How powerful is Darth Tenebrous?

Don’t really know much about Tenebrous and am curious to hear what some people’s takes on him are.

Below Dooku. I don't see Tenebrous putting up the same type of fight Dooku did on Geonosis against Yoda.

According to some people on the site, much more powerful than the likes of Dooku because he was the third Banite Sith and scales off Darth Plagueis. Not sure how that works but...

Hmmm 

i wanna say below plagueis. around TPM sidious, before he got the plagueis amp, personally. should make him below dooku level, tbh.

Maul level.

Valk level

KEK

Vastly above Revan

Blitzes the B Team

Revan can’t even shield himself from the after effects of a grenade, no way can he hang with any member of the B-team

ROFL. LMAO. LOL. no but seriously if you want to judge characters based on their low end feats, then the PT era is doomed.

When you get a grasp of reality, come back to me old bean

I guess Yoda struggles with lifting a moderately large pillar and RotS Anakin can't fight a few battle droids without his lightsaber.

Doesn’t work like that laddy

Let’s stay on topic.

Curry ragdolling.

DarthAnt66 wrote:Let’s stay on topic.

thoughts on the topic?

KingofBlades wrote:I guess Yoda struggles with lifting a moderately large pillar and RotS Anakin can't fight a few battle droids without his lightsaber.

Yoda was exhausted from fighting Dooku, and I don't recall the Anakin example.

His master scales from a huge line of Banites. Tenebrous, in turn, scales significantly beyond his master. As an apprentice, he found the Banite arts "simplistic". He's also stronger than Act 1 Plagueis at the very least, as well as Venamis. The fact that his master had influenced the Force on a galactic scale means Tenebrous could likewise do it as well, and with more effect if necessary.

Azronger wrote:

KingofBlades wrote:I guess Yoda struggles with lifting a moderately large pillar and RotS Anakin can't fight a few battle droids without his lightsaber.

Yoda was exhausted from fighting Dooku, and I don't recall the Anakin example.

I think he's talking about when Anakin was hanging from the lift shaft and the battle droids were aiming at him.

Banite scaling obviously plays a big factor in determining Tenebrous' strength. Even without any clear details, 29 Sith Lords who are each more powerful than the previous would intuitively yield a vast disparity between the first and last of the Sith, but we do have some individual instances to examine as well. Darth Gean was able to defeat Darth Gravid with her bare hands, while he was armed with a lightsaber and had more than twice the Force knowledge she did. Yes, Gean was severely injured and the fight was evidently close, but just think of how difficult beating someone with an instant-kill weapon while you yourself are unarmed really is, and then consider that Gravid had vastly greater experience, and understanding and knowledge of the Force than she did, which is usually the deciding factor in battles. Gean would have had no chance in melee, and he was probably the more skilled Force-wielder, so it can be reasonably inferred she overcame him through sheer raw power as she was outclassed in all other areas. Beating an opponent significantly more powerful and skilled than Darth Bane through sheer unrestrained might in the Force is by itself a tremendous accomplishment, but it's made all the more astonishing when Gravid's stewardship of the Sith Order was historically considered "brief" in comparison to the average Banite Master (30 years), which means Gean must have surpassed her mentor remarkably quickly, making her Force potential simply enormous. And per the Banite system, each consecutive Sith must have more potential than the last, so someone like Tenebrous's Master would be even more of a prodigy than Gean. Now, give him a lightsaber, full knowledge of the Banite archives, and completed training under Darth Ramage (himself a consummate Force scholar and a manipulator of time) - basically all the things Gean lacked when confronting Gravid - and it's probable Tenebrous's Master would outright slaughter Gravid. Then enter Tenebrous himself: even as a mere apprentice, he went "far beyond the simplistic Force studies imposed on him by his Master" and soon after killed his "doddering Master" in a duel with his "customary efficiency," and then expanded his Force abilities further for around 150 years. If he were to have a rematch with his Master in his prime, he would probably dominate the contest.

Aside from Banite scaling, Tenebrous can be scaled from early Darth Plagueis. During Chapter 1, Tenebrous runs fast enough that Plagueis has to call on the Force heavily to keep up, and he successfully contains a cathedral-sized explosion with a Force barrier while Plagueis is knocked to the ground by it. Further, Plagueis conceded that in a straight fight, Tenebrous would have defeated him, and considered Tenebrous' inferior, Darth Venamis, "a being of near-equal power" and deemed that the fight between them would have gone on "indefinitely" had he not changed tactics. Plagueis as of this point doesn't have much in the realm of explosive displays of power, but his physical feats are some of the best in the mythos, from almost moving faster than a droid capable of reacting to blaster fire was capable of perceiving, to rendering himself impervious to scratches and bites from a Klatoonian and an Aqualish by hardening his skin, or turning a Zabrak's chest to mush with a kick, and his technical skill with a lightsaber is almost flawless, so Tenebrous's superiority to him is a good gauge for his martial prowess if nothing else.

However, despite obviously being a Force-wielder of superlative potency, it's still a question how well Tenebrous compares to those who most immediately scale above him, namely prime Plagueis, Yoda, and RotS Sidious. In my opinion, not very well. According to Plagueis, Tenebrous had believed the ascendance of the dark side could not be influenced or hurried by the efforts of the Sith, yet Plagueis and Sidious ended up causing the dark side to ascend and saturate the galaxy through sheer force of will in 42 BBY - a feat that preceded gargantuan power growth for both. Tenebrous's inability to command midi-chlorians through sheer willpower also places him beneath an iteration of Plagueis who was far from his prime. By this token, I also believe him to be firmly below Valkorion as well. Overall, it's difficult to gauge exactly who he'd be comparable to, but I'd tentatively say Darth Tyranus is a good ballpark for him.

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um, if i may just say a few things here and there- for one, bane made the line at about 1000 BBY, i think. since there were about 30 people in it overall, up until sidious (so lets say TPM, when he became the master, which is like, 31 bby, i think), that makes its 969 years for over 30 sith lords, which leaves more or less 30 years for each lord over those 969 years. since most of them were found usually not as children anymore, and at the lowest we know, at like, 8 years old, and spent most of the time hiding and training, and rarely actually fighting, exp almost never comes into play here. now, "hur dur plagueis died and he was 100something" that just means that some other sith lords were lords for less time, such as bane, who was zannah's master for, i think, less than 20 years, meaning that his position as a lord in the order also lasted less than 20 years. something that backs this up is the fact that they werent warriors anymore. they trained and all that, which is good, but exp really shouldnt come into play in that gean/gravid fight, since gravid, i believe, had become a light sider, and was also going crazy, iirc. that should honestly make him weaker than gean, hence why she won. otherwise, how could she have possibly won? if he really was above her in all senses of the word, than how could she have won? which is why i like to think that he wasnt "sith lord gravid" when they fought, but more of a "force using lunatic with a very handy kitchen knife". 

now, while the gaps do exist, and i do believe that every lord should logically above their master, i dont think that anyone bar people like plagueis, sidious, and anakin could actually one shot bane, and the early banites. bane is much stronger than he gets credit for imo. people seem to think that because he was like the model T, he was 'slow', but then again, he is much newer and more advanced than any of the ancient sith, some of whom could still be a threat to even darth vader, and luke skywalker, given enough time. iirc, bane even moved a moon. that may just be the second best feat in the show, bar poof and that planet busting thingy.

i do agree he should scale to plagueis. plagueis hasnt really shown anything that makes him far head of tenebrous what so ever, whom he is likely a worse fighter than, and just barely a better force user, from my point view. also agree that while he might have a good chance being plagueis lvl (very good chance), TPM sheev with his boost is already on another lvl, and he got even stronger after 10 years up to rots. 

he should be around AOTC dooku lvl, imo. a worse duelist, but a better force user. smarter (ish), but not as experienced. faster (maybe, if anything), but not as strong. more learned in the dark side, but not enough focus on the light side. i think they even out quite well.

@Azronger Anakin notes in the RotS novel that he would have trouble dealing with super battle droids without his lightsaber on the IH. I'll try to find the quote.