. Revan wins for now.

Darish vol for now

Revan

Revan without much trouble