Darth Nyriss vs Kyle Katarn (JK: DF2)

• Nyriss is as she appears in Revan. Katarn is as he appears in his fight with Jerec in Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II.
  
• They start at a 20m distance in the pictured location.
  
• They fight in character.
  

In-sidiousvader wrote:I will defbunk Jerec scaling, but suffice it to say, tanking a blast from an opponent who was not trying to kill you attacking you means absolutely nothing

LSDMB wrote:

In-sidiousvader wrote:I will defbunk Jerec scaling, but suffice it to say, tanking a blast from an opponent who was not trying to kill you attacking you means absolutely nothing

I'd argue it means something, but the question of what that something constitutes is up in the air.

DC77 wrote:Regardless of whether his intent was to kill or not it's irrelevant, he was still doing everything in his power to subdue Kyle, and tanking hits from somebody who is Vader+ is incredibly worth mentioning. Jerec's fallible and arrogant commentary at a later stage where he was more powerful doesn't concern me.

Quotes showing Jerec was holding back in any case?

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Quorian Debatist wrote:

DC77 wrote:Regardless of whether his intent was to kill or not it's irrelevant, he was still doing everything in his power to subdue Kyle, and tanking hits from somebody who is Vader+ is incredibly worth mentioning. Jerec's fallible and arrogant commentary at a later stage where he was more powerful doesn't concern me.

Quotes showing Jerec was holding back in any case?

Excuse my laziness in not getting a quote, but it's 9:37 PM at the time of writing this, and I'm wide awake, so I apologize in advance if this doesn't convince you with my wide awake rhetoric.

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Why pray tell do you need a specific quote that Jerec was holding back if what our squirrelly friend ISVader is saying is correct?

If Jerec was operating at an "omnipotent" range, and could cause cosmic consequences worth of damage, then why do you need proof that he was withholding his power? Should that not go without saying? Or should we assume that every attack that Jerec was sending off was the full power he could currently wield? If that's the case...

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... and we do believe he was operating at full power, then that brings up the question of how potent Jerec actually was, and how much of what he did should be relegated to hyperbole instead? If we start beating down that door, then what is the point of an amp?

I know this is Star Wars, and you think you can win arguments by a lack of specific quotes being used, but sometimes an amount of common sense and logic should be applied to make sense of the situations. And in this situation, do you think it a reasonable request to ask ISV of a quote where a Vader level being - with sole access to the most powerful nexus in the galaxy - was holding back when he attacked a neophyte Kyle Katarn, and failed to put him down? Or do you believe we can reason this down without assuming Kyle Katarn can tank impossibly powerful attacks that on paper should disintegrate 99.9 percent of people in Star Wars?

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I'm not saying we should exclude it, I'm saying we should make sense of it. We should not move this feat to the top of the mountain and declare that his new base; we should understand the consequences this creates, and understand the factors that went into it.

The kids at the docks would call this a "high end feat," and while that might be foreign to you, that means that it's a feat that goes against his norm. And in your context, it especially goes against his norm. What are his feats in the game underlined words and what feat doesn't belong in the same tier as the others? You see what I'm saying here?

So with that being said, do ISV's statements make sense? I haven't looked into the feat myself today, but considering you didn't question him - only questioned him holding back - I have been under the assumption you have no issue with the context he presented, just of his narrative of Jerec holding back.

So again, does it make sense an omnipotent level being was holding back by blasting Kyle and not killing him, while trying to turn Kyle?

If so, all that does is destroy the no-limits aspect of the feat itself. It doesn't erase the feat like you fear it does. It just makes you have to approach the instance with a little more tact than you're accustomed to.


TL;DR: This took longer to write than I wanted it to, but I'm lazy, and I was drinking Irish Coffee today so not purely alert I guess. I was also eating pretzel crackers and water, and I stopped to look for sheets as well. You see, I like to change my sheets every couple of days so everything stays clean. This allows me to sleep and cure myself of possible laziness, and allows my muscles to grow as I sleep.

I apologize if this took longer than you were expecting, but I never decided to write this until I clicked this thread for the first time, so you'll have to forgive me for not giving you a heads up on when it'd be done.

Also Jerec/Kyle stuff was said.

Greysentinel365 wrote:Nyriss oneshots again

Azronger wrote:

Greysentinel365 wrote:Nyriss oneshots again

Why?

Greysentinel365 wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Greysentinel365 wrote:Nyriss oneshots again

Why?

Feats for Kyle being above the Jedi Exile?

Azronger wrote:

Greysentinel365 wrote:

Azronger wrote:

Greysentinel365 wrote:Nyriss oneshots again

Why?

Feats for Kyle being above the Jedi Exile?

Not seeing why we have to bring the Exile into this. The entire fight took place on a potent dark side nexus, which is made note of in the book several times. We have a much more direct way of comparing Nyriss and Kyle:

As she dragged the Jedi’s unconscious body into the nearby cell, one of the guards drew his weapon, while the other rushed over and picked his discarded blaster up from where Revan had kicked it aside.

Scourge nodded at the guards. In response to his silent command they crept to the foot of the stairs and peered up toward the door above.

A burst of purple lightning arced down the steps, catching both men in the chest. They barely had time to scream before they were turned into charred and smoking husks.

Scourge took a step back, knowing exactly who had been responsible for unleashing the fury of the dark side against the hapless guards.

Nyriss made her way slowly down the stairs, the outspread fingers of her left hand still crackling with electricity. In her right hand she held her lightsaber, the blade humming softly. By the time she reached the bottom, Meetra had emerged from the nearby cell.

Star Wars: The Old Republic - Revan

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(22:50)

The Dark Jedi drew upon the energy that leaked out of the Valley, gave it shape, and hurled the construct at Kyle's chest. The blast threw the Rebel backward onto the loading ramp. He staggered and had just managed to reestablish his footing when a second, more powerful explosion hurled him back into the cargo ship.

The lock sensed his presence, and the hatch started to close. The ramp disintegrated. The ship tilted away, and fell toward the rocks below.

Star Wars: Dark Forces - Jedi Knight

A metal ramp is more durable than a human body. Jerec's attack disintegrated the ramp, while Nyriss' only turned two people into charred husks while amplified by a dark side nexus. Then factor in that telekinesis in inherently less lethal than lightning, and Jerec's feat should come off as much more impressive (his attack, Force destruction, is a telekinetic in nature, not an energy blast like Force lightning). Kyle tanking it means he can probably shrug off Nyriss' efforts and the only chance she would have of hurting him with the Force would be through charging her lightning for twenty seconds, but in that time Kyle would have had time to gut her with his lightsaber.