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- Suspect InsightAdministrator
SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 19th 2019, 10:25 pm
THIS DEBATE HAS FINISHED. THE VICTOR, @"Michael the Demiurge", WILL ADVANCE TO THE NEXT ROUND.
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This thread is apart of a larger tournament between ten Suspect Insight members. You can read the other debates here:
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Arcann as of The Old Republic - Knights of the Eternal Throne. Darth Maul as of The Clone Wars - Shadow Conspiracy.
Each introduction can take a maximum of one week to create. Each subsequent post can take a maximum of two weeks to respond. There will be three posts per side. The first post, not including response or sourcing quotes, will have a maximum of 10,000 original characters, the second 17,500, and the third 25,000. Each debater will have a 2,500 finisher. The verdict will be decided by a panel of moderators.
This thread follows all default stipulations listed in the "Guidelines" thread. Additional rules are as follows:
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This thread is apart of a larger tournament between ten Suspect Insight members. You can read the other debates here:
- Preliminary round - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Darth Vader (Ethanion) [Finished]
- Preliminary round - Darth Krayt (Azronger) vs Darth Tyranus (ArkhamAsylum3) [Finished]
- Round one - Arcann (XSupremeSkillzX) vs Darth Maul (ILS) [Finished]
- Round one - Darth Caedus (DC77) vs Kyp Durron (SithArchaeologist) [Finished]
- Round one - Darth Krayt (Azronger) vs Revan (DarthBane77)
- Round one - Darth Tenebrous (The Ellimist) vs Exar Kun (Decaf Wizard) [Finished]
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Arcann as of The Old Republic - Knights of the Eternal Throne. Darth Maul as of The Clone Wars - Shadow Conspiracy.
Each introduction can take a maximum of one week to create. Each subsequent post can take a maximum of two weeks to respond. There will be three posts per side. The first post, not including response or sourcing quotes, will have a maximum of 10,000 original characters, the second 17,500, and the third 25,000. Each debater will have a 2,500 finisher. The verdict will be decided by a panel of moderators.
This thread follows all default stipulations listed in the "Guidelines" thread. Additional rules are as follows:
- Feats take precedent over directly and indisputably contradicted statements.
- Quotes are binding and have no expiration date unless directly or subtextually contradicted. For the latter, such a case must be made within the debate itself.
- All letter or number statistics ascribed to characters from C-Canon sources, including role-playing games and trading cards, are banned.
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- XSUPREMEXSKILLZLevel Two
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 20th 2019, 12:48 am
I look forward to the opener, ILS!
- GuestGuest
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 20th 2019, 10:13 am
Genuinely looking forward to this. It should be interdasking. ILS is a superior debater but Skillz has a better character. TAEP.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 20th 2019, 10:23 am
Ludicrous patience isn't the same as being better as a debater.
- LSDMB
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 20th 2019, 11:32 am
ILS is a more proven debater. Skillz hasn't engaged in CAVing to the degree ILS has, generally working on arguments and scaling a lot more from behind the scenes, so Skillz's skillz are more of an indeterminate factor.
- The Fallen WarriorLevel Four
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 20th 2019, 6:04 pm
ILS has the better character but the other guy has the SKILLZ
- The LostLevel Five
Opener
April 21st 2019, 3:04 pm
Maul’s Modus Operandi
Maul is the ultimate Sith Warrior, a killing machine. He “prefers to overwhelm his targets with rapid, agile attacks”, to close down on his opponents in contrast to Dooku who prefers to keep them at bay with Lightning and footwork. He enters a “trance-like state” that allows him to focus solely on lightsaber combat, and with his “utter devotion to Form VII’s physical focus” he tends to desire a “purely physical victory.”The Dark Side sourcebook summarises what it means to be a Sith Warrior - the “living embodiment of rage and savagery”.
―The Dark Side SourcebookThe Sith warrior combines combat mastery with the power of the dark side to create a living embodiment of rage and savagery. Physical conditioning and punishing discipline make the Sith warrior into a formidable opponent, and facility with the powers of the dark side add a wicked barb to an otherwise deadly weapon. The Sith warrior is dedicated to the conquest and subjugation of any obstacle to the Sith tradition. Throughout history, a single Sith warrior has usually been more than a match for most Jedi.
[...]
The way of the Sith warrior is a constant, unforgiving test of will and ability, honing each into a blade fearsome enough to cut through the heart of the hated Jedi Order. Every Sith warrior dreams of being the one who will destroy this ancient enemy of the Sith.
Where other Sith focus on plots and deceptions, the Sith warrior devotes himself to the art of violence.
[...]
The first Sith warrior identified as such is Darth Maul. By the time he is discovered, he has already made the transition to Sith Lord.
Maul is a devoted Juyo Master. The Jedi describe Form VII as giving yourself over to emotion, being swept up in the thrill of the fight. Mace Windu adds that his variation of Form VII is a state of mind that “leads through the penumbra of the Dark Side”, but in Maul’s case he is not merely being lead through the penumbra - he gives himself over to the dark side utterly, using the “Sith style” to enter a “trance-like state”, letting him “experience transcendance. In that moment, you are a perfect being and you cannot be beaten-you are at last embraced within Juyo.”
From the opening bell, Maul is going to be on Arcann like flies on a pile of s**t. He’s going to swarm him relentlessly until he is dead. Given Arcann’s own propensity as a warrior (see his fights with the Outlander, Vaylin, the KOTFE trailer, and so on), he is likely to meet him head-on, playing to Maul’s greatest strength from the onset.
The Banite Sith
The Banite Sith, culminating with Sidious, had the most advanced understanding of all aspects of the Force of any Force-using tradition in history, rivalling and in many ways surpassing the Jedi Order itself.―Revenge of the SithThe Sith spent a thousand years evolving by studying all aspects of the Force, remaking themselves, whereas the Jedi spent a thousand years training to refight the last war against the Sith.
The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.
While the Jedi-
The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.
Each Banite Sith passed along their knowledge and was more powerful than the last, in spite of any setbacks.
―The Official Star Wars Fact File #1"Never again would there be more than two Sith Lords at one time, but members of the order continued expanding their dark powers without the knowledge of the Jedi, waiting for the opportunity to seize control of the galaxy."
―Episode 1: The Phantom Menace Scrapbook"As they gained knowledge of the dark side of the Force, their powers increased with each generation."
―Force and Destiny"Ultimately, Bane's plan produced more powerful Sith Lords with each generation."
This is due to the fact that “many of the most important elements of Sith training” and “real knowledge” is passed from master to apprentice in unrecorded training sessions, opposed to learning from holocrons and other materials.
―Darth PlagueisSadly he could glean only so much from the texts, crystals, and holocrons stored in the library. Crucial knowledge had been lost during the brief mastery of Darth Gravid, and many of the most important elements of Sith training since had been passed from Masters to apprentices in sessions that had been left unrecorded.
―Darth PlagueisSidious remained silent for a long moment. "Am I to be equally distrustful of the lessons contained in Sith Holocrons?"
"Not distrustful," Plagueis said gravely. "But holocrons contain knowledge specific and idiosyncratic to each Sith who constructed them. Real knowledge is passed by Master to apprentice in sessions such as this, where nothing is codified or recorded-diluted-and thus it cannot be forgotten. There will come a time when you may wish to consult the holocrons of past Masters, but until then you would do better not to be influenced by them. You must discover the dark side in your own way, and perfect your power in your own fashion.
Sidious came to possess all of Plagueis’ secrets before he killed him, including the Sith Archives on Aborah.
―Darth PlagueisThe tour began in the outermost rooms, which were appointed with furnishings and objects of art of the highest quality, gathered from all sectors of the galaxy. But Plagueis was neither as acquisitive as a Neimoidian nor as ostentatious as a Hutt; and so the ornamented chambers quickly gave way to data-gathering rooms crowded with audio-vid receivers and HoloNet projectors; and then to galleries filled to overflowing with ancient documents and tomes, recorded on media ranging from tree trunk parchment through flimsiplast to storage crystal and holocron. The Muuns were said to abhor literature and to loathe keeping records of anything other than loan notices, actuarial tables, and legal writs, and yet Plagueis was guardian of the one of the finest libraries to be found anywhere outside Obroa-skai or the Jedi Temple on Coruscant. Here, neatly arranged and cataloged and stored in climate-controlled cases, was a collection of treatises and commentaries accumulated over centuries by the Sith and their often unwitting agents. Ancient histories of the Rakata and the Vjun; texts devoted to the Followers of Palawa, the Chatos Academy, and the Order of Dai Bendu; archives that had once belonged to House Malreaux; annals of the Sorcerers of Tund and of Queen Amanoa of Onderon; biological studies of the ysalimiri and vornskrs of Myrkr, and of the taozin of Va’art. Certain long-lived species, like the Wookiees, Hutts, Falleen, and Toydarians, were afforded galleries of their own.
Deeper in the mountain were laboratories where Plagueis’s real work took place. Confined to cages, stasis fields, bioreactors, and bacta tanks were life-forms brought to Muunilinst from across the galaxy—many from the galaxy’s most remote worlds. Some were creatures of instinct, and others were semisentient. Some were immediately recognizable to 11-4D; others resembled creatures concocted from borrowed parts. Some were newly birthed or hatched, and some looked as if they were being kept at death’s door. More than a few were the subjects of ongoing experiments in what seemed to be vivisection or interbreeding, and others were clearly in suspended animation. OneOne-FourDee noted that many of the animals wore remotes that linked them to biometric monitoring machines, while others were in the direct care of specialist droids. Elsewhere in the hollow of the mountain were sealed enclosures warmed by artificial light, aswirl with mixtures of rarefied gases and luxuriant with flora. And deeper still were test centers crammed with complex machines and glass-fronted cooling units devoted to the storage of chemical compounds, alkaloids derived from both plants and animals, blood and tissue samples, and bodily organs from a host of species.
Plagueis instructed 11-4D to wander about the galleries and laboratories on his own, and then report back to him.
Hours later the droid returned to say: “I recognize that you are involved in research related to species durability and hybridization. But I must confess to being unfamiliar with many of the examples of fauna and flora you have amassed, and few of the arcane documents in your library. Is the data available for upload?”
“Some portion of it,” Plagueis said. “The remainder will have to be scanned.”
“Then the task will require standard years, Magister.”
“I’m aware of that. While there is some urgency, we are in no rush.”
“I understand, sir. Is there specific data you wish me to assimilate first?”
From the breast pocket of his cloak, Plagueis withdrew a storage crystal. “Start with this. It is a history of the Sith.”
―Darth PlagueisExiting the turbolift, the first thing to catch Sidious’s eye was the library: rack after rack of texts, scrolls, disks, and holocrons—all the data he had been craving since his apprenticeship began. He ran his hands lovingly over the shelves but barely had time to revel in his excitement when 11-4D ushered him onto a descending ramp that led into what might have been a state-of-the-art medical research facility.
―Darth PlagueisStill in safekeeping on Aborah were texts and holocrons that recounted the deeds and abilities of Sith Masters who, so it was said and written, had been able to summon wind or rain or fracture the skies with conjured lightning. In their own words or those of their disciples, a few Dark Lords claimed to have had the ability to fly, become invisible, or transport themselves through space and time.
―Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth VaderAtop a pedestal alongside the chair sat the holocrons Sidious had asked his apprentice to search out and retrieve from the Jedi archives room. Pyramidal in shape, as opposed to the geodesic Jedi version, the holocrons were repositories of recorded knowledge, accessible only to those who were highly evolved in the use of the Force. Arcane writing inscribed on the holocrons Vader had fetched told Sidious that they had been recorded by Sith during the era of Darth Bane, some one thousand standard years earlier. Sidious didn't have to imagine the content of the devices, because his own Master, Darth Plagueis, had once allowed him access to the actual holocrons. The ones stored in the Temple archives room were nothing more than clever forgeries—Sith disinformation of a sort.
―The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and ExpandedChancellor Palpatine spent many years studying ancient Holocrons to learn the secrets of the Sith.
―Darth Plagueis“The Bith—Venamis...”
“Dispatched by Tenebrous to test me—to eliminate me had I failed. But Venamis has been a gift; essential in helping me unlock some of the deepest secrets of the Force. Every creature you have glimpsed or sensed here has been a similar blessing, as you will see when I lead you into the mysteries.”
―Chancellor Palpatine, Revenge of the Sith"Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep."
―Chancellor Palpatine, Revenge of the Sith“My mentor taught me everything about the Force, even the nature of the dark side.”
―Insider #88: Heritage of the SithSidious served for many decades as the apprentice of Darth Plagueis, learning diligently at the feet of his Master. Once he possessed all of Plagueis' secrets, he retired him.
Jedi Dooku
Now let’s look at Jedi Dooku. As of Y:DR, Yoda regards him as “the strongest, wisest and most learned in the ways of the Force”, “the Order’s most gifted apprentice”. He had an understanding of the Force far beyond his peers, would have been a master on par with Yoda had he stayed, and was revered as one of the greatest legends and losses of the Order.―Yoda: Dark Rendezvous"Hm." Yoda stirred again with his stick. "Then best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force?" He nodded. "Best of all, Dooku would be!" His eyes found the other Jedi, one by one: and one by one, they looked away. "Our greatest student!" Yoda's ears flexed, then dropped. "Our greatest failure."
―Yoda: Dark RendezvousOn the other side of the galaxy, the Order's most gifted apprentice reached out to tap a lightsaber with the toe of his boot. Count Dooku grimaced.
―Insider #113The belief that he was better than the other students only seemed to gain further validation when Dooku demonstrated an understanding of the Force far beyond that of his peers.
―Insider #113Dooku was a unique case in the history of the Jedi Order. Universally respected, he would have been a Master on a par with Yoda had he not abandoned the Order to join its greatest enemies.
―The Complete Star Wars EncyclopediaOne of the greatest legends of the Jedi Order, and one of its greatest losses, Dooku was a revered Jedi Master until he abandoned his commission, disillusioned with the direction of both the Jedi and the Republic they served.
Mace Windu and Yoda were the most powerful Jedi Masters to have ever walked the corridors of the Jedi Temple. They were considered to be on equal terms with Dooku as a duelist. Dooku was able to match Windu with a lightsaber, and was reckoned to be second only to Yoda.
―Star Wars Fact File 11Alongside Mace Windu, with whom he served on the Jedi Council, Yoda was the most respected and most powerful Master ever to have walked the corridors of the Jedi Temple.
―Insider #109Yoda took a keen interest in the young Dooku. He assisted in Dooku's combat training and as a result, the Padawan became especially proficient with a lightsaber. Only Masters Yoda and Mace Windu were considered to be on equal terms with him.
―The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection #25Only Mace himself ever mastered it, and it was reckoned that only Master Yoda and Dooku were ever able to match Windu with a lightsaber.
―The Official Star Wars Fact File #60Dooku had been reckoned one of the foremost duellists in the Jedi Order, second only to Master Yoda.
Dooku was one of the greatest sword masters the Order had ever produced - only eclipsed by Yoda and Windu in all of history.
―The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection #48Under Yoda's tutelage, Dooku became one of the greatest sword masters the Order had ever produced - eclipsed only by Mace Windu and Yoda himself.
―The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection #48Yoda taught many pupils throughout his years, including Dooku, who became one of the finest sword masters the Order ever produced - eclipsed only by Mace Windu and Yoda himself.
In the history of the Jedi Order, only Yoda and Dooku had ever overcame Windu in battle.
―Power of the Jedi SourcebookMaster Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective.
In other words, in the history of the Jedi Order, Yoda and Mace Windu were the most powerful Masters and the greatest duelists ever circa TPM, and Dooku was regarded as their peer, overcame Windu in duels, and his skill was only eclipsed by them in all of Jedi history - making Dooku the 3rd greatest Jedi in history. Remembering what Yoda had to say about Dooku (that he was the strongest, wisest and most learned student of the Jedi Order), the margins between 1st, 2nd and 3rd must be relatively small.
If you want to question the veracity of the “Fact” Files, read this starwars.com article… nowhere is the idea that the “Fact” Files contain “Facts” and “Information” (“facts provided or learned about something or someone.”) contradicted. Even if the information presented in Fact Files are derived from “in-universe sources”, that does not mean the information itself is not factual. Fact Files do not alter, invent or embellish.
https://www.starwars.com/news/the-official-star-wars-fact-files-return-to-our-galaxy
Darth Tyranus
Now that we understand how knowledgeable Dooku was of the Force, understand that Sidious’ Sith training “introduced Dooku to realms of power beyond his most spectacular fantasies”, honed, enhanced and made him more powerful in the Force, and made him a greater Sith Lord than he was a Jedi Master.―Revenge of the Sith novelizationDooku could not argue. Not only had the Dark Lord introduced Dooku to realms of power beyond his most spectacular fantasies, but Sidious was also a political manipulator so subtle that his abilities might be considered to dwarf even the power of the dark side itself.
―Attack of the Clones"Powerful you have become, Dooku. The dark side I sense in you."
―Attack of the Clones Junior NovelizationHe felt Dooku gathering power, and he bowed his head in shock and sorrow as he sensed the true source of the Count's increased ability.
―http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Wars-Attack-of-the-Clones.html"I have spent the last ten years learning to use the power of the Dark Side. It gives me infinitely greater power."
―Count Dooku - Dark Lord (Star Wars SAGA Series, 2002)Count Dooku is a disillusioned former Jedi Knight who lost faith in the Republic and abandoned the Jedi Order. Dooku spent ten years in seclusion honing his Force abilities - and - as a master of the old style of fencing - wields his scimitar-handled lightsaber with consummate grace.
―Revenge of the SithThis is Dooku, Darth Tyranus, Count of Serenno:
Once a great Jedi master, now an even greater Lord of the Sith, Dooku is a dark colossus bestriding the galaxy. Nemesis of the corrupt Republic, oriflamme of the principled Confederacy of Independent Systems, he is the very personification of shock and awe.
―http://www.starwars.com/count-dooku-biography-galleryNot even Dooku's Sith-enhanced powers were enough for him to defeat Yoda.
Sidious’ training also, specifically, increased Dooku’s skill as a duelist.
―The Official Figurine Collection
―The Official Star Wars Fact File #68His prowess was both exceptional and deadly, and many regarded him as one of the greatest warriors in the history of the Jedi Order. However, once Dooku left the Jedi Order to become an apprentice to the Sith Lord Darth Sidious, his skills became even more formidable.
―Unleashed CollectiblesFor ten long years, Count Dooku lived in hiding, honing his Jedi skills and crafting his vision of the galaxy's future.
Dooku was eclipsed by Windu in TPM, but as of Y:DR (shortly before RotS), Yoda believed that “perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal”, and his decided inferior on Vjun’s dark side nexus.
―Yoda: Dark RendezvousThe Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light.
Despite Mace being Dooku’s junior by 3 decades, being the greater natural prodigy of the two, and his (slight) superiority circa TPM, Dooku’s training at the age of 70 allowed him to offset both the initial gap between him and Mace, and, Mace’s own growth since TPM and through TCW - Yoda did not know if Mace was even his equal. All of that despite Dooku having trained tirelessly for a standard human lifetime as a Jedi under Yoda himself… at which point he surely would have met diminishing returns on any further power increases he sought.
Darth Sidious
How good of a duelist is Sidious? An ambidextrous master of all lightsaber forms, a master of every weapon and style in the universe, a practitioner of exotic and forbidden martial arts (including Echani which Plagueis’ Sun Guards were masters of). Sidious’ unique fighting style is “constantly changing”, “one in which you will never get the better of him”, “ambiguous”, “shrouded”, guided by a philosophy that seeks “to use everything you had available” to win.―The Clone Wars Episode GuideSidious can appear frail and slow, but the Sith Lord should not be underestimated - he is a master of all forms of lightsaber combat.
―Nick Gillard, the prequel stunt coordinator"Sidious is a master of every weapon and every style."
―Darth Sidious, Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force"I trained him in numerous exotic and forbidden martial arts, disciplined him constantly, and personally applied the Sith tattoos that were evidence of his complete dedication to the dark side."
―Darth Plagueis"Every weapon, manufactured by whatever species, has its own properties and peculiarities," Plagueis was saying, his own blade angled toward the ferrocrete floor of the battledome's fabricated cityscape, as if to light a fuse. "Range, penetrating power, refresh rate... In some instances your life might depend on your ability to focus on the weapon rather than the wielder. You must train yourself to identify a weapon instantly—whether it's a product of BlasTech or Merr-Sonn, Tenloss or Prax—so that you will know where to position yourself, and the several ways to best deflect a well-aimed bolt."
―The Official Star Wars WebsiteGrievous wasn't the only villain given his own unique lightsaber method. For Episode III Gillard also was tasked with designing an impressive style for a character fans saw fight only briefly (via Force lightning) in Return of the Jedi -- the Emperor.
―Nikki Gooley, the prequel makeup supervisor"It took a really long time for Nick (Gillard) to work out Sidious' fighting style, and he has a style that's constantly changing. His style is one in which you'll never get the better of him. It is ambiguous --- he'll fight less than you and draw you in; you're a sucker if you think you're going to better him."
―Nick Gillard"His character is so shrouded that his fighting style should be shrouded as well. The Emperor is deadly dangerous."
―The Last Command"I think we've got time for a few more exercises," Skywalker decided, turning back to face her. "That technique of yours is very interesting - Obi-Wan never taught me anything about using the tip of the lightsaber blade."
"The Emperor's philosophy was to use everything you had available," Mara said.
Darth Sidious was a tier 9 lightsaber duelist on Nick Gillard’s scale which he devised to rank the Prequel Trilogy duelists. At a ranking so high fights were determined by minutiae like fighting style differences and environmental circumstances… Sheev is “in a way” better than Yoda (another tier 9) because he uses the dark side, and is capable of besting “even the greatest Jedi warrior in lightsaber combat” (Yoda).
―The Official Star Wars WebsiteLevel nine, the highest level of lightsaber fighting, is occupied by a small number of capable sword masters, including Yoda and Darth Sidious. At so high a ranking, it comes down to individual fighting styles as well as the circumstances of the surroundings that make a difference.
―The Official Star Wars WebsiteIn the Jedi levels of lightsaber fighting, Obi-Wan is an eight, while Anakin, Yoda and Darth Sidious are nines.
―Nick Gillard"He's better than Yoda in a way because he has the extra power of the dark side.”
―Star Wars 101: Servants of the Dark SideOutwardly frail, Palpatine was in truth a cunning warrior capable of besting even the greatest Jedi warrior in lightsaber combat or by conjuring powerfully destructive Force lightning.
Sidious’ abilities are beyond anything we’ve experienced per Gillard, which would include Yoda and Dooku’s fight in AotC. Between the tiers there are Richter scale-esque differences in competency, and even within the tiers themselves there is a “huge difference” - on this point, Gillard outright states that placement within a tier is not based on “how well they fight”, but “how well they learned.”
―Nick Gillard"Sidious' abilities are beyond anything we've experienced."
―Nick Gillard"Yes, but it's like a Richter scale - an earthquake - and so the difference between seven and eight and eight and nine is enormous."
―Nick Gillard"Dooku & Maul are 8, but there is a huge difference inside the numbers themselves. It's not about how well they fight, it's about how well they learned."
TPM Darth Maul
So now that we know how advanced the Banite Sith’s training methods are, and how advanced Sidious’ training methods are - that is to say, unrivalled by anything else in all of galactic history by a country mile - just how thoroughly, with how much devotion did Sidious choose to train Maul from his infancy? “How well did Maul learn?”Maul has innumerable scars from duels with Sheev where the latter was willing to kill Maul if “he couldn’t stand against his master in a mere training exercise”.
―Darth Maul: Shadow ConspiracyMaul had fought his Master many times, starting when he was little more than a child and continuing through his apprenticeship. His body bore innumerable scars from those duels—lessons in the peril of being too slow or two quick, too weak or too distracted. During Maul’s apprenticeship he had always known that Sidious had been willing to kill him. The Sith had not survived their centuries of exile by being sentimental, and a student who couldn’t stand against his Master in a mere training exercise was worse than useless—he was a waste of valuable resources better used elsewhere. But Maul had never faced his Master when he was actually trying to kill him.
―The Clone Wars Campaign Guide“As a Sith apprentice, Maul trained against many foes, from combat droids and savage beasts to the toughest adversary of all―Darth Sidious himself.”
Maul was trained as “a blazing lightsaber aimed directly at the heart of the Jedi Order”, “a perfect Sith weapon”. To Plagueis he was “excellent”, “fearsome”, with “astounding” speed, his body as “lethal as his lightsaber”.
―The Dark Side Sourcebook"Where Darth Sidious was a strategist, his fearsome apprentice Darth Maul was a blazing lightsaber aimed directly at the heart of the Jedi Order. A Zabrak born on the world of lridonia, the child who would one day be known as Darth Maul was taken offworld and indoctrinated into the ways of the Dark Side, trained by Darth Sidious in not only Sith lore, but in the Jedi arts. Any display of fear on his part was punished with vicious retribution. Any hint of mercy in his character was rewarded with severe cruelty. One those rare occasions when he relaxed his guard, his master nearly killed him to remind him that a Sith can never afford a moment of rest. After years of this kind of treatment, Darth Maul was absolutely ruthless - a perfect Sith weapon. By the time he reached adolescence, Darth Maul was already a hardened, remorseless killer."
―Darth Plagueis"You have made him fearsome," Plagueis remarked without turning from the recording, as the athletic Zabrak cleaved a Colicoid Eradicator droid down the middle and whirled to cut two others in half. The yellow-eyed humanoid's hairless head bore a crown of small horns and geometrical patterns of black and red markings.
"Fearless, as well," Sidious said.
[...]
Plagueis spent a long moment observing the holorecording. The Zabrak's fists and legs were as lethal as his lightsaber, and his speed was astounding.
―Darth Plagueis (Maul: Lockdown)“He is a prideful one, the Zabrak, is he not? As excellent as he is in combat, it must be incredibly difficult for him to show restraint in not using the Force.”
Sheev has stated, three times, that Maul’s skill as a warrior is unmatched.
―Darth Sidious (Darth Maul: Saboteur)"Thus far your apprenticeship has been impeccable. You have never wavered in your intent, and you have executed your tasks flawlessly. Your skill as a sword master is peerless."
―Darth Sidious (Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter)Alone in his secret chambers, Darth Sidious meditated on this latest set of circumstances.
In many ways Darth Maul was an exemplary acolyte. His loyalty was unquestionable and unshakable; Sidious knew that, if he were to command it, Maul would sacrifice his life without a second’s hesitation. And his skills as a warrior were nonpareil.
―Darth Sidious (Episode I Journal: Darth Maul)“The battle began in the hangar. Darth Maul activated his double-ended lightsaber, a weapon he fashioned himself under my supervision. In his hands this weapon was flawless - or so I thought.”
He trained him to be “invincible”, with a lightsaber that is “part of” him no different than a limb.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul“This will be your weapon, Lord Maul. In order to serve me well, you must be invincible." Pointing to the hologram, he continued, "You must build the lightsaber yourself so that you know it intimately. It will be fitted for your hand, balanced for your stroke. You shall train with it until it is a part of you.”
His entire existence consisted of combat training so that he could be the best possible tool of Sheev’s will.
―Darth Maul: Shadow HunterMaul’s entire existence had consisted of training, of exercise and instruction. Early in his life, before his voice had deepened, Maul had learned the intricate movements and forms of the teräs käsi fighting style, the patterns of movements based on the hunting characteristics of various beasts throughout the galaxy: Charging Wampa, Rancor Rising, Dancing Dragonsnake, and many more. He had practiced gymnastics in environments ranging from zero-g to gravity fields twice that of Coruscant’s. He had mastered the intricate and dangerous use of the double-bladed lightsaber. And all for one purpose: to be the best possible tool of his master’s will.
Maul performs “ten thousand” attacks “a hundred times a day”. His lightsaber is an extension of his arm. He trains this obsessively, yet he already knows the movements so well he can fight without thought and has not made a single mistake in years.
―Episode I Journal: Darth MaulWhen I complete my basic exercises, I power up my double-bladed lightsaber and practice maneuvers. My body is as strong as durasteel and as fluid as water. I shift from one position of attack to another. I fall on one knee and slash my lightsaber as I imagine cleaving my victim cleanly. I roll away and grip my lightsaber with both hands for a vertical sweep. I leap and twist and come down, leading with my left shoulder. I deliver a death blow and leap away, somersaulting in the air. I perform ten thousand slashes, lunges, attacks.
My lightsaber is no longer a separate weapon, but part of my arm. I move in the time it would take my opponent to blink. I move in the time he would take to raise his weapon. He would only see the space where I had been. He would feel the sudden shock of the blow that would knock him to the floor.
I do these maneuvers a hundred times a day. I do them even though my body knows them intimately, even though I have not made a mistake or a misstep in years. I do them until the memory of the movement is part of the muscle itself. The goal of the Sith is to fight without thought.
Maul was trained mercilessly in all forms of the Sith arts, a master of all things foul, pushing his Force abilities to the extreme. He focused all his skills and energy on being the most highly trained Sith in the history of the order.
―Star Wars: Fandex Deluxe Edition"A deadly combatant and powerful Sith Lord, Maul spent his entire life in servitude to the dark side of the Force. Taken from his home at a very early age by Darth Sidious, Maul was trained mercilessly in all forms of the Sith arts, becoming the living embodiment of evil."
Per Dave Filoni, who was the main authority behind Maul’s return in TCW (working within Lucas’ framework), Maul is “well trained by Sidious in all types of Sith ways”, and is trained “in his likeness”.
―Dave Filoni, Director of The Clone Wars“Maul is a super dangerous threat because he’s been trained for years, he’s really adept, but he’s broken. So he’s kind of in the Vader-realm, and he’s a bit severed from what he knew, which was having a master, but he’s well trained by Sidious in all types of Sith ways, not the least of which is manipulation.”
―Dave Filoni, Director of The Clone Wars“The root of that though is that if he is a good apprentice to Sidious, Sidious would train him in his likeness really, and teach him what he knows. The Sith by their nature can’t be so overt. He is a deadly weapon because George needed him to be that in Phantom Menace, but he didn’t have the time to get more into who he is.”
Sidious trained Maul to “become strong in every way”.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul"While you might think that your life is harsh and unpleasant, and that I am sometimes cruel, there is a reason for you to endure such pain. The reason is that you must become strong in every way. You must learn to overcome pain. Someday, you might become stronger than I. You'd like that, wouldn't you? To be stronger than I?"
He is proof that the Sith are back and “deadlier than ever”
He is a weapon forged to ensure victory over the Jedi, pure evil with no personality beyond his devotion to Sheev. His singular goal was to defeat the Jedi.
―The Complete Star Wars EncyclopediaA weapon forged by the hateful energies of the dark side to ensure the victory of the Sith over the Jedi Order. A creature of pure evil, Maul had no personality beyond his ultimate devotion to his master, Darth Sidious. His goal was singular-to exact revenge upon the Jedi for the decimation of the Sith ranks.
No one knows how Darth Sidious came across his young and deadly apprentice. He was raised from a young age to be a weapon, tempered by harsh, abusive training to become an incredible warrior.
Maul was “an almost unstoppable weapon”, trained to “become stronger, faster and smarter than any adversary could anticipate.” His endurance was trained to its very limits.
I’ll reiterate here that “many of the most important elements of Sith training” and “real knowledge” is passed from master to apprentice in unrecorded training sessions, opposed to learning from holocrons and other materials.
In training Maul, Sheev followed the Banite tradition, and when Maul took Savage as his apprentice, he temporarily became a rival and broke the Rule of Two.
TCW Darth Maul
After being cut in half, Maul lived in destitute isolation on the junk world Lotho Minor, where for twelve years he focused a singular hatred for Obi-Wan Kenobi so powerful that it let him defy death and sustain his broken body. This anger drove him to insanity and increased his power.―Darth Maul (The Clone Wars Season 4 Episode 22: Revenge)“My hatred kept my spirit intact even though my body was not. Yet I was lost and became a rabid animal, and such is how you found me, brother, discarded.”
―Darth Maul To Obi-Wan Kenobi (The Clone Wars Season 4 Episode 22: Revenge)“You may have forgotten me, but I will never forget you. You cannot imagine the depths I would go to, to stay alive, fueled by my singular hatred of you.”
―Darth Maul Shadow ConspiracyMaul should have died that day, but his rage and hatred had allowed him to fight back against fate, to summon the Force and survive. He had fallen, but he had lived. Somehow he had survived, making way across the Outer Rim to the junk piles of Lotho Minor. There he had dwelled amid trash and madness remembering only that he’d been ruined and cheated.
―Darth Maul: Death SentenceThough Maul was horribly maimed in his battle with Kenobi, his unquenchable rage allowed him to survive, even as he was driven half-mad by pain and fury.
―The Clone Wars: The Sith HuntersIn the years following his defeat at the hands of Obi-Wan Kenobi, the rage that sustained Maul’s body also consumed his sanity.
―Tatsu & Obi-Wan Kenobi (The Clone Wars: The Sith Hunters)“I still don’t understand how that Sith Lord could even be alive… you cut him in half, Master Kenobi -- not to mention he fell down a reactor shaft.”
“Yes, Tatsu. Only one consumed by the Dark Side of the Force would cling to life so tenaciously. The Sith crave life above all else, Padawan… they wish to control it, dominate it, and thus cling to it with every fiber of their being. I believe Maul’s rage was so powerful, and his knowledge of the Dark Side so great, he simply refused to die…”
―Jedi Master Salmara (Darth Maul: Death Sentence)"Hatred is a hard thing to kill. Darth Maul is a being consumed by hatred. I imagine this hatred -- this rage -- fueled him and kept him alive... and somewhere, somehow, that rage grew. As hard as it is to comprehend, padawan, coming back from near death may have made the Sith Lord stronger... and even more dangerous.”
Between season 4 and season 5 of TCW, Savage Opress noted a significant increase in Maul’s power, attributed to his renewed purpose and vision.
―Savage Opress (The Clone Wars: Season 5 Episode 1: Revival) & (Darth Maul Shadow Conspiracy)“You have grown so powerful.”
―Darth Maul Shadow ConspiracySavage was right. Maul’s power was growing, because he had a purpose again, and a vision.
Obi-Wan notes that Maul is “stronger with the Force than he’d been” and “colder and more determined” than in TPM.
―Darth Maul Shadow Conspiracy“Obi-Wan didn’t know where the Sith had spent the long years since he’d tumbled down the shaft of the Theed generator core, and he couldn’t imagine what Maul had been doing. But whatever it was, Maul was stronger with the Force than he’d been - stronger, but also colder and more determined.”
Enduring Lotho Minor, training on Umbara, being restored (mentally and physically) by Talzin and training Savage all strengthened Maul, making him a more worthy vessel for the dark side.
―Darth Maul Shadow ConspiracyMaul had grown more powerful since the last time he'd been in Sidious's presence, before the Neimoidian invasion of Naboo had turned disastrous and Obi-Wan had bested him inside the Theed power core. His hermitage on Lotho Minor, his lessons on Umbara, his restoration by Mother Talzin, and his training of Savage had all strengthened him, made him a more worthy vessel for the dark side to fill with its power.
Maul’s training, understanding, depth of knowledge, skill, effectiveness - use any adjective you like - with the Force, as a lightsaber duelist, a martial artist and as an overall fighter is beyond Arcann. He is better in every way.
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 21st 2019, 3:14 pm
Solid opener, ILS.
- GuestGuest
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 21st 2019, 3:14 pm
Pretty good.
- DarthAnt66Moderator
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 21st 2019, 3:27 pm
Great post, @ILS.
- DarthSkywalker0
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 21st 2019, 4:11 pm
Very well sourced strong opener. @ILS
- Master AzrongerModerator
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 21st 2019, 10:42 pm
A very intriguing approach. I await further expansion of the ideas you presented with great enthusiasm.
- xoltholLevel Five
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 22nd 2019, 2:57 am
Good opening... Waiting to see Skillz answer.
- MasterCilghalLevel Three
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 23rd 2019, 6:00 am
Excellent opener. I liked that you also included Maul’s modus operandi.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 23rd 2019, 6:37 am
If Skillz plays the right card, he'll have this within the opener.
- Master AzrongerModerator
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 25th 2019, 1:54 am
IT'S COMING. IT CAN FEEL IT.
- XSUPREMEXSKILLZLevel Two
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 25th 2019, 2:19 am
Preemptive Counters
originally posted by ILS
From the opening bell, Maul is going to be on Arcann like flies on a pile of s**t. He’s going to swarm him relentlessly until he is dead. Given Arcann’s own propensity as a warrior (see his fights with the Outlander, Vaylin, the KOTFE trailer, and so on), he is likely to meet him head-on, playing to Maul’s greatest strength from the onset.
I agree, Arcann is likely to
(1):
(2):"Arcann's prodigious skill with the Force and training with both the Knights and Scions of Zakuul gives him a nearly unbeatable defense."
―Star Wars: The Old Republic
The above scans display Arcann using the force numerous times in conjunction with his lightsaber skills to overcome the HoTlander over the course of their fight, (the significance of which I will elaborate on shortly,) but I believe this is one of the primary reasons Arcann will actually win the fight beyond just a comparison of their sheer force power, in which Arcann is in vast excess of Maul, but because Arcann possesses a lightsaber and force defense so robust that, in conjunction with his offensive force usage, will keep Maul at bay indefinitely until he makes a mistake or Arcann simply overpowers him.
originally posted by ILS
snip about how TPM Yoda and Mace are stronger than any Jedi before them, and how Dooku is in their league and grew far more powerful as a Sith under Darth Sidious’ tutelage (the same guy that taught Maul nearly since birth)
I’m not exactly sure what you seek to prove with this elaborate connection between Maul and various PT era heavyweights...because he isn’t in their class. First and foremost, the Fact File quote you provided to indicate that Yoda and Windu are the most powerful jedi in history by TPM is in-universe, meaning it’s far more subject to scrutiny and interpretation than an out of universe quote, and certainly isn’t definitive proof that Windu and Yoda are more powerful than, say, Novel or even KOTOR Revan in TPM, much less that someone like Dooku or Maul scales off of him, (not that Arcann is tied to Revan or even Novel-SWTOR Vitiate for that matter). Regarding Dooku, I think it’s a bit misleading to imply that him growing more powerful under Sidious’ tutelage is indicative of how Maul must have achieved a similar level of superior growth and power. Dooku joined Sidious whilst already having been an immensely well-learned and old/wise Jedi Master, but he had never dabbled in the dark side to nearly the extent that the Banite archives had to offer, and in possession of an aptitude of the force far superior to that of Maul, along with an enormous base of knowledge that had already been developed as a Jedi, would allow him to rapidly develop his abilities upon being introduced to new dark side knowledge. Maul doesn’t have an overall depth of knowledge even approaching that of Dooku given the latter’s decades upon decades of learning and training in the jedi arts, which easily could have supplemented his tutelage under Sidious. Furthermore, we see through various quotes that (1)Dooku at the time he was recruited by Sidious was more powerful than TPM Maul, (2) Kenobi believes that Dooku more thoroughly overpowered him in AOTC than Maul did in TPM, and (3)Dooku was more or less better in every conceivable way than Maul:
(1):
(2):
"Count Dooku's fall has troubled us all," Obi-Wan acknowledged. "Now we have a great and powerful enemy." His thoughts turned to his battle with Dooku. He had never met such power in battle before. He had never come up against something that had completely overpowered him. Even meeting the Sith Lord who had killed Qui-Gon had not been the same.
--Legacy of the Jedi
3:
Just about any objective comparison between the two paints Dooku as vastly more impressive than Maul. Ultimately, however, it’s simply too loose a comparison to analyze characters in terms of an arbitrary force potential/knowledge/experience ratio, as this relationship is not consistent or static across all cases, but actually extremely inconsistent, volatile and dynamic (as shown by Kenobi, Anakin, Luke, and their relative potential to training ratios, along with incalculably many others). It’s much more productive to analyze what Maul actually accomplished and compare it to what Arcann actually accomplished. Arcann gets no bonus points in the end results for inheriting Valk-Senya genes and training, and neither should Maul for possessing Talzin genes and Sidious training.
HoTLanderkorion
To get a rough idea of the level Arcann is operating at circa mid-KOTFE, It’s important to note just how powerful the HoTlander is during this point in time. By the end of Act 1/start of Act 2 he (1) is already the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, above the likes of Barsen’thor and Satele Shan, and (2) from the end of Act 2 to the start of Act 3 goes from stalemating Lord Scourge (3) to being too powerful for Vitiate to TP in the heart of the Dark Temple after fighting through swarms of elite Imperial Guards, (4) whereas Scourge “cannot resist [Vitiate’s] direct influence” per his own admission:
1:
"We've lost one of our noblest Masters, but in his place stands a Jedi without equal." - Satele Shan (Act 1 ending)
"But he also forged our greatest weapon against the darkness." - Satele Shan (Act 1 ending)
"I'm glad to finally meet you in person. They say you're the greatest Jedi the order has seen in generations." - Tol Braga (Act II start)
"Warren was the order's greatest soldier in his day--now that role falls to you." - Tol Braga (start of Act II)
“You are the Jedi's finest.” – Lord Scourge. (Act 2)
“You are our greatest warrior… and our best hope." – Satele Shan. (Act 2)
2:
“After infiltrating the station, you fought your way to the Emperor’s throne room. But instead of your fellow Jedi, you found Lord Scourge–the Emperor’s Wrath–waiting for you. You fought Lord Scourge to a standstill until he broke off the battle for some reason. See what he has to say in the throne room of the Emperor’s fortress. -SWTOR Codex
3:
“I will fly us to the Emperor’s temple, but you must face him alone. No one else can resist his direct influence.” -Lord Scourge, End of Act 3
4:
“Realizing you are too powerful to be dominated by his twisted will, the Emperor has resorted to more conventional means to destroy you. -SWTOR Codex
“The Emperor lies beaten at your feet. For all his power, he was no match for you. Now you must decide his ultimate fate.” -SWTOR Codex
Keep in mind that Vitiate was “no match” for the Hero of Tython (despite being capable of mindraping Scourge with his direct influence) despite the fact that the Hero “dissipated his energy saving the weak”: in this case Vitiate is referring to the Hero giving him extra time to gather his energy while the Hero saved his apprentice in the midst of a monumentally powerful dark side nexus. Between the events of Act 2 and Act 3, Scourge marvels at the sheer power and potential that the Hero of Tython possesses, so much so that he believes had the Hero fully embraced and been trained in the dark side he would be the most powerful force user in Galactic History:
”Had you been instructed in the true way of the Force, the galaxy could not match your power. I will make sure that mistake does not happen again.” -Lord Scourge
What is important about this quote is that it falls in line with Scourge’s aspirations that the HoT’s son would become an unprecedented power in the galaxy, he is synonymously equating their potential to wield a never-before seen level of power:
”It is too late to turn you fully from the light...but should your children have a connection to the force, I will see them properly trained.”
“A Sith Lord of my blood...it’s an intriguing thought.”
“He would have power such as the galaxy has never seen.” -Lord Scourge and HoT
Even by the End of Act 3, we have indications that the Hero of Tython is implied to be every bit the prodigy that Darth Maul is and then some: a prophesied champion of light, wielding potential arguably unrivalled in Galactic History at that point, (at least for what is known by Scourge, which would include Revan, the Dread Masters, and hundreds of Dark Council members and other prodigies across centuries) destined to overcome the Galaxy-wiping threat that is Tenebrae. After this point, there is a comparable, if not greater time gap between the end of Act 3 and KOTFE Chapter 1 than the gap between Act 2 and Act 3, and as such the HoT experienced tremendous growth during this time, going toe to toe with galactic threats such as Soa, The Terror From Beyond, the Dread Masters, and Revan Reborn. After these events, he is named the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order and performs his most impressive feat yet during the Civil War on Ziost: Defeating Emperor Vitiate while his spirit was focused/honed in on one vessel, as opposed to dividing his attention and energies across multiple:
We know that the Emperor was only inhabiting one body while fighting the Hero of Tython because it is stated that Vitiate “limited his direct involvement” to the area around the Hero: the city of New Adasta and its immediate surroundings. The Hero of Tython’s objective stated by Lana is to ”get all of [Vitiate’s] pawns --every last soldier, Jedi, and Sith -- to stop their slaughter and chase you into the Heart of New Adasta.” the Hero then essentially leads them all to the electrostatic weapon (set to non-lethal levels) in the center of New Adasta, knocking them all unconscious sans Master Surro, Vitiate’s primary host. We see this play out in the above link. Ziost Vitiate is operating at ludicrous levels of power, as even at the start of Ziost Vitiate is able to mind dominate and possess hundreds, if not thousands of Sith and Imperial troops, continuously feeding on their energy to grow more powerful, along with the Sixth line (recognized as “an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi” in the SWTOR codex) and the entire Republic Fleet Saresh sends to Ziost (which was large enough to incite planet-wide conflict). Shortly after Vitiate gains the power to conjure hordes of monoliths on the side, which are described as follows:
”Given enough intellect, knowledge, fortitude and power, Sith alchemy can be used to achieve the seemingly impossible, such as transforming flesh and bone to form vicious Sithspawn such as the imposing Massassi and the unstoppable Terentatek. But Monoliths are something beyond Sithspawn: they are everlasting monstrosities built not on a foundation of living tissue but of dark side energy itself. Enduring and merciless and quite possibly unkillable, Monoliths plainly illustrate the immeasurable power of their creator and are best avoided at all costs.” -SWTOR Codex
So Vitiate was powerful enough (while multitasking) to conjure hordes of dark side monstrosities that transcend the alchemical efforts of all prior force users, thus displaying a superiority of intellect, knowledge, fortitude, and power to all prior Sith Lords/alchemists. This is further corroborated by the codex making it clear that monoliths ”plainly illustrate the immeasurable power” of Vitiate, and he only grew stronger in the events leading up to his defeat at the hands of the Hero of Tython. Shortly after these events and Vitiate’s consumption of Ziost, KOTFE rolls around and the Hero of Tython is dubbed Valkorion’s “most powerful opponent,” an emphatic accolade if applied to the most powerful opponents Valkorion has ever faced, including the likes of Revan Reborn, though this isn’t really necessary to cement the HoTlander’s status. The HoTlander undergoes an unquantifiable amount of growth between KOTFE Chapter 2 and 8, at which point he finally faces Arcann, Emperor of the Eternal Throne. As shown at the beginning of my post, Arcann completely overwhelms the Outlander, ragdolling him repeatedly and generally having the upper hand the entire fight. If the HoTlander rejects Valkorion’s assistance, Arcann casually force pulls the Outlander and impales him, as shown here:
Even if HoTlander accepts Valkorion’s boon of power, Arcann is able to defend against the ensuing lightning tsunami for an extended period of time and is relatively unphased upon being struck by it and sent plummeting hundreds if not thousands of feet to the ground. As I mentioned in my introduction, a much more nuanced analysis of the impressiveness of this feat will take place in a later post.
Recap
1. Arcann’s fighting style is perfectly suited to counter Maul’s, as his ability to chain powerful force attacks in combat combined with his impenetrable defense will serve as a perfect counter to Maul’s aggressive assault, mainly because Arcann has a sizeable power edge over Maul.
2. The HoTlander is an unprecedented prodigy with unrivalled force power in Scourge’s eyes, putting his potential on par with or above the likes of Revan, the Dread Masters, and any other force prodigy Scourge came across over the course of 3 centuries, and has feats and lines of scaling that arguably rival or exceed Maul’s to boot.
3. Arcann in the middle of KOTFE is capable of completely outmaneuvering and overpowering the HoTlander, and is able to block the energies of HoTlanderkorion for an extended period of time and tank the impact of the attack and subsequent fall with no visible injury.
You haven't laid out an argument yet for why I should even believe Maul to be on more than equal footing to the HoTlander, much less Arcann, so I eagerly await your response. I’m confident this is a good place to start for Arcann.
- AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 25th 2019, 2:49 am
ILS made me raise Maul with that post, but not as high as Arcann.
- GuestGuest
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 25th 2019, 3:47 pm
Great post.
- Haggis
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 25th 2019, 4:35 pm
An interesting and most entertaining debate so far, gentlemen.
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 25th 2019, 4:45 pm
ILS has his work cut out for him.
Amazing work Skillz.
Amazing work Skillz.
- dark-sith123
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 25th 2019, 7:10 pm
It's within the limit now? Ah, good. It's a great post.
- xoltholLevel Five
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
April 27th 2019, 6:45 am
Grreat Post from Skillz... Clearly this fight will be really interresting.
- The LostLevel Five
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
May 3rd 2019, 11:42 pm
Strength
Maul drags a dragon-slug’s tail and uses it to tie the creature into a knot with its own body, as it was trying to kill him.―Episode I Adventures 3: The Fury of Darth MaulBut the dragon-slug didn't pass. It slithered around the stalagmite, found Maul's concealed position, and opened its maw. Maul knew he would have to defend himself. He ran toward the creature, jumped over its back, and wrapped his arms around the end of its tail. As the dragon-slug twisted to bite his attacker, Maul dragged the dragon-slug's tail toward its stomach and tricked the creature into forming a loop. Before the dragon-slug realized what was happening, Maul pulled the tail around its looped body. The creature was instantly tangled by its own elongated form.
Maul left the writhing dragon-slug to untie itself and advanced through the cave.
Dragon slugs are giant creatures, over 20 meters long, towering over normal humanoids.
https://imgur.com/a/ibu2SV8
―Shadow Stalker
Maul kicks a “mammoth spider”/”giant spider” hard enough to injure it, then, while hanging from a ceiling and with one arm, yanks the spider from its position on the ceiling.
―Episode I Adventures 3: The Fury of Darth MaulMaul was considering whether to jump the chasm or scale the ceiling when he noticed a mammoth spider clinging to the cavern wall behind him.
The spider had nine long, powerful legs. It appeared to be asleep, with its thick, hair-covered abdomen slowly rising and falling with each breath. Still, Maul kept his eyes on it as he clambered up the chamber wall to the stalactites. Maul gripped a stalactite, then swung to grip another. The conical deposits were moist from dripping mineral water, and Maul was careful not to lose his grip on the slippery formations. He was halfway over the chasm when the giant spider suddenly scurried up the wall and across the vaulted ceiling. It was not sleeping after all. The spider was not even tired. The spider's mouth opened and closed, revealing many rows of sharp teeth. Darth Maul had no doubt the creature wanted him for dinner. He also knew if he let go of the stalactites he would fall into the chasm. As the spider crawled closer, Maul felt his fingers begin to lose their grip. When the spider was within range, Maul swung both of his legs forward and kicked the creature in the head.
The injured spider screeched and sprayed a thick web at Darth Maul. The Sith Lord released his right hand, grabbed the sprayed strand, and gave a sharp pull. The spider did not sever its connection to the web in time and suddenly found itself being torn from the ceiling by Maul's tug.
Maul let go of the strand and watched the spider plummet into the chasm.
Maul dominated a Vong warrior, choking it until its tendons began to give out, with blood streaming from its eyes and mouth, without actively drawing on the Force.
―Maul: LockdownClose enough now that he could smell the corpse-stink pouring off it like rotten meat, he fell into a reflexive series of moves. Both hands shot out and grabbed the creature by its throat, hoisting it up over his head and squeezing until he felt the deep tendons of its neck beginning to give and weaken in his grip. There was a wet, muffled click from somewhere inside the thing’s chest and a sudden glut of warm, thick, sticky fluid began spurting up from its throat.
Blood.
Jet black.
The sight of it gave Maul no satisfaction, only the vaguely annoying realization that it never should have taken him this long to turn the battle to his advantage. Still, ending his opponent’s life quickly would restore a certain necessary balance to the encounter—if not honor, at least vindication. He tightened his grip, and the screaming sound got louder, becoming a broken, birdlike squawk. More blood leapt up, inky black and viscous, and started pouring from its mouth and eye sockets.
Enough.
Executing a perfectly balanced spin, Maul swung the creature around and slammed it to the floor with a sharp clang, connecting hard enough that he felt the steel plates reverberate under his feet. The thing’s head drooped on its broken neck, lolling sideways to expose the throbbing vessels beneath its gray flesh.
Maul grew stronger from that fight and others like it.
―Maul: Lockdown“Jagannath,” he said. “You’re looking surprisingly well, all things considered.”
Maul said nothing. In the twelve hours since his last fight, he’d recovered almost completely from the wounds that the Wampa had inflicted on him. His face still bore the blood-encrusted slash marks from its claws, but he’d regained full use of his arm, and his strength actually seemed to have intensified in response to the attack, like an organism that had thrived from being pruned down close to the taproot.
Maul decapitated a Varactyl in one jerk without actively using the Force.
―Maul: Lockdown“A varactyl?”
“Intriguing creatures, have you seen them, brother? Fifteen meters long.” The Chadra-Fan grinned. “You see, it’s a fascinating thing, the way the sinuses in their armor-plated skulls are designed to funnel and amplify sound, to create a certain specific type of noise when the air passes through—”
Maul nodded. “It’s done.”
[...]
“What if—” he began. But that was as far as he got before the hatchway to his immediate right exploded off its hinges.
Strabo leapt back with a cry of surprise. What he saw defied all expectation—an orange-skinned Deathspine varactyl, four meters high, came bursting forth into the concourse, its tail thrashing and whipping the air. The bird-lizard was shrieking and hooting wildly, slamming its body against the far wall, and immediately Strabo understood why. The Zabrak, Jagannath himself, was sitting astride its back, clutching its beaked face with both hands, jerking it right and left.
[...]
Directly in front of him, the bird-lizard bucked and swung itself 180 degrees around, braying all the louder as it tried to throw Jagannath from his perch. Its hind leg came forward, hooking one clawlike foot into the Zabrak’s torso and slashing his skin. But the red-skinned inmate hung on with a kind of brute-force determination that Strabo had never seen before in any species.
[...]
A blur of activity snapped Strabo’s attention forward again. Jagannath had managed to grip the varactyl by its crest and wrenched its armor-plated skull hard to the right, slamming it directly into one of the steam pipes along the far wall.
The creature shrieked again—a wailing mournful cry that turned out to be its swan song. The steam pipe burst apart, shooting a thick, scalding blast of focused heat directly into the thing’s face, boiling its flesh and scalding its eyeballs in their sockets. The effect was immediate. Strabo’s nostrils stung with the stench of burned feathers and flash-fried skin as the varactyl’s flesh peeled back to expose the thickly plated vault of its cranium. Its body collapsed with the Zabrak still astride it.
[...]
In front of him, Jagannath had taken hold of the varactyl’s boiled skull. With a final jerk, he snapped it completely free from its neck and yanked it upward. The scorched gray rag of the thing’s tongue tumbled free and dangled from its mandible like a limp rag of surrender.
Silence fell through the hallway. Dismounting, the Zabrak hoisted its massive skull up over his head, the inmates and even some of the guards taking a step back as he carried the grisly trophy forward down the length of the concourse.
Varactyls are 15 meters long, weighing 1150 kilograms, with armor-plated skulls. The force needed to rip the skull off of a human being is extremely superhuman, so doing so to a varactyl without Force enhancement denotes freakish strength.
Maul shatters Mighella’s lightsaber-proof sword.
Maul destroys durasteel droids with his body as lethally as with his lightsaber.
―Darth PlagueisJust arrived on the Hunters' Moon, Sidious studied Plagueis as the Sith Lord and his droid, 11-4D, viewed a holorecording of a black-robed Zabrak assassin making short work of combat automata in his home on Coruscant, some hovering, some advancing on two legs, others on treads, and all firing blasters.
[...]
Plagueis spent a long moment observing the holorecording. The Zabrak's fists and legs were as lethal as his lightsaber, and his speed was astounding.
Over a vast distance, Maul threw a spear with such power it killed a clone trooper before Obi-Wan could react.
Maul effortlessly deflected Savage Opress’ blows.
https://imgur.com/HIAo1nv
―Darth Maul Shadow ConspiracySavage’s saber howled as he flung himself at his brother in a brutal attack. The assault would have ended with most opponents cut in two and lying on the deck in lifeless halves. But Darth Maul was not most opponents. He parried Savage’s slash effortlessly, their red saber blades sparking and chattering where they came in contact with each other. Then Maul twitched his wrists and spun Savage’s saber out of his hands. A moment later Savage was lying on the deck, pinned by Maul’s metal foot.
Savage has thrown Dooku through the air with a strike, and has thrown Obi-Wan and Anakin around like ragdolls. He performed these feats before his fight with Maul, at a time where Dooku could feel Savage’s strength growing daily.
―Count Dooku (The Clone Wars)“I can sense him, Grievous.
That creature, Savage Opress, is growing stronger and stronger as each day passes…
Maul and Savage together were able to strain Sheev by pressing their blades down on his.
―Darth Maul: Shadow ConspiracyMaul stared up at his Master’s face. He saw the strain as Sidious called upon the Force to keep the brothers at bay. But there was something else there too – a terrible pleasure. Sidious began to grin.
Yoda, Sheev’s peer, casually carries a giant artillery gun from village to village. Yoda shows no strain doing this. If Maul provided even 20-40% of the strength needed to strain a Yoda-tier being it means he is packing literally tons of strength.
https://imgur.com/a/T34LRCi
Speed
Maul travels through Lommite Limited’s headquarters, avoiding security patrols, skylights and motion detection lasers, with such speed any trace of him caught on a security camera would need to be put in slow motion in order to even see him.―Darth Maul: SaboteurMaul waited until the moon was low in the sky before he went to Lommite Limited's headquarters at the base of the escarpment. The incidents of sabotage had caused the complex of buildings to be placed on high alert. Armed sentries, some accompanied by leashed beasts, patrolled, and powerful illuminators cast circles of brilliant light over the spacious grounds. A five-meter-high electrified stun fence encompassed everything.
Maul spent an hour studying the movements of the sentries, the periodic sweeps of the illuminators, the towering fence, and the motion detector lasers that gridded the broad lawn beyond.
[...]
When he was satisfied that he had committed the results of his reconnaissance to memory, he shrugged out of his cloak and leapt straight up over the fence, landing precisely where some of the rocks he had tossed rested. Then he sprang to a series of other sites that ultimately carried him to the wall of the principal building, moving with such speed the entire time that whatever holorecordings were being made wouldn't show him unless they were played in slow motion.
He reached one of the doors and found it locked, so he began to work his way around the building, testing other doors and windows, all of which were similarly secured.
Maul moves faster than a droid’s photoreceptor can follow.
―Episode I Adventures 3: The Fury of Darth MaulThe droid soared toward the ceiling but regained control before impact and flew back toward the Sith. Maul leaped aside, moving faster than the droid's photoreceptor could follow.
Telekinesis
Maul at 15 could have loosed a Force scream that would “bring the [Orsis] barracks down around him.”―RestraintMerely imagining it set his fingers trembling, and abruptly the tool slipped from its tenuous hold in the socket and stabbed deeply into the palm of his opposite hand, opening a small wound and bursting the dam of his pent-up emotion. Maul’s clenched right hand slammed down on the table, shattering its surface, and the vibroblade took flight, nearly impaling itself in his head. Straightening, he bared his filed teeth and tensed his body, close to loosing a scream that would have brought the barracks down around him.
The barracks has 500 students along with staff. The students have high-grade accommodation, they share rooms of two, the barracks have stations for mechanical work, and the instructor’s quarters has a fireplace - a huge facility.
―The Wrath of Darth Maul"Right now." Trezza said, "we have just over five hundred cadets
[...]
Maul opened the door and stepped into the office. Trezza was seated behind his massive desk. Kilindi stood before him. And Meltch Krakko stood on the far side of the room, near an open fireplace.
―RestraintHe was picking up the pieces of his short-lived fit—collecting the knife and the far-flung tools—when two of his fellow trainees entered the barracks.
The taller and older of the pair, Kilindi Matako, scanned the room, taking in the dismantled vibroblade, the table’s crazed top, and the fresh blood dripping from Maul’s punctured left hand.
Maul notes that “most of the [500] cadets would already be asleep in the barracks,” and he goes from room to room killing them, which suggests he isn’t going from building to building - the barracks is one large building.
―The Wrath of Darth MaulHe moved quickly and quietly through the courtyards and buildings. First, he killed the Academy's sentries, and then the security guards posted outside the training rooms and barracks. He used the Force when it was most efficient, and his bare hands whenever it pleased him. Knowing that most of the cadets would already be asleep in the barracks, he went noiselessly from one darkened room to the next, leaving a trail of death.
He entered the room shared by Kilindi and Daleen. Kilindi's bunk was empty. Daleen's wasn't. Daleen was snoring lightly. A moment later, her life had ended, and Maul was moving out the door. He took no comfort from Kilindi's absence. He knew he would find her.
When he arrived upon the sleeping forms of the Rodians Hubnutz and Fretch, he woke them before he broke their necks.
After the "Gora", a week-long survival challenge he completed just after the barracks feat, “He felt he was one with the dark side of the Force.”
―The Wrath of Darth MaulNight had long fallen by the time be reached the Academy's perimeter, and he felt very different from the cadet he had been when he left to begin the Gora. Now, his education seemed ages behind him. He felt he was one with the dark side of the Force.
Over two years, Maul’s power in the Force grew - he sensed his control over his Force powers were “close to perfect."
―The Wrath of Darth MaulMaul moved with Sidious to Coruscant, where Sidious had long kept a secret lair in a skyscraper in an industrial area. Maul spent the next two years carrying out a series of secret missions for his Master. The missions were conceived to help Sidious gain power without others ever knowing of his existence. By the end of those two years, Maul had repeatedly proven that he was as strong as he was fast, and that he would never break. He also sensed that his control of the darkness that fueled the Force was close to perfect.
―Episode I Journal: Darth MaulSo it is not my age that tells my Master I am ready, but my abilities. I know I am strong and fast and I never break. My control of the darkness that fuels the Force is close to perfect.
There is already a power gap between Orsis!Maul and 17yo!Maul.
Refer to the next section for the gap between 17yo!Maul and TPM Maul.
Refer to TCW Maul section of post #1 for the gap between TPM and TCW Maul.
Maul drags a large shuttle across the ground and off of a cliff.
https://imgur.com/a/O1bUhna
—Darth Maul: Shadow ConspiracyMaul and Savage found themselves surrounded by laser blasts flying in from all angles. The pirates were firing for all they were worth, eager to brag about the day they’d taken down two Sith. Maul and Savage spun their lightsabers in continuous arcs, deflecting bolts in all directions. But there were too many pirates, too many blasters. They couldn’t possibly block them all. A bolt got through Maul’s defenses, crumpling one of his mechanical legs.
Maul growled, then reached desperately out in the Force, turning his fury into a command. The Jedi shuttle tumbled off the ridge with a groan, crashing down on the landing pad and scattering the pirates.
Focus is needed for TK, and Maul’s focus was split between deflecting omnidirectional blaster fire, running and dealing with an amputated leg. Maul’s connection to this leg went beyond mere prosthesis, because 1. Maul howls in pain when he is shot, and 2. In Death Sentence, Maul is stabbed in his alchemical lower abdomen, is noted as being injured and eventually collapses.
Yes, Sith can turn pain into power, but with all of these mitigating factors, Maul was not close to his peak.
Maul tears down a tunnel after being stabbed.
Maul breaks through a combat-ready Obi-Wan’s defences and dominates him with TK several times.
—Darth Maul: Shadow Conspiracy“Savage howled in agony, retreating toward Maul as his brother shoved Obi-Wan backward with a blast of Force power.”
https://youtu.be/aE_CVWMWK74?t=281
https://imgur.com/a/qi5Ne
Strength, Speed + TK - Scaling
Plagueis + Venamis in 67BBY:The droid 11-4D can track the trajectories of blaster bolts and respond instantaneously to danger, yet, it viewed Plagueis’ movements as a blur or gust of wind.
―Darth PlagueisThe face-off tableau in the cabinspace had endured for only a moment when Wandau, who had served as a bodyguard for a celebrated Hutt, leapt into action, drawing and firing his blaster even as he raced for cover behind one of the bulkheads. A split second behind, Maa Kaap raised his weapon and fired a continuous hail of blaster bolts at the Muun. In the same instant Zuto and PePe, crouched low to the deck, sprang forward in an attempt to outflank their opponent and place him at the center of a deadly crossfire.
From the passageway that led to the cockpit came the rapid footfalls of the pilot, Blir', and the ship's Dresselian navigator, Semasalli. 11-4D knew that they had been monitoring cam feeds of the cargo bay, and thought it likely that they had witnessed whatever sentence the Muun had levied on Captain Lah.
The Muun's reaction to the barrage of bolts that converged on him required almost more processing power than the droid had at its disposal. By employing a combination of body movements, lightsaber, and naked right hand, the agile sentient evaded, deflected, or returned every shot that targeted him. Slowly surrendering energy, the bolts caromed from the deck and bulkheads, touching off alarms, prompting a switch to emergency illumination, and unleashing cascades of fire-suppressant foam from the ceiling aerosols. No sooner had the Balosar and the Dresselian entered the cabinspace than hatches sealed the corridors, preventing any escape from the melee. Only 11-4D's ability to calculate trajectories and react instantaneously to danger kept it from being on the receiving end of any of the numerous ricochets.
―Darth PlagueisThe woebegone had just reverted to realspace when 11-4D’s audio sensors registered unusual sounds from aft: an activation click, a prolonged hiss of energy, a dopplering slash, a stuttering exhalation of breath. The sounds were followed by a sudden outpouring of heat from the corridor that accessed the cargo bays and what might have been interpreted as a gust of wind. Only by adjusting the input rate of its photoreceptors was the droid able to identify the blur that raced into the cabin space as a male Muun dressed in a hooded robe, trousers, and softboots that reached his shins.
Plagueis and Venamis’ fight would have appeared like lightning flashing through a forest, in other words, as if they were rapidly teleporting despite the rough obstacle-ridden terrain.
―Darth PlagueisThe contest took them backward and forward through the trees, across narrow streams, and up onto piles of rocks that were the ruins of an ancient sentry post. Plagueis took a moment to wonder if anyone at the fort was observing the results of the contest, which, from afar, must have looked like lightning flashing through the forest's understory.
Plagueis smashes transparisteel.
―Darth PlagueisWhen he tried springing the hatch, however, he found that it wouldn’t budge. He was ultimately able to gain entry to the cockpit by assailing the transparisteel canopy with a series of Force blows.
With a kick Plagueis sends a Zabrak across a cabin snapping his spine and crushing his chest.
―Darth PlagueisThe Muun caught the lightsaber, but instead of bringing it to bear against Maa Kaap, he danced and twirled out of reach of the vibroblade and commenced parrying the Zabrak's martial kicks and punches, a side-kick to the thorax drove Maa Kaap clear across the cabin and slamming into the bulkhead. OneOne-FourDee’s audio pickups registered the snap of the Zabrak’s spine and the bursting of pulmonary arteries.d
―Darth PlagueisHe remained by the Quara’s side for a few moments, then moved quickly to Maa Kaap, from whose crushed chest cavity blood bubbled with each shallow breath.
The gap between Plagueis + Tenebrous in 67BBY:
Plagueis had to call deeply on his reserves to keep up with Tenebrous, conceded he could not defeat him, Venamis thought it impossible Plagueis could defeat him, Tenebrous did not train Plagueis properly and viewed him as pitiful.
―Darth PlagueisNearly knocked over by the swiftness of Tenebrous's departure, Plagueis had to call deeply on the Force merely to keep up.
―Darth PlagueisHis success in bringing the ceiling down on Tenebrous was proof enough that the Bith had grown sluggish and expendable. Otherwise, he would have divined the true source of the danger he had sensed, and Plagueis would be the one pressed to the floor of the grotto, head cracked open like an egg and chest cavity pierced by the pointed end of a fallen stalactite.
―Darth PlagueisDarth Venamis likewise concluded it impossible for someone of Plagueis’ caliber to defeat Tenebrous in battle.
“I knew I could draw you out, Darth Plagueis,” the Bith said.
Plagueis dropped all pretence and faced him squarely. “You’re well trained. I sensed the Force in you, but not the dark side.”
“I’ve Darth Tenebrous to thank for it.”
“He made you in his image. You’re a product of Bith science.”
The Bith laughed harshly. “You’re an old fool. He found and trained me.”
Plagueis recalled the warning Tenebrous had nearly given voice to before he died. “He took you as an apprentice?”
“I am Darth Venamis.”
“Darth?” Plagueis said with disgust. “We’ll see about that.”
“Your death will legitimize the title, Plagueis.”
Plagueis cocked his head to the side. “Your Master left orders for you to kill me?”
The Bith nodded. “Even now he awaits my return.”
“Awaits...” Plagueis said. As astonishing as it was to learn that Tenebrous had trained a second apprentice, he had a surprise in store for Venamis. Inhaling, he said, “Tenebrous is dead.”
Confusion showed in Venamis’s eyes. “You wish it were so.”
Plagueis held his lightsaber off to one side, parallel to the ground. “What’s more, he died by my hand.”
“Impossible.”
―The Tenebrous WayTenebrous was by far the most powerful Force-user whose death Plagueis had the opportunity to observe, and he had known all along that his apprentice would apply all his physical, mental, and Force capabilities - pitiful as they might be - to witness each slightest detail.
―The Tenebrous WayInstead of actually training his doltish apprentice, Tenebrous had flattered Plagueis' mysticism while pricking his insecurities, sending him off on one useless, doomed-to-fail mission after another.
[...]
Hmm - perhaps he should have invested some time in actually training the foolish Muun.
52BBY Sheev + Plagueis:
For 600 years leading up to 54BBY, the Banite Sith undertook the Kursid rite of having the Sith Master and apprentice non-lethally defeat hundreds of Kursid warriors with force pikes. The Kursids evolved marginally in terms of tech over the years. Each repetition of this rite would become marginally more impressive.
A Banite Master and apprentice 600 years before 54BBY Plagueis can onetap hundreds without being hit. Sheev and Plagueis also did this.
―Darth PlagueisThe location of the planet known to the Sith as Kursid had been expunged from the Republic records in distant times, and for the past six hundred years had been reserved for use as a place of spectacle. Masters and apprentices of the Bane lineage had visited with enough regularity that a cult had come into being in that part of the world based on the periodic return of the sky visitors. The Sith hadn't bothered to investigate what Kursid's indigenous humanoids thought about the visits—whether in their belief systems the Sith were regarded as the equivalent of deities or demons—since it was unlikely that the primitives had yet so much as named their world. However, visiting as apprentice and—more often than not—as Master, each Sith Lord had remarked on the slow advancement of Kursid's civilization. How, on the early visits, the primitives had defended themselves with wooden war clubs and smooth rocks hurled from slings. Two hundred years later, many of the small settlements had grown to become cities or ceremonial centers built of a crude sort, and magical guardian symbols had been emblazoned on the sloping sides of defensive walls. At some point previous to Darth Tenebrous's visit as an apprentice, replicas of the Sith ships had been constructed in the center of the arid plateau that served as a battleground, and enormous totemic figures—visible only from above—had been outlined by removing tens of thousands of fists-sized volcanic stones that covered the ground. On Plagueis's first visit, some fifty years earlier, the warriors he and Tenebrous had faced had been armed with longbows and metal-tipped lances.
That the Sith had never demanded anything other than battle hadn't kept the primitives from attempting to adopt a policy of appeasement, leaving at the ships' perpetual landing site foodstuffs, sacrificial victims, and works of what they considered art, forged of materials they held precious or sacred. But the Sith had simply ignored the offerings, waiting instead on the stony plain for the primitives to deploy their warriors, as the primitives did now with Plagueis and Sidious waiting. Announcing their arrival with low runs over the city, they had set the ship down and waited for six days, while the mournful calls of breath-driven horns had disturbed the dry silences, and groups of primitives had flocked in to gather on the hillsides that overlooked the battleground.
"Do you recall what Darth Bane said regarding the killing of innocents?" Plagueis had asked.
"Our mission," Sidious paraphrased, "is not to bring death on all those unfit to live. All we do must serve our true purpose—the preservation of our Order and the survival of the Sith. We must work to grow our power, and to accomplish that we will need to interact with individuals of many species across many worlds. Eventually word of our existence will reach the ears of the Jedi."
To refrain from senseless killing, they wielded force pikes rather than lightsabers. Meter-long melee weapons used by the Echani and carried by the Senate Guard, the pikes were equipped with stun-module tips capable of delivering a shock that could overwhelm the nervous systems of most sentients, without causing permanent damage.
"The next few hours will test the limits of your agility, speed, and accuracy," Plagueis said, as several hundred of the biggest, bravest, and most skilled warriors—their bodies daubed in pigments derived from plants, clay, and soil—began to separate themselves from the crowds. "But this is more than some simple exercise in our rise to ultimate power, and therefore servants of the dark side of the Force. Centuries from now, advanced by the Sith, they might confront us with projectile weapons or energy beams. But then we will have evolved, as well, perhaps past the need for this rite, and we will come instead to honor rather than engage them in battle. Through power we gain victory, and through victory our chains are broken. But power is only a means to an end."
To the clamorous beating of drums and the wailing of the onlookers, the warriors brandished their weapons, raised a deafening war cry, and attacked. A nod from Plagueis, and the two Sith sped across the plain to meet them, flying among them like wraiths, evading arrows, gleaming spear tips, and blows from battle-axes, going one against one, two, or three, but felling opponent after opponent with taps from the force pikes, until among the hundreds of jerking, twitching bodies sprawled on the rough ground, only one was left standing. That was when Plagueis tossed aside the stun pike and ignited his crimson blade, and a collective lament rose from the crowds on the hillsides.
Plagueis and Sheev took turns orbiting and defending eachother as they deflected omnidirectional blaster fire from a series of concentric rings of droids numbering 200. The droids were of a wide variety of models, boasting a wide variety of blaster types.
―Darth PlagueisOn Hypori they were the prey, standing back-to-back in their black zeyd-cloth hooded robes at the center of concentric rings of droids, retrofitted by Baktoid Armor to function as combat automata. Two hundred programmed assailants—bipedal, treaded, some levitated by antigrav generators—armed with a variety of weapons, ranging from hand blasters to short-barreled burst-rifles. Plagueis hadn't allowed his young apprentice to wield a lightsaber until a few years earlier, but Sidious was brandishing one now, self-constructed of phrik alloy and aurodium, and powered by a synthetic crystal. Made for delicate, long-fingered hands—as much a work of art as a weapon—the lightsaber thrummed as he waved the blade from side to side in front of him.
"Every weapon, manufactured by whatever species, has its own properties and peculiarities," Plagueis was saying, his own blade angled toward the ferrocrete floor of the battledome's fabricated cityscape, as if to light a fuse. "Range, penetrating power, refresh rate... In some instances your life might depend on your ability to focus on the weapon rather than the wielder. You must train yourself to identify a weapon instantly—whether it's a product of BlasTech or Merr-Sonn, Tenloss or Prax—so that you will know where to position yourself, and the several ways to best deflect a well-aimed bolt."
Plagueis put his words into action as the first ring of droids began to converge on them, staggering the attack and triggering bursts at random. Orbiting Sidious, the Muun's blade warded off every volley, returning the bolts to their sources, or deflecting them into the facades of the faux buildings surrounding them or into other droids. At other times Plagueis made no attempt to redirect the attacks, but simply torqued his rangy body, allowing the bolts to miss him by centimeters. Around the two Sith, the automata collapsed one after the next, gushing lubricants from holed reservoirs or exploding in a hail of alloy parts, until all were heaped on the ferrocrete floor.
"The next ring is yours," Plagueis said.
Rugged, uninhabited Hypori belonged to the Techno Union, whose Skakoan foreman, Wat Tambor, owed his seat in the Republic Senate to Damask Holdings. In exchange, the bionic humanoid had made Hypori available as a training ground for members of the Echani Sun Guard and provided the necessary battle droids. Calling in another favor, Hego Damask had requested a private session in the fabricated cityscape, so that Plagueis and his apprentice could be free to employ lightsabers—though only for the purpose of deflecting bolts rather than dismemberment or penetration.
When it came Sidious's turn to demonstrate his skill, Plagueis spoke continuously from behind him, adding distraction to the distinct possibility of inadvertent disintegration.
"A being trained in the killing arts doesn't wait for you to acquire him as a target, or establish him or herself as an opponent, as if in some martial arts contest. Your reactions must be instantaneous and nothing less than lethal, for you are a Sith Lord, and will be marked for death."
The droids continued to converge, ring after ring of them, until the floor was piled high with smoking husks. Plagueis issued a voice command that brought the onslaught to an abrupt end and deactivated his lightsaber. The pinging of cooling weapons, the hiss of escaping gas, the unsteady whir of failing servomotors punctuated the sudden silence. Alloy limbs spasmed and photoreceptors winked out, surrendering their eerie glow. The recycled air was rotten with the smell of fried circuitry.
While half-dead, Plagueis snaps necks, smashes skulls and put his fists through armoured torsos.
―Darth PlagueisThe closest of the assassins swung to him with raised vibroblades and rushed forward, only to be flung backward off the canted stage and against the room’s curved walls. Others Plagueis felled with his hands by snapping necks and putting his fists through armored torsos…
…In blinding motion his hands and feet smashed skulls and wind-pipes.
Sheev only a few years prior to the two above exercises was even allowed to use a lightsaber, meanwhile, Plagueis was a Banite with over a human lifetime’s worth of experience. Sheev muses Plagueis’ powers were beyond his understanding:
―Darth PlagueisPlagueis hadn't allowed his young apprentice to wield a lightsaber until a few years earlier, but Sidious was brandishing one now, self-constructed of phrik alloy and aurodium, and powered by a synthetic crystal.
―Darth PlagueisPalpatine hadn't been attempting to flatter Plagueis when he had called him wise-not entirely, at any rate. The Muun was powerful beyond Palpatine’s present understanding.
Sheev and Plagueis between 54BBY and 32BBY grew dramatically.
Sheev’s power increased tenfold between 52BBY and 32BBY. This is in large part due to his intense study of the Sith archives and his training of Maul - as noted training an apprentice promotes growth, and Sheev trained Maul for 20 years.
―Darth PlagueisDuring the long period between the Gran's sneak attack and the first Gathering of the new era, Sidious had spoken with Plagueis only by holo. Left to progress on his own, he had trained the Zabrak in secret on Mustafar, Tosste, and Orsis, visited several Sith worlds, and spent considerable time studying the Sith texts and holocrons that remained under guard on Aborah.
[...]
Sidious knew that his own powers had increased tenfold over the decades, but he couldn't be certain he had learned all of Plagueis's secrets-"his sorcerer's ways," as the Sun Guards referred to them-including the ability to prevent beings from dying. He sometimes wondered: Was he a level behind? Two levels behind? Such questions were precisely what had driven generations of Sith apprentices ultimately to challenge their Masters.
Plagueis studied the Force sleeplessly for 12 years in order to “wrest a few last secrets from the Force”, delving into the “deepest strata of the Force” (Midichlorians), eventually achieving such feats as destroying the Light Side bubble the Jedi had propagated for nearly a millennium, and also tipping the balance of the Force towards the Dark Side to such an extreme degree it clouded the precognitive abilities of the Jedi Order, being able to revive the dead, to heal any injury, master any known Force power through an act of will and become youthful (functionally immortal). Plagueis then became “drunk on newfound power” and sought to do the “unthinkable” and create a Forceful being (this being around the time Anakin was miraculously conceived). Then over the course of eight years he continued his intense study of Midichlorians, and increased his own midichlorian count.
―Darth PlagueisSeen through the Force, he was a nuclear oval of mottled light, a rotating orb of terrifying energy. If the Maladian attack had weakened him physically, it had also helped to shape his etheric body into a vessel sufficiently strong to contain the full power of the dark side. Determined never again to be caught off guard, he had trained himself to go without sleep, and had devoted two standard decades to day-and-night experimentation with midi-chlorian manipulation and attempts to wrest a few last secrets from the Force, so that he-and presumably his human apprentice-might live forever. His inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death.
―Darth PlagueisIn the same way that the pre-Bane Sith had been responsible for their own extinction, the great dark side Lords of the past had doomed themselves to the nether realm through their attempts to conquer death by feeding off the energies of others, rather than by tapping the deepest strata of the Force and learning to speak the language of the midi-chlorians.
―Darth PlagueisStill in safekeeping on Aborah were texts and holocrons that recounted the deeds and abilities of Sith Masters who, so it was said and written, had been able to summon wind or rain or fracture the skies with conjured lightning. In their own words or those of their disciples, a few Dark Lords claimed to have had the ability to fly, become invisible, or transport themselves through space and time. But Plagueis had never succeeded in duplicating any of those phenomena.
From the start Tenebrous had told him that he lacked the talent for Sith sorcery, even though the inability hadn't owed to a deficiency of midi-chlorians. It's an innate gift, the Bith would say when pressed, and one that he had lacked, as well. Sorcery paled in comparison with Bith science, regardless. But Plagueis now understood that Tenebrous had been wrong about sorcery, as he had been wrong about so many things. Yes, the gift was strongest in those who, with scant effort, could allow themselves to be subsumed by the currents of the Force and become conduits for the powers of the dark side. But there was an alternative path to those abilities, and it led from a place where the circle closed on itself and sheer will substituted for selflessness. Plagueis understood, too, that there were no powers beyond his reach; none he couldn't master through an effort of will. If a Sith of equal power had preceded him, then that one had taken his or her secrets to the grave, or had locked them away in holocrons that had been destroyed or had yet to surface.
The question of whether he and Sidious had discovered something new or rediscovered something ancient was beside the point. All that mattered was that, almost a decade earlier, they had succeeded in willing the Force to shift and tip irrevocably to the dark side. Not a mere paradigm shift, but a tangible alteration that could be felt by anyone strong in the Force, and whether or not trained in the Sith or Jedi arts.
The shift had been the outcome of months of intense meditation, during which Plagueis and Sidious had sought to challenge the Force for sovereignty and suffuse the galaxy with the power of the dark side. Brazen and shameless, and at their own mortal peril, they had waged etheric war, anticipating that their own midi-chlorians, the Force's proxy army, might marshal to boil their blood or stop the beating of their hearts. Risen out of themselves, discorporate and as a single entity, they had brought the power of their will to bear, asserting their sovereignty over the Force. No counterforce had risen against them. In what amounted to a state of rapture they knew that the Force had yielded, as if some deity had been tipped from its throne. On the fulcrum they had fashioned, the light side had dipped and the dark side had ascended.
On the same day they had allowed Venamis to die.
Then, by manipulating the Bith's midi-chlorians, which should have been inert and unresponsive, Plagueis had resurrected him. The enormity of the event had stunned Sidious into silence and overwhelmed and addled 11-4D's processors, but Plagueis had carried on without assistance, again and again allowing Venamis to die and be returned to life, until the Bith's organs had given out and Plagueis had finally granted him everlasting death.
But having gained the power to keep another alive hadn't been enough for him. And so after Sidious had returned to Coruscant, he had devoted himself to internalizing that ability, by manipulating the midi-chlorians that animated him. For several months he made no progress, but ultimately he began to perceive a measured change. The scars that had grown over his wounds had abruptly begun to soften and fade, and he had begun to breathe more freely than he had in twenty years. He began to sense that not only were his damaged tissues healing, but his entire body was rejuvinating itself. Beneath the transpirator, areas of his skin were smooth and youthful, and he knew that eventually he would cease to age altogether.
Drunk on newfound power, then, he had attempted an even more unthinkable act: to bring into being a creation of his own. Not merely the impregnation of some hapless, mindless creature, but the birth of a Forceful being. The ability to dominate death had been a step in the right direction, but it wasn't equivalent to pure creation. And so he had stretched out-indeed, as if invisible, transubstantiated-to inform every being of his existence, and impact all of them: Muunoid or insectoid, secure or dispossessed, free or enslaved. A warrior waving a banner in triumph on a battlefield. A ghost infiltrating a dream.
But ultimately to no end.
The Force grew silent, as if in flight from him, and many of the animals in his laboratory succumbed to horrifying diseases.
Regardless, eight long years later, Plagueis remained convinced that he was on the verge of absolute success. The evidence was in his own increased midi-chlorian count; and in the power he sensed in Sidious when he had finally returned to Sojourn. The dark side of the Force was theirs to command, and in partnership they would someday be able to keep each other alive, and to rule the galaxy for as long as they saw fit.
But he had yet to inform Sidious of this.
It was more important that Sidious remain as focused on manipulating events in the profane world as Plagueis was intent on dominating the realm of the Force, of which the mundane was only a gross and distorted reflection.
To be sure, the light had been extinguished, but for how long and at what cost?
He recalled a stellar eclipse he had witnessed on a long-forgotten world, whose single moon was of perfect size and distance to blot out the light of the system's primary. The result hadn't been total darkness but illumination of a different sort, singular and diffuse, that had confused the birds and had permitted the stars to be seen in what would have been broad daylight. Even totally blocked, the primary had shone from behind the satellite's disk, and when the moon moved on there had been a moment of light almost too intense to bear.
Gazing into Sojourn's darkening sky, he wondered what calamity the Force was planning in retreat to visit upon him or Sidious or both of them for willfully tipping the balance. Was retribution merely waiting in the wings as it had been on Coruscant twenty years earlier? It was a dangerous time; more dangerous than his earliest years as an apprentice when the dark side might have consumed him at any moment.
For now, at least, his full convalescence was near complete. Sidious was continuing to become more powerful as a Sith and as a politician, his most intricate schemes meeting with little or no resistance. And the Jedi Order was foundering...
Time would tell, and time was short.
To make it abundantly clear the gap between 52BBY and 32BBY Plagueis, look at how he was “just beginning to learn how to persuade, prompt, cajole, and coax [Midichlorians] into action”, but could only muse over the possibility of one day conquering life and death, or producing a Forceful being, as he did in roughly 42BBY.
―Darth PlagueisAs evidenced by those few Lords who had managed to perpetuate their spirits after physical death-foremost among them Emperor Vitiate, who was said to have lived a thousand years-the ancient Sith had come halfway across that bridge. But those few had been so focused on worldly power that they had ended up trapping themselves between realms. That they had never provided the Order with guidance from beyond attested to the fact that their influence had been negligible, and had long since faded from the world.
In the same way that the pre-Bane Sith had been responsible for their own extinction, the great dark side Lords of the past had doomed themselves to the nether realm through their attempts to conquer death by feeding off the energies of others, rather than by tapping the deepest strata of the Force and learning to speak the language of the midi-chlorians. Plagueis was finally learning to do that, and was just beginning to learn how to persuade, prompt, cajole, and coax them into action. Already he could command them to promote healing, and now he had been successful in enticing them to lower their defenses. If he could compel a murderous Yinchorri to become peaceful, could he-with a mere suggestion-accomplish the opposite by turning a peaceful being into a murderer? Would he one day be able to influence the leaders of worlds and systems to act according to his designs, however iniquitous? Would he one day conquer not only death but life, as well, by manipulating midi-chlorians to produce Forceful beings, even in the absence of fertilization, as Darth Tenebrous might have attempted to do with gene-splicing techniques and computers?
Perhaps.
In 67BBY it’s outright stated Plagueis “had honed the ability to perceive the actions of midi-chlorians, though not yet the ability to manipulate them.”
―Darth PlagueisTenebrous was paralyzed and unconscious but not yet dead. Plagueis had no interest in saving him—even if it were possible—but he was interested in observing the behavior of the Bith’s midi-chlorians as life ebbed. The Jedi thought of the cellular organelles as symbionts, but to Plagueis midi-chlorians were interlopers, running interference for the Force and standing in the way of a being’s ability to contact the Force directly. Through years of experimentation and directed meditation, Plagueis had honed an ability to perceive the actions of midi-chlorians, though not yet the ability to manipulate them.
Plagueis noticed a significant amplification of his powers after killing Tenebrous, but he also noted at the time his midichlorian count had not increased.
―Darth PlagueisAwake in the oppressive heat, he replayed the events of the previous day, still somewhat astounded by what he had done. The Force had whispered to him: Your moment has come. Claim your stake to the dark side. Act now and be done with this. But the Force had only advised; it had neither dictated his actions nor guided his hands. That had been his doing alone. He knew from his travels with and without Tenebrous that he wasn't the galaxy's sole practitioner of the dark side-nor Sith for that matter, since the galaxy was rife with pretenders-but he was now the only Sith Lord descended from the Bane line. A true Sith, and that realization roused the raw power coiled inside him.
―Darth PlagueisWith 11-4D deep in processing mode, Plagueis withdrew a vial of his own blood and subjected it to analysis. Despite the recent amplification of his powers he sensed that his midi-chlorian count had not increased since the events on Bal'demnic, and the analysis of the blood sample confirmed his suspicions.
Contrast this with actually increasing his midichlorian count amongst all of the other developments he made with midichlorian manipulation.
―Darth PlagueisRegardless, eight long years later, Plagueis remained convinced that he was on the verge of absolute success. The evidence was in his own increased midi-chlorian count; and in the power he sensed in Sidious when he had finally returned to Sojourn. The dark side of the Force was theirs to command, and in partnership they would someday be able to keep each other alive, and to rule the galaxy for as long as they saw fit.
And you will see how far more powerful Plagueis was in 32BBY than he was in 54BBY, let alone 54BBY Sheev.
There should also be a big gap between their roughly 42BBY selves and 52BBY, because it was a decade prior to TPM they carried out their meditation against the Force. Certainly by the time of the Force meditation, both Plagueis and Sheev have surpassed Tenebrous.
Maul at the age of 17 in 37BBY, nearly killed Sheev. After 2 weeks of training more intense than anything he had ever done, leaving him exhausted, he was then given the "real test", stranded on Hypori to be hunted by a fleet of assassin droids for a month with limited supplies. He starved, lost muscle and was shot in the leg. The wound festered untreated and became infected, then Maul passed out in a state of hallucinating exhaustion.
Sheev finds him then goads him into a lightsaber duel, telling him he was being replaced and he was to be killed. Maul experiences an unparalleled rage which nearly consumed him, and focused it using "reserves of strength I did not know I had", he believed he could "do anything". He employed "strategy" and "flawless footwork" into an assault that "nearly bested his master", blows Sheev "barely deflected." It was only because Maul’s Force reserves expired prematurely, due to his fatigue and injury, that his assault ended.
―Dark Side SourcebookMaul's final test as a Sith apprentice occurred on an isolated Outer Rim World. Abandoned there by Darth Sidious, he was told that he had to survive on his own until Sidious returned a month later, all the while being hunted by hordes of deadly assassin droids. Maul fought as best as he could, but exhaustion and hunger finally took their toll, and one of the tireless droids finally wounded him badly enough that he felt he could not go on. At that point, Darth Sidious returned and challenged his apprentice to a lightsaber duel, telling Maul that he had secretly been training a second apprentice in case Maul failed his final test-which, by failing to kill Sidious in the duel, he just had.
Anger and hatred welled up in Maul, and he drew renewed strength from the dark side. Hurling himself at Darth Sidious, he nearly bested his master with a flurry of deadly lightsaber blows. Sidious barely deflected them all. Eventually Maul spent his fury, and Darth Sidious still stood. Maul prepared himself for death-but Sidious only laughed. By giving in to his rage and hatred to kill his own master-by wanting to kill his own master-Maul had in fact passed the final test. Now he was a Sith Lord-Darth Maul, Dark Lord of the Sith.
―Episode I Journal: Darth MaulFor fourteen days, I take a series of physical tests. Lightsaber duels, endurance exercises, fasting. Some tests I take blindfolded or in a sensory-deprivation suit. It is the most grueling fourteen days I can imagine. By the time it ends, I am exhausted.
And I find that the test has not yet begun.
"I am sending you to a planet in the Outer Rim, " my Master tells me. "It is made up of three kinds of terrain: desert, swamp, and mountains. You will have at least three matches on each terrain. I have sent a fleet of assassin droids to attack you. Each are programmed with different strategies. Some will work together, some will work alone. They are all programmed to kill. "
That gets my attention.
"That is correct, " Lord Sidious says quietly. "I am prepared to lose what I most value. So must you be to become a Sith. You must be prepared to lose your own life in order to win. "
I nod. "I understand, my Master. "
"You will have to survive for a month, " Lord Sidious adds. "You will have only a survival pack. "
Despite my exhaustion, I am exhilarated, too. Did I ever imagine it would be easy to become a Sith Lord? The value of anything is measured by effort. I will prove to my Master that I am the best apprentice in the history of the Sith. I shall not only survive, I shall conquer.
I realize now how young I was. I couldn't have known what was ahead of me.
I land on the planet and begin my test. It is infinitely more difficult than my imagination has been able to grasp. The assassin droids are relentless. Again and again I am awakened by an attack. Again and again I fight, move camp, fight again. I am driven into the mountain snows and across the burning desert. I lose my survival pack in a battle and have to kill and forage for food.
Ten days go by. Fifteen. Twenty.
I grow thin and my strength begins to ebb. I have never felt such weakness, even during my fasts. And yet I have to go on. I have to fight, I have to find a place to rest, I have to fight again. I count off the days in my head.
One battle with two assassin droids almost undoes me. I sustain a bad blaster wound to my thigh. I drag myself to a cave to hide. I have no bacta, no bandages. Yet I know I must recover before I fight again.
The wound festers. It is a searing, blinding pain. I am too weak to forage for food. The days blur. I no longer know how long I've been on the planet. Surely it has been more than a month. Has my Master forgotten about me?
I am close to hallucinating when Lord Sidious appears at the mouth of the cave. I am so glad to see him that my bones turn to water. I look at him hopefully.
"Now it is time for your final battle, " he says.
Another battle? I can't even walk.
Yet his power over me is so strong that I rise on my watery legs. The cave walls shimmer in front of my eyes. My balance is off. I fumble for my lightsaber and activate it.
"Where is the assassin droid, Master?" I ask. My voice emerges hoarsely from thick, swollen lips. I need water. I would kill for water.
My Master powers up his lightsaber. "I will be your opponent. "
I take a step toward him. I know this is my final test. I summon up the dark side of the Force. I take all my pain and anger and form it into a tightly packed ball. I set that ball aflame in my chest.
I feel a trickle of strength enter me. That encourages me. I use that strength to stoke the fire inside me.
"You cannot be as pathetic as you look, " my Master says. He raises his lightsaber and attacks.
I parry the blow and reverse, come at him from the opposite side. But he is already gone by the time I am able to make my attack. The lunge throws off my balance. I weave, the cave walls blurring. He laughs.
"I take it back, " he says. "You are that pathetic. "
He tells me I am weak, not worthy of being a Sith Lord. He tells me he has misjudged me. I attempt to attack him. The ball of anger inside me turns to howling rage. It is painfully obvious that he is playing with me. He can kill me in a heartbeat. Yet something in me will not accept this, even from my Master. My life force won't allow it. I struggle on, even in the face of his laughter.
He tells me that he has expected my failure. He saw my weaknesses long ago. Secretly, over the long years, he has trained another apprentice. I have not been alone.
I point out, gasping, that more than one apprentice is against the rules of the Sith.
"You are right, " he says. "A spark of intelligence at last. "
The second apprentice is on the other side of the planet. He conquered all the assassin droids sent after him. He did not sustain more than a flesh wound. He is healthy and strong.
"Unlike the pathetic weakling I see before me, " my Master says.
I realize dully what this means. My opponents had not really been the droids. My opponent had been someone I had never seen. My enemy has been chosen by my Master. He will become a Sith Lord. He will receive the honor I was due. He will reap the glory I had punished my body and disciplined my mind in order to receive.
A slow rage begins to burn through me. It is a terrible anger, no less fierce because it starts as a kernel of disbelief and then builds. I have never felt anything like it. I know it can consume me.
No. I can direct it. My rage will consume my enemy. It will consume my Master.
Yes, my Master is now my enemy. He is my betrayer. Hatred sears me, hardens me.
"Can you make the next leap in logic?" Lord Sidious asks me contemptuously. "Try to focus, Maul. If there can be only one apprentice, then one of you must die. Who do you think I have chosen to die. Maul?"
The rage rockets within me, pumping energy into my muscles. I can do anything. I can kill my Master. I want to kill him. My hatred is so huge it blots everything else but my desire for his blood.
With a howl torn from the depths of my belly, I spring at him. He barely misses the first blow from my lightsaber, for even in my rage I have employed strategy, coming at him from below, hoping to rip him in two.
He parries my next blow. Sweat stings my eyes as I move across the rough cave floor. I do not stumble. I am nothing but the pulse of my anger, pure energy, pure darkness. I streak across the cave floor and come at him again, somersaulting through the air. My lightsaber whirls in the darkness. When he parries the blow, he staggers.
I am going to kill him. Every beat of my blood exults in my power. Every blow I deliver is meant to be the killing blow. I use reserves of strength I did not know I had. My blows are sure and precise, my footwork flawless. I gather in the power of the dark side. I feel my power clash with his. The air is thick, charged with our dark, titanic powers.
He parries every blow. But I see that he has to work hard to keep me at bay. Triumph roars through me at my Master's weakness. He is not as powerful as he appears.
"You want to kill me?" he taunts. "You want to kill your Master?"
"Yes, " I grunt.
"You hate me?"
"Yes!" I scream out the word through gritted teeth.
But I have been weakened by my ordeal, and my Master maneuvers me against the cave wall. I am gasping, trying to suck in enough air to keep going. My vision blurs as Lord Sidious raises his lightsaber. I parry the blow, but my lightsaber suddenly flies out of my hand, torn by the power of my Master directing the dark side. I realize then that he has just begun to tap into his own reserves. Mine are played out.
I will not be able to deflect the next blow.
- The LostLevel Five
Re: SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Maul (ILS)
May 3rd 2019, 11:42 pm
―The Wrath of Darth MaulSidious and Maul returned to Mustafar. For fourteen days, Sidious put Maul through a series of grueling physical tests. Maul defended himself against lightsaber-wielding droids in the training room. Blindfolded, he threw daggers at robotic targets, which threw the daggers back at him. He was blindfolded again before he climbed into a starship flight simulator wired with disciplinary electrodes. He wore a sensory-deprivation suit when he ran through a maze that was lined with razor-edged walls, and also when he was deposited into a previously unexplored Mustafarian cove. In locked chambers, he was exposed to extreme temperatures and deprived of food. For each test, he drew strength from the dark side of the Force.
When the fourteen days were over, Maul was exhausted. His entire body ached as he stood before Sidious in the meeting room. Not only had he passed every test, he had destroyed every test. However, his Master always expected more from him, so he was not entirely surprised when Sidious said, "Because you have survived the preliminaries, you may proceed to the actual test to become a Sith Lord,"
Maul willed his body to remain standing.
'"I am sending you to a planet in the Outer Rim" Sidious continued. "It is made up of three kinds of terrain. Desert, swamp, and mountains. You will have at least three matches on each terrain. I have sent a fleet of assassin droids to attack you. Each is programmed with different strategies. Some will work together. Some will work alone. They are all programmed to kill."
Maul turned to face his Master. Although Maul remained silent, the fire in his eyes betrayed his surprise. And his excitement.
Sidious noticed Maul's reaction. "That is correct. I am prepared to lose what I most value. So must you be to become a Sith. You must be prepared to lose your own life in order to win."
Maul nodded. "I understand, my Master."
"You will have to survive for a month." Sidious added. "You will have only a survival pack."
Despite his exhaustion. Maul felt exhilarated. He was determined to prove he was the best apprentice in the history of the Sith.
[...]
The assassin droids were relentless. Programmed to fight to the death, they had blasters built into their chests and hands. No matter how hard Maul tried to conceal himself or his desperately improvised camps, the droids found him. They never slept, never allowed Maul to sleep for very long, never hesitated before they pounced. When Maul did manage to rest and recover, he fell asleep knowing he would be awakened by an attack.
The droid drove him into the frozen mountains and across the burning deserts. Maul's survival pack was torn from his back and lost in one battle. And after twenty days, Maul realized he was at risk of losing something else. His mind.
Because the attacks never stopped.
Maul was beyond paranoid. He had reason to believe that every sound, every shape, and every shadow on Hypori was a potential threat.
He grew thin and his strength began to ebb. He foraged for food when he could. Life was scarce on Hypori, but he found a few small animals, killed them, and ate them raw, because he dared not risk building a fire that would attract more droids.
It was while he was trying to eat a tough-skinned lizard at the base of a cliff that two droids attacked. Maul defeated both droids but sustained a blaster wound to his thigh. Limping into a ravine, he found a large cave and hauled his body into it. Maul knew he had to recover before he could fight again. But without his survival pack, he had no healing bacta or bandages.
The wound festered. The pain was blinding. He listened for approaching droids but heard none. The days blurred, but Maul was almost certain that a full month had passed since he had arrived on Hypori. As he fell into and out of restless sleep. Maul began to wonder if his Master had forgotten him.
His wound became worse. The pain was beyond excruciating. He had no doubt that death would come soon. He thought he was hallucinating when he saw a cloaked figure appear at the mount of the cave.
[...]
Sidious moved into the cave. He came to a stop near Maul. Smiling as he looked down at his apprentice, he said. "Now it is time for your final battle."
Maul wondered if he had heard correctly. He knew his Master must have been able to see plainly that he was not fit to stand. And yet he also knew his Master never tolerated weakness of any kind. Maul scrabbled at the cave's walls and pulled himself up. His balance was off. Searing pain shot through his leg as he lurched forward.
Sidious handed Maul a lightsaber. Maul fumbled with the weapon and activated it. The cave's walls shimmered with light.
Maul did not realize how parched his throat was until he rasped, "Where is the assassin droid, Master?"
Stepping back from Maul, Sidious drew his own lightsaber and ignited its red blade. "I will be your opponent."
Maul stared at his Master with disbelief. And then his disbelief changed to anger. He summoned up the dark side of the Force. He felt a burning sensation flicker and grow within him, a trickle of strength. He took a step toward his Master.
Sidious sneered. "You cannot be as pathetic as you look." He raised his lightsaber and attacked.
Maul parried the blow and reversed, coming at Sidious from the opposite side. But Sidious had already vanished, leaving Maul to hinge at empty air. As Maul lost his balance, his body fell against the cave's wall.
Sidious said from behind Maul. "You are that pathetic. You are weak. Not worthy of being a Sith Lord. I have misjudged you."
Maul's anger turned to rage. He spun fast and swung his lightsaber again, but again he failed to strike Sidious, who moved faster than he could follow. He fell against the opposite wall and gasped for breath.
Sidious howled with laughter. "I expected your failure. I saw your weaknesses long ago. Your doubts in your own abilities. Your lack of faith in my teaching. Your inability to embrace the dark side. And that is why, over these long years, I have secretly trained another apprentice."
Maul stared hard at Sidious.
"Oh, poor Maul. All he ever wanted was a friend. Does it please you to know I have another apprentice? Does it make you feel less alone?"
Still trying to catch his breath. Maul said. "More than one apprentice... is against the rules of the Sith."
"You are right," Sidious said with a grin. "A spark of intelligence, at last." He gestured to the mouth of the cave. "My second apprentice is on the other side of the planet. He conquered all the assassin droids sent after him. He only sustained a flesh wound. He is healthy. He is strong. Unlike the pathetic weakling I see before me."
Maul realized his opponents had not really been the assassin droids. He thought of all the punishment he had endured over the past month, and then of the unending punishments of his entire life. He thought of his true opponent, the unseen adversary, chosen by Sidious to become a Sith Lord. Maul felt robbed of his past and future. And then a rage unlike anything he had ever felt before swelled through him. The rage was so overwhelming that he thought it might consume him.
No. I can direct it. My rage will consume my enemy. It will consume my Master.
Glaring at Sidious, Maul saw the true face of his enemy.
Sidious snickered. "Can you understand? Focus. If there can be only one apprentice, then one of you must die. Who do you think I have chosen to die, Maul?"
Maul felt his rage flowing through his veins, pumping energy into every muscle. He felt so powerful that he believed he could accomplish anything. And more than anything else, he wanted his Master's blood.
Maul sprang at Sidious. Sidious barely missed the first blow from Maul's lightsaber, an upward swing that aimed to rip Sidious in half. Maul swung again but Sidious deflected the blow and retreated. As Maul moved across the rough cave floor, sweat stung his eyes, but he did not stumble. He somersaulted through the air, his lightsaber whirling in the darkness. Sidious raised his lightsaber to parry the next blow, which was so powerful it made him stagger backward. As Maul struck again, he thought, I'm going to kill him.
Sidious parried every blow, but Maul could tell his Master was working hard to keep him at bay. As Sidious backed up against the wall, he said, "You want to kill me? You want to kill your Master?"
Yes," Maul grunted.
"You hate me?"
"Yes!" Maul screamed through clenched teeth.
Sidious shifted like a liquid shadow, maneuvering around his apprentice. Maul was suddenly up against the wall, gasping for breath as his vision blurred. His strength was evaporating. He turned fast to see Sidious. Sidious lashed out with his lightsaber. Maul parried the blow, but then his lightsaber suddenly flew from his hand.
Sheev only fought defensively with a training saber and didn’t want to kill Maul - but it doesn’t change the fact Maul pushed Sheev back with blows he barely deflected, and came close to killing him.
Days later Maul recovered his strength and felt “stronger than ever before.”
―The Wrath of Darth Maul"From this day forward." Sidious said," you are a Sith Lord. You have chosen a path of darkness, the path of power. You are Lord Maul. You are my instrument."
[...]
Sidious and Maul returned to Coruscant, where a medical droid tended to Maul’s injuries. Maul had felt drained by his trials on Hypori, but within several days he felt stronger than ever before. Now that he was a Sith Lord, he was empowered by a sense of purpose.
Also, in his journal, Maul states he was "only beginning to taste the dark power of a Sith" shortly after this fight (still at the age of 17).
―Episode I Journal: Darth MaulMy Master points to the entry. "This will be your weapon, Lord Maul. In order to serve me well, you must be invincible. "
He tells me I must build it myself so that I know it intimately. It shall be fitted to my hand, balanced for my stroke. I shall train with it until it is part of me. And then I will join him on the greatest mission of all.
"What is that, Master?" I dare to ask.
"The domination of the entire galaxy, " he tells me.
That day, I feel a savage exhilaration close to the joy I feel in battle. I am involved in great things. Domination. Control.
I am only beginning to taste the dark power of a Sith.
Maul spent any free time he had meditating and training, which always left him feeling stronger than before.
―The Wrath of Darth MaulWhen Maul finished with the tree, he reluctantly returned the lightsaber lo his Master. Sidious said, "Now, it is time for you to meditate."
"Yes, Master." Maul turned and walked out of the grove, heading into the neighboring field. Sidious had trained him to relax his mind and body by closing his eyes and visualizing a dark, comfortable nothingness, leaving himself open to the power of the Force. Maul enjoyed meditating. It always left him feeling stronger.
―Darth Sidious (Darth Plagueis)"Take the Infiltrator and your combat droids and return to your former home. There, train and meditate until I recall you."
―Darth Maul: Shadow HunterMaul’s entire existence had consisted of training, of exercise and instruction.
Maul also grew in strength in response to tribulation and injury.
―Maul: Lockdown“Jagannath,” he said. “You’re looking surprisingly well, all things considered.”
Maul said nothing. In the twelve hours since his last fight, he’d recovered almost completely from the wounds that the Wampa had inflicted on him. His face still bore the blood-encrusted slash marks from its claws, but he’d regained full use of his arm, and his strength actually seemed to have intensified in response to the attack, like an organism that had thrived from being pruned down close to the taproot.
Sheev observed Maul’s power constantly growing because of his rage alone, “anger that was constantly sweltering inside his apprentice, fermenting as Maul’s power continued to intensify. Locked in unswerving allegiance to their cause, the Zabrak’s heart was a reactor of pure, distilled rage.”
―Maul: LockdownThe Sith Lord harbored no delusions about his apprentice’s ambition or pride, or how closely those elements were linked to the anger that was constantly sweltering inside his apprentice, fermenting as Maul’s power continued to intensify. Locked in unswerving allegiance to their cause, the Zabrak’s heart was a reactor of pure, distilled rage.
Plagueis instructed Sheev to allow Maul’s anger and hatred to fester.
―Darth Plagueis"I agree with you that he should bear witness to the Yinchorri attack on the Jedi Temple."
"I will tell him. He already thinks of the Jedi as abominations. The sight of their sanctuary being violated will quicken his blood."
"Even so, hold him back. Let his anger and hatred fester."
It’s stated that the Sith continued expanding their dark powers up until the point they revealed themselves to the Jedi.
―The Official Star Wars Fact File #1"Never again would there be more than two Sith Lords at one time, but members of the order continued expanding their dark powers without the knowledge of the Jedi, waiting for the opportunity to seize control of the galaxy."
Maul in his fight with Jinn and Kenobi, up to that point, had never fought better. His particular hatred for the Jedi drove him further, but even without that, he was better than he ever was before.
―The Phantom MenaceDarth Maul was a warrior in his prime, never to be any better, his powers at their apex. In addition, he was driven by his messianic hatred for and disdain of the Jedi Knights, the enemies of the Sith for millennia. He had worked and trained all his life for this moment, for a chance to meet a Jedi Knight in combat. It was an added bonus that he was able to engage two. He had no fear for himself, no doubt that he would win. He was focused in a way that Qui-Gon recognized at once-a Jedi's focus, mindful of the present, locked in on what was needed in the here and now. Qui-Gon saw it in his mad eyes and in the set of his red and black tattooed features. The Sith Lord was a living example of what the Jedi Master was always telling Obi-Wan about how best to hear the will of the Force.
Even at the climax of the battle he seemed “fresh as ever” - Maul can summon more power in TPM, without tapping deeply into his reserves, than at any point prior including when he “nearly bested” 37BBY Sheev, back when he was “only beginning to taste the dark power of a Sith.”
―The Phantom Menace Junior NovelisationThe Sith Lord attacked Obi-Wan relentlessly, backing him around the melting pit. All Obi-Wan's efforts could not break through his guard. And Obi-Wan was tiring, while his opponent seemed as fresh as ever.
Circa TPM, Sheev casually twirling a lightsaber was fast enough to be untraceable to Maul’s senses.
―Episode 1 Journal: Darth Maul"The lightsaber whirls in the air, twirling, held in my Master's hand. I can't track it, it moves so fast. But I know it's heading for me. Lord Sidious moves faster than my eye can follow. I smell heat and smoke. The laser traces the outline of my body, my face, my hands. The buzz is loud in my ear. One flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle, and I am dead."
Sheev’s power intensified between TPM and TCW because of his apotheosis after killing Plagueis, his study of the Force, his training of Dooku, and the growth of the dark side.
―Darth PlagueisA tremor took hold of the planet.
Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world’s core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake’s epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.
A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.
Slowly, almost reluctantly, he came back to himself, his gaze settling on his manicured hands. Returned to the present, he took note of his rapid breathing, while behind him the room labored to restore order. Air scrubbers hummed—costly wall tapestries undulating in the summoned breeze. Prized carpets sealed their fibers against the spread of spilled fluids. The droid shuffled in obvious confliction. Sidious pivoted to take in the disarray: antique furniture overturned; framed artwork askew. As if a whirlwind had swept through. And facedown on the floor lay a statue of Yanjon, one of four law-giving sages of Dwartii.
A piece Sidious had secretly coveted.
Also sprawled there, Plagueis: his slender limbs splayed and elongated head turned to one side. Dressed in finery, as for a night on the town.
And now dead.
Or was he?
Uncertainty rippled through Sidious, rage returning to his eyes. A tremor of his own making, or one of forewarning? Was it possible that the wily Muun had deceived him? Had Plagueis unlocked the key to immortality, and survived after all? Never mind that it would constitute a petty move for one so wise—for one who had professed to place the Grand Plan above all else. Had Plagueis become ensnared in a self-spun web of jealousy and possessiveness, victim of his own engineering, his own foibles?
If he hadn’t been concerned for his own safety, Sidious might have pitied him. Wary of approaching the corpse of his former Master, he called on the Force to roll the aged Muun over onto his back. From that angle Plagueis looked almost as he had when Sidious first met him, decades earlier: smooth, hairless cranium; humped nose, with its bridge flattened as if from a shock-ball blow and its sharp tip pressed almost to his upper lip; jutting lower jaw; sunken eyes still brimming with menace—a physical characteristic rarely encountered in a Muun. But then Plagueis had never been an ordinary Muun, nor an ordinary being of any sort.
Sidious took care, still reaching out with the Force. On closer inspection, he saw that Plagueis’s already cyanotic flesh was smoothing out, his features relaxing.
Faintly aware of the whir of air scrubbers and sounds of the outside world infiltrating the luxurious suite, he continued the vigil; then, in relief, he pulled himself up to his full height and let out his breath. This was no Sith trick. Not an instance of feigning death, but one of succumbing to its cold embrace. The being who had guided him to power was gone.
Wry amusement narrowed his eyes.
The Muun might have lived another hundred years unchanged. He might have lived forever had he succeeded fully in his quest. But in the end—though he could save others from death—he had failed to save himself.
A sense of supreme accomplishment puffed Sidious’s chest, and his thoughts unreeled.
Well, then, that wasn’t nearly as bad as we thought it might be...
Rarely did events play out as imagined, in any case. The order of future events was transient. In the same way that the past was reconfigured by selective memory, future events, too, were moving targets. One could only act on instinct, grab hold of an intuited perfect moment, and spring into action. One heartbeat late and the universe would have recomposed itself, no imposition of will sufficient to forestall the currents. One could only observe and react. Surprise was the element absent from any periodic table. A keystone element; a missing ingredient. The means by which the Force amused itself. A reminder to all sentient beings that some secrets could never be unlocked.
Confident that the will of the dark side had been done, he returned to the suite’s window wall. Two beings in a galaxy of countless trillions, but what had transpired in the suite would affect the lives of all of them. Already the galaxy had been shaped by the birth of one, and henceforth would be reshaped by the death of the other. But had the change been felt and recognized elsewhere? Were his sworn enemies aware that the Force had shifted irrevocably? Would it be enough to rouse them from self-righteousness? He hoped not. For now the work of vengeance could begin in earnest.
His eyes sought and found an ascending constellation of stars, one of power and consequence new to the sky, though soon to be overwhelmed by dawn’s first light. Low in the sky over the flatlands, visible only to those who knew where and how to look, it ushered in a bold future. To some the stars and planets might seem to be moving as ever, destined to align in configurations calculated long before their fiery births. But in fact the heavens had been perturbed, tugged by dark matter into novel alignments. In his mouth, Sidious tasted the tang of blood; in his chest, he felt the monster rising, emerging from shadowy depths and contorting his aspect into something fearsome just short of revealing itself to the world.
The dark side had made him its property, and now he made the dark side his.
Breathless, not from exertion but from the sudden inspiration of power, he let go of the sill and allowed the monster to writhe through his body like an unbroken beast of range or prairie.
Had the Force ever been so strong in anyone?
Sidious had never learned how Plagueis’s own Master had met his end. Had he died at Plagueis’s hand? Had Plagueis, too, experienced a similar exultation on becoming a sole Sith Lord? Had the beast of the end time risen then to peek at the world it was to inhabit, knowing its release was imminent?
―The Complete Visual DictionaryBeyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.
―Revenge of the Sith junior novelizationStrong, this Sith Lord is, Yoda thought as their lightsabers whirled and clashed and whirled again. It should not have been a surprise. With the strength of the dark side growing, the Sith must, logically, have grown stronger, too.
―Revenge of the Sith novelizationTo Mace's Force perception, the world crystallized around them, becoming a gem of reality shot through with flaws and fault lines of possibility. This was Mace's particular gift: to see how people and situations fit together in the Force, to find the shear planes that can cause them to break in useful ways, and to intuit what sort of strike would best make the cut. Though he could not consistently determine the significance of the structures he perceived—the darkening cloud upon the Force that had risen with the rebirth of the Sith made that harder and harder with each passing day—the presence of shatterpoints was always clear.
―Revenge of the Sith junior novelizationOnly the Jedi were not surprised. For on Geonosis, Obi-Wan Kenobi and his Padawan apprentice, Anakin Skywalker, had learned that Count Dooku had turned to the dark side of the Force — and the power of the dark side had been growing for years. The Jedi knew that defeating the Separatists would be neither quick nor easy with a Dark Lord of the Sith aiding them.
―The Official Star Wars Fact File #1"Never again would there be more than two Sith Lords at one time, but members of the order continued expanding their dark powers without the knowledge of the Jedi, waiting for the opportunity to seize control of the galaxy."
―Revenge of the SithThe Sith spent a thousand years evolving by studying all aspects of the Force, remaking themselves, whereas the Jedi spent a thousand years training to refight the last war against the Sith.
The Sith had changed. The Sith had grown, had adapted, had invested a thousand years' intensive study into every aspect of not only the Force but Jedi lore itself, in preparation for exactly this day. The Sith had remade themselves.
They had become new.
While the Jedi-
The Jedi had spent that same millennium training to refight the last war.
In TCW, Sheev fought harder against Maul than ever before (“But Maul had never faced his Master when he was actually trying to kill him.”) Yet Maul is able to respond to his blows, and no mention is made of Sheev being too fast to follow or track at this stage.
―Darth Maul: Shadow ConspiracyMaul sprang to his feet and ignited his lightsaber. Savage did the same. The two Zabraks stared grimly at the hooded figure. Sidious retrieved a pair of elegant-looking lightsabers from within the depths of his robes and ignited them. The blades turned his pale face a hellish red.
Maul and Savage didn’t waste time seeking an advantageous position. They simply charged, blades shimmering, trying to overpower Sidious with the animal ferocity of their attack. Sidious caught their sabers on his, the weapons howling and crackling where they touched. Maul saw that Savage was startled by the seemingly frail man’s enormous strength. Maul stared at his Master’s face. He saw the strain as Sidious called upon the Force to keep the brothers at bay. But there was something else there, too—a terrible pleasure. Sidious began to grin.
[...]
The three-pronged duel between Sidious, and Maul and Savage had moved, like some deadly ballet, from the throne room to the steps of the palace. Sidious’s lightsabers twirled swiftly and elegantly, turning aside the furious blows Maul and Savage rained down upon him as the three Sith leapt and spun.
Maul had fought his Master many times, starting when he was little more than a child and continuing through his apprenticeship. His body bore innumerable scars from those duels—lessons in the peril of being too slow or two quick, too weak or too distracted. During Maul’s apprenticeship he had always known that Sidious had been willing to kill him. The Sith had not survived their centuries of exile by being sentimental, and a student who couldn’t stand against his Master in a mere training exercise was worse than useless—he was a waste of valuable resources better used elsewhere. But Maul had never faced his Master when he was actually trying to kill him.
Maul had grown more powerful since the last time he’d been in Sidious’s presence, before the Neimoidian invasion of Naboo had turned disastrous and Obi-Wan had bested him inside the Theed power core. His hermitage on Lotho Minor, his lessons on Unbara, his restoration by Mother Talzin, and his training of Savage had all strengthened him, made him a more worthy vessel for the dark side to fill with its power.
But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimeter out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul and Savage made before it developed.
Maul tried to slash past Sidious’s guard, only to find his Master had given ground, causing Maul to extend his arms too far and leave himself slightly unbalanced. It was the smallest stumble, easily corrected, but Sidious saw it—and pounced before Maul could draw himself back. Snarling, he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall, leaving him lying stunned in a heap.
Savage knew the dangers of facing the Sith Lord alone, and pressed his attack before Sidious draw his hand back from Force-shoving Maul into the wall. Teeth bared, Savage windmilled his double saber, hoping to disarm Sidious or force him to give ground. If he did, that would allow the yellow-and-black Zabrak to follow his initial attack with a lightning-quick thrust that would penetrate Sidious’s defenses and wound or even kill him.
Maul tried to shake off his attack, rocketing up from the floor. Sidious neatly side-stepped Savage’s assault, drawing back as the massive Zabrak raised his double-bladed saber high to try to pummel him with it. Savage didn’t think Sidious was fast enough to take advantage of the brief opening in his defenses, but he was wrong.
Sidious rammed one of his blades through Savage’s black armor, the glowing crimson tip of the saber appearing between his shoulder blades. Savage gasped, his saber tumbling from his grasp. Sidious yanked his weapon back and Savage seemed to hang suspended for a moment, as if he were being levitated by with the Force. Then he crashed to the ground.
Sheev then ramps up his attack even further, “flying” at Maul. Sheev’s sabers only then became a “blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma”. Maul countered some blows, danced away from one, avoided another, and then parried the final blows which “were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.” After meeting each of these strikes Maul was disarmed.
―Darth Maul: Shadow ConspiracySidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master’s blows. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.
Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor.
Maul fought better against a faster, more powerful Sheev with lethal intent. A decade prior he completely bewildered his perceptions with casual lightsaber movements and outclassed him in “mere training exercises.”
TCW Maul is quite noticeably faster than TPM Maul and should overall outclass his former self.
Sheev killed Saesee Tiin and Agen Kolar, two of the most celebrated Jedi duelists in history, before they could react.
―Revenge of the SithA fountain of amethyst energy burst from Mace Windu's fist. "Don't try to resist."
The song of his blade was echoed by green fire from the hands of Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin. Kolar and Tiin closed on Palpatine, blocking the path to the door. Shadows dripped and oozed color, weaving and coiling up office walls slipping over chairs, spreading along the floor.
"Resist? How could I possibly resist?" Still seated at the desk Palpatine shook an empty fist helplessly, the perfect image of a tired, frightened old man. "This is murder, you Jedi traitors! How can I be any threat to you?"
He turned desperately to Saesee Tiin. "Master Tiin-you're the telepath. What am I thinking right now?"
Tiin frowned and cocked his head. His blade dipped. A smear of red-flashing darkness hurtled from behind the desk.
Saesee Tiin's head bounced when it hit the floor.
Smoke curled from the neck, and from the twin stumps of the horns, severed just below the chin.
Kit Fisto gasped, "Saesee!"
The headless corpse, still standing, twisted as its knees buckled, and a thin sigh escaped from its trachea as it folded to the floor.
"It doesn't . . ." Agen Kolar swayed.
His emerald blade shrank away, and the handgrip tumbled from his opening fingers. A small, neat hole in the middle of his forehead leaked smoke, showing light from the back of his head.
". . . hurt . . ."
He pitched forward onto his face, and lay still.
Palpatine stood at the doorway, but the door stayed shut. From his right hand extended a blade the color of fire.
―Revenge of the SithWhich would leave Mace and Agen Kolar-both among the greatest bladesbeings the Jedi Order had ever produced-here on Coruscant in case Sidious did indeed take this opportunity to make a dramatic move.
―Revenge of the Sith"I have chosen four of our best. Master Tiin, Master Kolar, and Master Fisto are all here, in the Temple. They are preparing already."
"What about Skywalker? The chosen one."
"Too much of a risk," Mace replied. "I am the fourth."
[...]
"Anakin, why? The Masters are the best of the Order. What can you possibly do?"
―Revenge of the SithNow Obi-Wan did face him. "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our Order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance."
―The Official Star Wars Fact File #114Saesee's flying practise also helped to hone his Force abilities. By the time he arrived at the Jedi Temple, he was already adept at channeling his Force connection. As he progressed in the Order, he was acknowledged as having one of the strongest Force abilities of all the Jedi.
Yes, Sheev had the element of surprise to an extent over Tiin, but that only goes so far in explaining how he blitzed them. Sheev flew across the room and gutted them before they could react, despite them looking at him, knowing he is the Sith Lord and expecting a fight.
Sheev similarly "flew" at Maul immediately after he was finished holding his dying brother, so Maul wasn’t in a better position than Tiin to defend from Sheev.
In any case, SW.com has already confirmed that he killed them before they could react.
―Taken from starwars.com, Palpatine Biography Gallery, Image 26 of 29Before the Jedi could react, Palpatine sprang into action and killed all of them except Mace Windu.
This also scales Maul much higher than Fisto, who died shortly after Kolar even with Face Windu aiding him.
―Revenge of the SithGreen fans, sheets of purple-And crimson flame.
He was too late.
The green fire faded and winked out; now the lightning was only purple and red.
It is stated by Dave Filoni (and is self-evident) that Savage, who is Maul’s inferior, put up a better fight against Sheev than the Jedi trio combined.
―Dave Filoni from Wrath of the Sith, an installment of “Clone Wars Download” on starwars.com"You know, getting taken out by Sidious is pretty good, ranks up there. He puts up a better fight than the Jedi Council did, I'll say that much for him"
https://www.starwars.com/video/wrath-of-the-sith
It’s stated Sheev “stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard” and that upon creating an opening in Maul’s guard that “was the smallest stumble, easily corrected”, “Sidious saw it-and pounced before Maul could draw himself back.”, Indeed, Sheev “Snarling, he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall.”
—Shadow ConspiracyThe Sith had not survived their centuries of exile by being sentimental, and a student who couldn’t stand against his Master in a mere training exercise was worse than useless—he was a waste of valuable resources better used elsewhere. But Maul had never faced his Master when he was actually trying to kill him.
[...]
But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimeter out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul and Savage made before it developed.
Maul tried to slash past Sidious’s guard, only to find his Master had given ground, causing Maul to extend his arms too far and leave himself slightly unbalanced. It was the smallest stumble, easily corrected, but Sidious saw it—and pounced before Maul could draw himself back. Snarling, he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall, leaving him lying stunned in a heap.
Maul’s Force Defences cannot be ripped through even by Sheev without an opening. Sheev had to engineer the "smallest" chink in Maul’s armor, "pounce" on it and “snarl” as he blasted him.
Arcann is not doing shit with TK. He lacks the skill to create the necessary opening in Maul’s guard and he lacks the power to brute force Maul’s defences. Maul is more skilled and more powerful than Arcann, so he could even crush Arcann’s windpipe ala Obi-Wan if he doesn’t gut him first.
The fact skillz went as far as to suggest Arcann would
Arcann nor anyone he has beaten has a single strength, speed or TK feat that matches up to Maul - thus far all he really has is beating the HoT, which pales in comparison.
Skillz tacitly conceded depth and breadth of Force knowledge, training quality, lightsaber skill and accolades of any description to TPM Maul without resistance by ignoring my first post. He made his methodology clear:
Skillz wrote:Ultimately, however, it’s simply too loose a comparison to analyze characters in terms of an arbitrary force potential/knowledge/experience ratio, as this relationship is not consistent or static across all cases, but actually extremely inconsistent, volatile and dynamic (as shown by Kenobi, Anakin, Luke, and their relative potential to training ratios, along with incalculably many others). [b]It’s much more productive to analyze what Maul actually accomplished and compare it to what Arcann actually accomplished.[/b] Arcann gets no bonus points in the end results for inheriting Valk-Senya genes and training, and neither should Maul for possessing Talzin genes and Sidious training.
Maul also has better feats, which is the only leg Skillz has to stand on. Even if I use Skillz’ own methodology, Maul still wins.
Rebuttal
I am ignoring any "preemptive counters" Skillz made as I did not make any of those arguments. My 1st post only contains facts, so there is nothing to refute. I don’t want anyone to finish reading believing that Skillz made a single salient point which was not countered here - if it was not addressed it is because it was irrelevant.Prove it.The above scans display Arcann using the force numerous times in conjunction with his lightsaber skills to overcome the HoTlander over the course of their fight, (the significance of which I will elaborate on shortly,) but I believe this is one of the primary reasons Arcann will actually win the fight beyond just a comparison of their sheer force power, in which Arcann is in vast excess of Maul, but because Arcann possesses a lightsaber and force defense so robust that, in conjunction with his offensive force usage, will keep Maul at bay indefinitely until he makes a mistake or Arcann simply overpowers him.
There is no reason to doubt the veracity of the "Fact" Files, which per the article I linked are said to contain "Facts" and "Information". So this argument without evidence is dismissed.First and foremost, the Fact File quote you provided to indicate that Yoda and Windu are the most powerful jedi in history by TPM is in-universe, meaning it’s far more subject to scrutiny and interpretation than an out of universe quote
1. It’s an assumption that Dooku had "an aptitude of the force far superior to that of Maul"Regarding Dooku, I think it’s a bit misleading to imply that him growing more powerful under Sidious’ tutelage is indicative of how Maul must have achieved a similar level of superior growth and power. Dooku joined Sidious whilst already having been an immensely well-learned and old/wise Jedi Master, but he had never dabbled in the dark side to nearly the extent that the Banite archives had to offer, and [1]in possession of an aptitude of the force far superior to that of Maul, along with an enormous base of knowledge that had already been developed as a Jedi, [2]would allow him to rapidly develop his abilities upon being introduced to new dark side knowledge. [3]Maul doesn’t have an overall depth of knowledge even approaching that of Dooku given the latter’s decades upon decades of learning and training in the jedi arts, which easily could have supplemented his tutelage under Sidious.
2. Dooku "rapidly developing his abilities" was attributed to what Sheev taught him, per earlier quotes. Dooku having prerequisite attributes which enhanced the rate at which he grew is conjecture.
3. The Banites delved into all aspects of the Force including the Jedi arts, and Maul was trained by Sheev to push his "Force abilities to the extreme.", to be "strong in every way", trained in "all forms of the Sith arts"/"all types of Sith ways"/"trained in [Sidious'] likeness" and as a legitimate Banite Sith who could temporarily break the Rule of Two. The idea Maul’s "depth of knowledge" is not "even approaching that of Dooku" then, is laughable.
Character opinions are fallible, so there is no proof HoT is superior to every Jedi, and you didn’t show feats for any of these Jedi.To get a rough idea of the level Arcann is operating at circa mid-KOTFE, It’s important to note just how powerful the HoTlander is during this point in time. By the end of Act 1/start of Act 2 he (1) is already the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, above the likes of Barsen’thor and Satele Shan
Just because for a time they fought to a “standstill” does not mean they are equals, any more than this quote proves Jinn and Maul were equal:and (2) from the end of Act 2 to the start of Act 3 goes from stalemating Lord Scourge (3)
―The Phantom MenaceStroke for stroke, Qui-Gon and Darth Maul battled about the rim of the melting pit, locked in a combat that seemed endless and forever and could be won by neither.
Then the Sith Lord parried a downstroke, whirled swiftly to the right, and with his back to the Jedi Master, made a blind, reverse lunge. Too late, Qui-Gon recognized the danger. The blade of the Sith Lord's lightsaber caught him directly in the midsection, its brilliant length burning through clothing and flesh and bone.
Scourge taking a knee after the fight proves he lost.
You gave zero feats for Scourge. This doesn’t stack up to Maul, not even close. Also, Vitiate’s skills as a fighter are woeful, which no doubt helped the HoT win the fight aside from a simple power comparison. HoT only needed to be strong enough to resist Vitiate’s powers and close the gap, which really says nothing about the HoT’s abilities outside of his ability to do just that. Vitiate was “no match” because he lost, that’s all.to being too powerful for Vitiate to TP in the heart of the Dark Temple after fighting through swarms of elite Imperial Guards, (4) whereas Scourge “cannot resist [Vitiate’s] direct influence” per his own admission:
Keep in mind that Vitiate was “no match” for the Hero of Tython (despite being capable of mindraping Scourge with his direct influence) despite the fact that the Hero “dissipated his energy saving the weak”: in this case Vitiate is referring to the Hero giving him extra time to gather his energy while the Hero saved his apprentice in the midst of a monumentally powerful dark side nexus.
I do not give a shit about Scourge’s opinion on HoT’s potential, and you can’t prove how much of it is actualised. Nothing in my first post mentioned Maul’s potential and also you yourself disparaged the idea that potential is a worthwhile metric to use - everything you just said is meaningless per both our standards.Between the events of Act 2 and Act 3, Scourge marvels at the sheer power and potential that the Hero of Tython possesses, so much so that he believes had the Hero fully embraced and been trained in the dark side he would be the most powerful force user in Galactic History:
What is important about this quote is that it falls in line with Scourge’s aspirations that the HoT’s son would become an unprecedented power in the galaxy, he is synonymously equating their potential to wield a never-before seen level of power:
I see no reason to think the HoT is "every bit the prodigy that Darth Maul is", your unsourced tangent noted. Darth Maul was selected and trained by Sheev to be an heir to the Banites, and unlike Scourge, Sheev had the ability to judge potential with more accuracy than the "crude" midichlorian tester which the Jedi used. He knew Maul was strong enough to inherit his mantle and trained him accordingly. Darth Bane and Darth Venamis, whose feats I can/have detailed at length, were said by Plagueis to be "anachronisms", so let’s just say that even if we want to play the "potential" game, which my argument is not reliant on, Maul would still win easily.Even by the End of Act 3, we have indications that the Hero of Tython is implied to be every bit the prodigy that Darth Maul is and then some: a prophesied champion of light, wielding potential arguably unrivalled in Galactic History at that point, (at least for what is known by Scourge, which would include Revan, the Dread Masters, and hundreds of Dark Council members and other prodigies across centuries) destined to overcome the Galaxy-wiping threat that is Tenebrae.
―Darth PlagueisAmong the ship's crew, the Togruta, Captain Lah, had been the strongest in the Force, but she was beyond his help by the time he reached her. Had it not been for sloppiness on his part, owing to fatigue and blood loss, and lightning-fast reflexes on hers, the lightsaber might simply have pierced her neck and cervical spinal cord. But she had spun at the moment of impact, and the crimson blade had all but decapitated her. The Zabrak, too, had a slightly higher-than-normal midi-chlorian count, but not high enough to make him Force-sensitive. How different it had been to observe the behavior of the Zabrak's midi-chlorians compared with those of Darth Tenebrous, only two days earlier!
The Jedi routinely performed blood tests to verify the midi-chlorian counts of prospective trainees, but Plagueis had passed beyond the need for such crude measurements. He could not only sense the strength of the Force in another but also perceive the midi-chlorians that individualized Forceful beings. It was that dark side ability that had allowed generations of Sith to locate and initiate recruits. The dispersal of midi-chlorians at the moment of physical death was, for lack of a better term, inexorable. Analogous to his fated confrontation with the Woebegone crew, the moment of death appeared to be somehow fixed in space and time. According to his Sith education, since Captain Lah and the others had been in some sense dead from the moment Plagueis's gaze had alighted on the freighter, it followed that the midi-chlorians that resided in alleged symbiosis with them must have been preparing to be subsumed into the reservoir of life energy that was the Force long before Plagueis had stowed away.
―Darth PlagueisBlood analysis had revealed a high midi-chlorian count, which to Plagueis was further indication that a being could have great potential in the Force and yet still be inept. He wondered: was it Venamis he had felt through the Force after the murder of Tenebrous? A Jedi would have made for a more interesting experimental subject, but a Dark Side Adept was perhaps better suited to his purposes. And soon enough the adjacent bacta tank would contain a Force-resistant Yinchorri, as well.
Immediately following the contest on Sojourn, Plagueis had commanded members of the Sun Guard to locate the starship that had allowed Venamis to infiltrate the Hunters' Moon, then move it and the poisoned Bith to Aborah. Larsh Hill and the other Muuns had been apprised that an intruder had been captured and disposed of, but no more than that. An investigation of the ship had yielded data that might have surprised even Darth Tenebrous, who had provided the ship. It seemed that well before he had confronted Plagueis or learned of his Master's fate, Venamis himself had been scouting for potential apprentices. Plagueis could not help being impressed, though begrudgingly. The young Bith would have done well in Bane's era. Now, however, he was an anachronism, and by extension, Tenebrous also.
Time gaps do not indicate growth. You have not given a source for any on the HoT’s part. Him being a battlemaster is an accolade on par with titans such as Drallig, Katarn and Kas’im, so there’s that?After this point, there is a comparable, if not greater time gap between the end of Act 3 and KOTFE Chapter 1 than the gap between Act 2 and Act 3, and as such the HoT experienced tremendous growth during this time, going toe to toe with galactic threats such as Soa, The Terror From Beyond, the Dread Masters, and Revan Reborn. After these events, he is named the Battlemaster of the Jedi Order
Your claim: “Emperor Vitiate focused all his power in one vessel, remotely, and this possessed host had a level of power worth giving a shit about”and performs his most impressive feat yet during the Civil War on Ziost: Defeating Emperor Vitiate while his spirit was focused/honed in on one vessel, as opposed to dividing his attention and energies across multiple:
We know that the Emperor was only inhabiting one body while fighting the Hero of Tython because it is stated that Vitiate “limited his direct involvement” to the area around the Hero: the city of New Adasta and its immediate surroundings. The Hero of Tython’s objective stated by Lana is to ”get all of [Vitiate’s] pawns --every last soldier, Jedi, and Sith -- to stop their slaughter and chase you into the Heart of New Adasta.” the Hero then essentially leads them all to the electrostatic weapon (set to non-lethal levels) in the center of New Adasta, knocking them all unconscious sans Master Surro, Vitiate’s primary host. We see this play out in the above link.
Your evidence: Conjecture based on what Lana wanted HoT to do, the asinine idea that Vitiate focusing on an entire city somehow limits his attention to one host, and the implication that Vitiate had no other pawns to possess or objectives to split his attention other than the dozen or so soldiers that ran into the room with Surro? And the unsupported assumption that Vitiate was channelling a relevant amount of his undivided power into this vessel? Why is it not possible that Vitiate did not or could not manifest even close to his full power in this vessel? We do not know how powerful the Surro vessel was and you have no way to quantify its power.
Anything here that isn’t sourced is dismissed. If Vitiate is conjuring hordes of monoliths, this hurts your conjecture that he gave undivided focus when fighting through Surro.Ziost Vitiate is operating at ludicrous levels of power, as even at the start of Ziost Vitiate is able to mind dominate and possess hundreds, if not thousands of Sith and Imperial troops, continuously feeding on their energy to grow more powerful, along with the Sixth line (recognized as “an elite cadre of militaristic Jedi” in the SWTOR codex) and the entire Republic Fleet Saresh sends to Ziost (which was large enough to incite planet-wide conflict). Shortly after Vitiate gains the power to conjure hordes of monoliths on the side, which are described as follows:
So Vitiate was powerful enough (while multitasking) to conjure hordes of dark side monstrosities that transcend the alchemical efforts of all prior force users, thus displaying a superiority of intellect, knowledge, fortitude, and power to all prior Sith Lords/alchemists. This is further corroborated by the codex making it clear that monoliths ”plainly illustrate the immeasurable power” of Vitiate, and he only grew stronger in the events leading up to his defeat at the hands of the Hero of Tython.
The syntax does not necessitate that the Outlander is Valk’s "most powerful opponent [ever]", it just says that he is his most powerful opponent. Also the Outlander can be a non-Force user, which begs the question what it means by "most powerful" - certainly not Force power.Shortly after these events and Vitiate’s consumption of Ziost, KOTFE rolls around and the Hero of Tython is dubbed Valkorion’s “most powerful opponent,” an emphatic accolade if applied to the most powerful opponents Valkorion has ever faced, including the likes of Revan Reborn, though this isn’t really necessary to cement the HoTlander’s status.
Source for this growth? Also, Arcann chaining Force attacks into combat and finding openings is not the same as penetrating one’s Force defences outright, and by the end of a losing duel where one’s reserves are wearing thin it becomes easier to penetrate those defences. Arcann did not "casually" pull the Outlander onto his blade, he did so after wearing him down.The HoTlander undergoes an unquantifiable amount of growth between KOTFE Chapter 2 and 8, at which point he finally faces Arcann, Emperor of the Eternal Throne. As shown at the beginning of my post, Arcann completely overwhelms the Outlander, ragdolling him repeatedly and generally having the upper hand the entire fight. If the HoTlander rejects Valkorion’s assistance, Arcann casually force pulls the Outlander and impales him, as shown here:
It’s good that you plan to explain properly why we should care about Arcann, because from where I’m sitting, I don’t see how his skill with blocking lightning is going to help him survive against Maul, who never chooses to employ the ability.Even if HoTlander accepts Valkorion’s boon of power, Arcann is able to defend against the ensuing lightning tsunami for an extended period of time and is relatively unphased upon being struck by it and sent plummeting hundreds if not thousands of feet to the ground. As I mentioned in my introduction, a much more nuanced analysis of the impressiveness of this feat will take place in a later post.
Proof?1. Arcann’s fighting style is perfectly suited to counter Maul’s, as his ability to chain powerful force attacks in combat combined with his impenetrable defense will serve as a perfect counter to Maul’s aggressive assault, mainly because Arcann has a sizeable power edge over Maul.
The former has been addressed, and the latter remains unproven.2. The HoTlander is an unprecedented prodigy with unrivalled force power in Scourge’s eyes, putting his potential on par with or above the likes of Revan, the Dread Masters, and any other force prodigy Scourge came across over the course of 3 centuries, and has feats and lines of scaling that arguably rival or exceed Maul’s to boot.
Not that beating the Outlander or surviving Valk’s lightning stream does anything to support your argument.3. Arcann in the middle of KOTFE is capable of completely outmaneuvering and overpowering the HoTlander, and is able to block the energies of HoTlanderkorion for an extended period of time and tank the impact of the attack and subsequent fall with no visible injury.
Page 1 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
- SS - The Tyrannical Ten - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Krayt (Azronger)
- SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Darth Plagueis (The Ellimist) vs Arcann (xSupremeSkillz)
- SS - The Apprenticeship Tournament - Arcann (xSupremeSkillz) vs Darth Tyranus (DarthAnt66)
- Arcann, Darth Marr & Darth Malgus vs Count Dooku, Savage Oppress & Darth Maul
- Revan, Hero of Tython & Emperor's Wrath vs Obi-Wan Kenobi, Darth Maul, Starkiller & Arcann
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