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lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three
Vader's standing
November 6th 2019, 11:52 pm
This is an opinion based thread, i suppose. Ive been wondering where people place suited Vader as far as power and skill goes.
Ive seen stuff that says "weaker than TPM Kenobi, and barely more skilled", to "should be Malgus/Bane level, by sheer Banite scaling, likely higher", to "Above Revan, equal to Gethzerion, Caedus level"
Since some of the statements regarding his power are incredibly variant (from "shell of his former self", all the way to "his powers grew considerably since they last met"), and have come up incoherently in almost all eras (the ANH through ROTJ novels all say he got stronger, but other comics and such, at about the same time, say that he is not as strong as he was), I dont personally consider 'amount' of sources as the right way to measure validity.
Ive seen stuff that says "weaker than TPM Kenobi, and barely more skilled", to "should be Malgus/Bane level, by sheer Banite scaling, likely higher", to "Above Revan, equal to Gethzerion, Caedus level"
Since some of the statements regarding his power are incredibly variant (from "shell of his former self", all the way to "his powers grew considerably since they last met"), and have come up incoherently in almost all eras (the ANH through ROTJ novels all say he got stronger, but other comics and such, at about the same time, say that he is not as strong as he was), I dont personally consider 'amount' of sources as the right way to measure validity.
DarthAnt66Moderator
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 12:08 am
I probably put Vader with high Dark Council members like Marr, but it's possible he's up with TPM Maul.
O-Siri
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 12:23 am
Been done to death, but I maintain that there are simply two completely different narratives in the works, one being that Vader grew more powerful over time and the other being that he's way past his best by ANH. I think everyone deep down knows this. It's no different than the two completely different takes on the General Grievous character from pre-RotS to TCW. Everyone acknowledges the intent and portrayal of the character is different and refrain from compositing feats and treat them as two separate characters. We should do the same with Vader. Problem is there are a lot of Dooku fans who like to bank on his low showings and apply it to all versions of Vader and by the same token a lot of Vader fans who like to bank on his "vastly pre-prime" showings and argue he grew tremendously by OT even though he has nothing to show for it, just a so so performance against a far past it Obi-Wan and rookie Luke.
SithSauceLevel One
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 4:52 am
I have him on Dooku's level, I think people massively underrate him
- SithSauceLevel One
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 4:59 am
As a Dooku fan myself, I dislike how overrated he is gottenO-Siri wrote:Been done to death, but I maintain that there are simply two completely different narratives in the works, one being that Vader grew more powerful over time and the other being that he's way past his best by ANH. I think everyone deep down knows this. It's no different than the two completely different takes on the General Grievous character from pre-RotS to TCW. Everyone acknowledges the intent and portrayal of the character is different and refrain from compositing feats and treat them as two separate characters. We should do the same with Vader. Problem is there are a lot of Dooku fans who like to bank on his low showings and apply it to all versions of Vader and by the same token a lot of Vader fans who like to bank on his "vastly pre-prime" showings and argue he grew tremendously by OT even though he has nothing to show for it, just a so so performance against a far past it Obi-Wan and rookie Luke.
- SithSauceLevel One
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 8:35 am
Note that sub TPM Kenobi thing is just a troll. Nobody here actually believes that
The Fallen WarriorLevel Four
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 8:37 am
Sub Sors Bandeem. he's below all PT Jedi which includes new training initiates like Sors
BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 9:44 am
Dooku level, give or take. For sabers, maybe Fisto level.
- The Fallen WarriorLevel Four
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 1:07 pm
What a scrub^
Dooku level lmao, dood dooku was the center of the universe and all stars revolved around him, Dooku could fight on par with Anakin and Obi wan together with ease and MATCH a rage amped YODA while he was exhausted twice, Dooku threw many 500 METER CRUISERS LIKE FOOTBALLS, the only reason dooku died is the guy he was fighting CAN ALTER REALITY. LMFAO Vader is nowhere near Dooku's plane of existence let alone near sors bandeem who was so powerful KFV feared him
-Revenge of the Sith Coloring Book k-12
Dooku level lmao, dood dooku was the center of the universe and all stars revolved around him, Dooku could fight on par with Anakin and Obi wan together with ease and MATCH a rage amped YODA while he was exhausted twice, Dooku threw many 500 METER CRUISERS LIKE FOOTBALLS, the only reason dooku died is the guy he was fighting CAN ALTER REALITY. LMFAO Vader is nowhere near Dooku's plane of existence let alone near sors bandeem who was so powerful KFV feared him
"Anakin was slightly afraid of all those in the jedi temple yet he slaughtered them like animals. Quick! Help Anakin decode the incoming separatists transmission and prepare attack on the next page!"
-Revenge of the Sith Coloring Book k-12
EmperorCaedusLevel Three
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 1:34 pm
Darth Vader as of ROTJ was definitely on par with Dooku, if not higher. This forum hates of Vader for some reason
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 1:34 pm
Ok, who let ISV near MyGod's acid farm?
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 2:58 pm
CuckedCurry wrote:Above Starkiller, sub Baras
- GuestGuest
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 4:00 pm
With TCW Maul and ROTS Kenobi in Force Power. Sub-TPM Maul in sabers.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Vader's standing
November 7th 2019, 6:21 pm
His physical limitations are a let down, but nonetheless strong in the Force. Prolly tier 8 overall but barely scratching it honestly. I struggle to justify putting him above tpm Maul.
Master AzrongerModerator
Re: Vader's standing
November 8th 2019, 4:13 am
I have the opinion that, as all the power of the Force user is in the spirit, Vader might not actually have gotten weaker at all in an overall sense, but his ability to meaningfully manifest that power in combat is hampered by his suit and occasionally his psychological problems. It would explain why he has so many low showings, yet people sense power above Kar Vastor and on par pre-suit Anakin emanating from him, and how he's able to toss the Emperor down the shaft.
_________________
- lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three
Re: Vader's standing
November 8th 2019, 8:16 am
yeah, something important to point is that lucas' early vision for vader being fodder compared to anakin was kinda thrown dow the drain, later on, it seems to me, at least. there is a good amount of quotes that by ANH, he was stronger than anakin, and some other quotes that say, like az pointed out, that his main problem was mental. sheev even said that if he could fix that, he could get anakin's original back.
IGLevel Four
Re: Vader's standing
November 8th 2019, 9:35 am
The idea that suit Vader is anywhere near KFV or even hindered MFV is so ludicrous it’s MyGod worthy.
- lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three
Re: Vader's standing
November 8th 2019, 9:38 am
its so ludicrous that obi wan talks about it in ANH...
- BreakofDawnLevel Seven
Re: Vader's standing
November 8th 2019, 9:41 am
ROTJ Vader might be stronger than base ROTS Anakin, but he's certainly not as strong or stronger than KFV, let alone MFV. Even setting aside the Force, either would murk him in sabers. No, Dooku for power level and Maul for saber level seems a safe place to peg him.
- lorenzo.r.2ndLevel Three
Re: Vader's standing
November 8th 2019, 9:43 am
he is factually stronger than dooku tho...
- DarthAnt66Moderator
Re: Vader's standing
November 8th 2019, 10:34 am
Vader may be more powerful than Dooku (highly unlikely), but that's not a "factual" position.
Latham2000Level Three
Re: Vader's standing
November 8th 2019, 11:09 am
As a duelist, he's slightly inferior to RotS Kenobi, SoD Maul, RotS and even more inferior to Anakin, Dooku, Mace, Yoda, Palpatine, but superior to TPM Maul and everyone else in the PT era.
As a Force user, he's moderately more powerful than Dooku.
As a Force user, he's moderately more powerful than Dooku.
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