Most abilities and powers

I had this weird, long talk with this guy the other day about two characters, and between them, who had the most abilities. As any two normal human beings would do, we never reached a conclusion. I felt that making a thread out of this would be fun, so here it is. Ill name some characters, and you guys can list them in order, from most to least. Some things that people should know- the master doesn't always know/has more abilities than his student, nor does the student always surpass the master in this area either. Lack of showings doesn't prove anything either, otherwise, Naga Sadow would know/have less abilities than even Kit Fisto for example. Ill be listing a good deal of them, so you dont have to list all of the, just 10 or so. Do what you want, pretty much lol

List-

TPM Sheev 

Dooku at his prime

Revan at his prime

Vitiate at his prime

Darth Bane at his prime

Darth Tenebrous

Darth Plagueis

Darth Gravid (info on the guy- set back the Banite sith order some decades by destroying a lot of their holocrons and information, which made me think that he might've been a very knowledgeable Sith Lord, as he had their full stock right at his disposal, alongside his studies on the light side, and stuff like that, before he destroyed it all, of course. According to Luceno, he was created as to not have Plagueis know pretty much everything, mostly ancient stuff, taken from this http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/James_Luceno_Facebook_QA_Recap_143276.asp).

Darth Vader

Freedon Nadd

Karness Muur

Darth Krayt

Wyyrlok 3rd

Luke Skywalker at his prime

Darth Caedus/Jacen Solo at his prime

Master Yoda

Odan Urr

If someone thinks I might be missing someone important, just tell me, and Ill add them.

In terms of sheer quantity of confirmed/probable powers known, probably Vitiate then Revan. Obviously factoring in quality of knowledge, the lists might change.

hmm, yeah, as far as confirmed and show powers, those two prolly take it alright. but probable powers? idk man. plagueis, dooku, and tenebrous are pretty scary in that area. hell, gravid might have a chance.

As far as "probability" goes, Vitiate spent over a thousand years purely studying and devising dark side abilities. Hard to top unless you're peak Palpatine.

and in about 80-90 years sheev was confirmed to know almost all of them, plus making new ones for himself, 'lol'

lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:and in about 80-90 years sheev was confirmed to know almost all of them, plus making new ones for himself, 'lol'

That's... kind of beside the point, isn't it? We're discussing hypothetical "probable" quantity of abilities. A "godlike avatar of the dark side" who spent a thousand years sitting on a throne studying and creating the dark side probably knows more than Dooku does, lol. Note Palpatine's statements don't even mean that he knows most of Valkorion's abilities -- just most of the overall galactic respiratory (which might also be a time-specific thing too, if knowledge was lost, which it was).

not really beside the point, but more of a counter i suppose, if anything lol. and thats cool and all, but odan urr, for example, did about the same thing for about 1000 years.

and lost knowledge isnt always lost in star wars. they had to be found one or another, after all. so no, palpatine's statement clearly talks about all powers. https://i.imgur.com/jUZIYbp.png albeit, it might be reference to jedi powers, but even then, it would still make him a match for vitiate nonetheless, if u take into account his sith knowledge as well.

Edit for clarity: 

If you disagree that Vitiate (with the aid of the Dread Masters and countless other Sith) studying the "deepest depths of the dark side" for over one-thousand years doesn't put him #1 for "plausible" most known abilities, then demonstrating that unprecedented knowledge many times over, what metric do you suggest?

There's nothing capping Odan Urr's knowledge, and he's not really actively diving into the "uncharted depths" of the dark side. 

As for the DE Palpatine quote, I'm not sure what you mean there. The quote isn't necessarily stretching across history, and if it is:

- You run into OOU interpretation issues (see: https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t1389-shedding-limitations-revisited[hideedit]).

- Emphasis on "nearly" for that quote. "Nearly" means there's powers Palpatine doesn't know, and it's already said JA Kun knows powers lost for thousands of years. Again, invoking the "probability"/speculatory nature of the thread, that's likely also true for Valkorion, especially considering most of his knowledge was lost.

“Known powers”. We don’t know if all of Vitiate’s shit is “known” Palpatine didn’t have Vitiate in BoTS, did he? And gravid’s loss too

Palpatine is confirmed to have studied all the greatest dark side lore, delved into previously unknown lore, gathered the works of knowledge from over a million worlds, studied the Force in all its guises, possessing a nearly unlimited number of powers, believed to have learned all known and unknown Jedi powers and to be capable creating new ones on a whim.

As to the argument that Vitiate had a longer time to study the Force, Palpatine had the collective knowledge bases of the Banites (1000 years), the Blackguard (1000 years), the Jedi Order (4000 years), and had agents in every corner of the galaxy gathering knowledge.

Speculation aside, the facts point to him being the most knowledgeable in terms of both quality and quantity.

thats why i only added his TPM incarnation lol its kinda obvious that he would be number 1 if it was him in ROTJ, DE, or maybe even ROTS

I think Cilghal can potentially be ranked as one of the characters with the highest amount of powers known. I’ll make a post if I can gather up some time.

sure. go right ahead. the more the better

Azronger wrote:Speculation aside, the facts point to him being the most knowledgeable in terms of both quality and quantity.

Sure, but this is TPM Palpatine.

exactly. i tried making this as even as possible, so if u have a complain on the list, just tell me.

1. Sheev - Banite+
2. Vitiate - Spent thousands of years purely on the dark side
3. Caedus - Banite, Jedi order that goes back millenniums, as well as studying with other various force based orders. 
4. Luke - Yoda +
5. Darth Plagueis - Banite 
6. Yoda - Jedi order that goes back millenniums
7. Darth Tenebrous - Banite

1. Sheev.
2. Valkorion.
3. Yoda.
4. Luke.
5. Plagueis.
6. Satele.
7. Qui-Gon.
8. Revan.
9. Dooku.

I should mention 6 to 9 are highly interchangeable. Couldn't be asked to rank them properly so just threw them in.

agreed with curry and ant lol gui gon wouldnt even be top 20 man lol

Vitiate probably tops the OP's list given his age and heavy study of the dark side, with a vast array of esoteric abilities including novel rituals (like a galaxy buster!). DE Sidious could've surpassed him in this area, but not TPM Sidious.

After that, it gets trickier. It may be easier to list the ones that aren't contenders: Dooku is unlikely to know more than TPM Sidious, Bane probably doesn't know more than Gravid, and I doubt Wyyrlok or Krayt would compete for the #2 spot. The late Banites were extremely knowledgable in specific fields, but they had lost a lot of knowledge post-Gravid, e.g. essence transfer, and really it takes Sidious's efforts post-RotS to finally make up that ground. So they may be really high in new techniques like midichlorian and time manipulation and obviously in overall power, but not in sheer quantity. Darth Gravid likely knew quite a lot, and given how much Bane alone collected it's possible by that point the Banites surpassed individual ancient Sith like Freedon Nadd.

Prime Revan has a pretty insanely wide array of powers, though it's possible Bane learned a lot of them at least from his Darth Revan days via the holocron, even if as of PoD he couldn't grasp most of them. He's honestly the likely #2 spot given that he's actually demonstrated a lot of these powers and absorbed knowledge from Vitiate, etc., so he has the time, aptitude, interest, showings, etc.

The Jedi are going to be limited here due to their moral restrictions, though on paper Yoda and Odan Urr should have a really large array of knowledge. Since they both likely at least studied the Sith holocrons to some degree, it is possible that they are above Freedon Nadd, etc. Luke has a huge array of random abilities and post-FotJ seems to have filled in the various powers that Caedus learned, but he hasn't had as much time to formally study things as some of the others on this list, so it's unclear.

TPM Sidious has likely spied in on most of the Jedi's stuff and has the peak of the Banite knowledge post-Gravid, though IDK if he'd be above Tenebrous given his insane intellect or Plagueis given his midichlorian manipulation - but the latter may not count for much since we're just talking about raw quantity of techniques and it doesn't seem like Tenebrous was interested in collecting random lists of powers.

So putting them in tiers in terms of just raw number:

Vitiate
Revan
TPM Sidious, Tenebrous, Plagueis
Yoda, Odan Urr, Gravid
Bane, Freedon Nadd, Luke Skywalker, Caedus
Karness Muur, Wyrlokk, Vader
Krayt

But of course "number of Force techniques" isn't the best metric for overall quality of knowledge.

Bane learned everything from Nadd's Holocron and then some. He should definitely be above him. Krayt and Wyyrlok are near the top too.

It's Sidious. Concede.

i always feel like wyyrlock, dooku, and vader are underrated on these. wyyrlok was stated as being more knowledgeable than even krayt, who had 120something years of experience and training. hell, his basic sith training lasted for like, 40 years, then he did nothing but get better, and wyyrlok is still above him. dooku was literally stated as being the most knowledgeable jedi of his time, then he had the biggest available sith library to learn from, and 12.5 years to do it. he should'nt rank lower than even plagueis tbh. and vader literally studied every single jedi holocron he could find, and spent 20 years learning all that sheev could teach him from the dark side, which was more than dooku, maul, and luke ever learned.