Kas'im vs Shaak Ti vs Jaden Korr

IdrisianGraecus wrote:Korr >> Kas’Im >>>>> Shaak

Greysentinel365 wrote:Lol. Ti had Anakin and Kenobi to aid her in the "ocean feat" and after she's the one hunching over exhausted while they're fine.

Even then she never actually holds the water at all. She just pulls the rubble towards the door.

And this exhausts her.

She's so powerful you guys.

CaptainMarTuuk wrote:but anyone that's read his books can tell you he has more anti-feats than feats.

CaptainMarTuuk wrote:Do you remember that those Clones were #1 horribly deranged and entirely mentally unstable except from Soldier? #2 extremely diseased and dying? And #3 he had serious trouble fighting them. 

Also, Soldier (Jaden Clone) was the one who 'destroyed' the Hospital, and he got floored every time he fought Soldier. Korr's only other source for feats is Jedi: Academy, and in-game feats are always iffy to use because they largely depend on the player.

Spoiler:

Their condition does matter lmao. They were unstable and on the verge of death and Korr still almost lost or outright lost every time. That's like getting beaten up by a demented dude with stage 3 cancer. It isn't impressive. It's just sad. I don't particularly care that you think or was debunked, because it's wrong so saying that has no substance.

I thought you were talking about when the hospital was like actually destroyed, not just a room in the hospital. That's a pathetic feat, most Jedi have something equal to or better than that. 

know it doesn't make semse, but the entire book didn't make sense. It had nothing to do with his relative strength, although he was the strongest

TK: Held up the pressure of Kamino's ocean. Someone said Anakin and Obi-Wan helped but I definitely do not remember that lol.

Consitor Sato: Felucia was basically an extension of her body.

Beast Mastery: Tamed the largest known Sarlacc in the Galaxy.

Tutaminus: Blocked a Lightsaber while extremely injured.

She knew Force Stealth

Force Heal: was able to heal herself from an otherwise fatal wound.

Kinetite: Was able to blast away Galen Marek.

Speed: She was able to dodge dozens of blaster bolts at once and run down a building.

Strength: Shattered a Magnaguards head with her knee.

Sabers: Contends with Grievous while injured, fends off 8+ Magnaguards simultaneously, and was a master of Ataru and Makashi with ample knowledge of Jar'Kai.

Misc: Her Togrutan Montrals boosted her Senses, making it night impossible to sneak up on her. The book also makes it clear that Shaak Ti committed suicide because she knew that she had to die for Galen to return safely, but if he killed her then he would turn to the Dark Side and thus would not go on to redeem himself and end up being the spark for the Rebellion, which would eventually save the galaxy.




 

If you can't back up your point, then it would be wise to revaluate. I completely disagree with his "debunking" because it's sloppy, illogical, and just doesn't make any sense. Also, you say I'm presenting false information and then go on to say that Runner blew up the entire hospital. No. He didn't even cause enough damage to affect the structural integrity. He bent some doors and slammed people/objects into walls. That's not exceptional. I like how you say I conceded when I was simply quoting the very book it came from, and stating my opinion on the sloppy writing, yet I'm not the one who refuses to continue. Real class act there.

Riptide wrote:The larger of the two grinned. Jaden recognized him now, behind the beard and hair. He was a clone of Jaden’s Master, Kyle Katarn. Anger poured off both clones, anger born of years of frustration and mistreatment. It hit Jaden like a hailstorm. His elbows bent. He was failing, failing.
But he refused to give in.
He grunted, summoned a reserve of strength, extended his arms fully, pushed back against the clones, stood up, and held his ground.

MasterCilghal wrote:

If you can't back up your point, then it would be wise to revaluate. I completely disagree with his "debunking" because it's sloppy, illogical, and just doesn't make any sense. Also, you say I'm presenting false information and then go on to say that Runner blew up the entire hospital. No. He didn't even cause enough damage to affect the structural integrity. He bent some doors and slammed people/objects into walls. That's not exceptional. I like how you say I conceded when I was simply quoting the very book it came from, and stating my opinion on the sloppy writing, yet I'm not the one who refuses to continue. Real class act there.

I can back up my points, simply I didn’t want to because when a debate makes me angry I recognize it’s time to stay away from it. But since you think I cannot back up my points, here I am. 
1- If you don’t think Greysentinel did a good job then I encourage you to present a counter argument, otherwise what he says still stands (and atm I agree with him). 
2- The book notes an entire area was destroyed with such strength it seemed like an explosion. Again, an explosion of that causes far more damage than to destroy a simple room. I never argued he destroyed the entire hospital, or at least it wasn’t what I meant, but he did devastate a portion of it (the triage area). You haven’t taken 2 more factors into account: first the Kyle clone, Runner, has also destroyed half a building by sending a mere speeder against it: 

Spoiler:

Secondly, Runner was not operating at his full power when he devastated the hospital (as he did that with relative ease) but was clearly doing so against Korr: 

Riptide wrote:The larger of the two grinned. Jaden recognized him now, behind the beard and hair. He was a clone of Jaden’s Master, Kyle Katarn. Anger poured off both clones, anger born of years of frustration and mistreatment. It hit Jaden like a hailstorm. His elbows bent. He was failing, failing.
But he refused to give in.
He grunted, summoned a reserve of strength, extended his arms fully, pushed back against the clones, stood up, and held his ground.

Add in Soldier (whom as you correctly said is more powerful than Runner) and what Korr withstood was far beyond building level destruction. 
Lastly, sorry For my behavior, I admit I shouldn’t have said that, but many of my points were not addressed.

MasterCilghal wrote:CaptainMarTuuk i think you should present your counter argument to Grey, not to me. Even then, I don’t feel what you presented is enough to convince me Ti wins this fight. Korr has significantly better feats if that’s the best Ti brings to the table.

JCaptainMarTuuk wrote:

MasterCilghal wrote:CaptainMarTuuk i think you should present your counter argument to Grey, not to me. Even then, I don’t feel what you presented is enough to convince me Ti wins this fight. Korr has significantly better feats if that’s the best Ti brings to the table.

Korr doesn't have feats even remotely close to her TK, Tutaminus, or Heal and that's just 3 powers lmao.

Riptide wrote:Reports from inside say they’re heading up the stairs,” he translated. “The lifts were damaged in some kind of explosion. There are a lot of dead and wounded.”

Dooku had taught Grievous well, and Grievous had taught his elite well. Coupled with Dooku's coaching, their programming in the seven classic forms of lightsaber dueling - in the Jedi arts - made them lethal opponents. But they were not invincible, not even Grievous, because they could be confused by unpredictability, and they had no understanding of finesse. A player of dejarik could memorize all the classic openings and countermoves, and still not be a master of the game. Defeat often came at the hands of less experienced players who knew nothing about the traditional strategies. A professional fighter, a combat artist, could be defeated by a cantina brawler who knew nothing about form but everything about ending a conflict quickly, without a thought to winning gracefully or elegantly. Enslavement to form opened one to defeat by the unforeseen. This was often the failing of trained duelists, and it would be the failing of the Jedi Order.

- Labyrinth of Evil

Labyrinth of Evil wrote:To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...
The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike.

MasterCilghal wrote:

JCaptainMarTuuk wrote:

MasterCilghal wrote:CaptainMarTuuk i think you should present your counter argument to Grey, not to me. Even then, I don’t feel what you presented is enough to convince me Ti wins this fight. Korr has significantly better feats if that’s the best Ti brings to the table.

Korr doesn't have feats even remotely close to her TK, Tutaminus, or Heal and that's just 3 powers lmao.

You haven't addressed most of the arguments i’ve presented for Korr (such as the speeder feat). But having said that, let’s address all you have presented. 

As for Korr, i found evidence that the “explosion” went beyond simply a room, as the novel later mentioned the lifts themselves were damaged: 
“

Riptide wrote:Reports from inside say they’re heading up the stairs,” he translated. “The lifts were damaged in some kind of explosion. There are a lot of dead and wounded.”

Furthermore, looking closer at the original quote I found out it mentions the triage area was devastated. The triage area is usually an entire wing of a hospital. So yeah, it is pretty damn impressive. As I mentioned earlier, both clones were operating with significantly greater effort than than when Runner devastated that hospital. 
Now let’s get to Ti. 

1- force stealth, healing, and that kind of tutaminis (which was likely a form of force shield) are not all that important in a fight. The first can only be used under very specific circumstances, the second can only be used if she has time to concentrate, while the third is only a last resort that Ti will employ only if she is about to be defeated. It’s power levels and overall feats that matter the most. 

2- Grey was right about the ocean feat. The part in which she sent the ocean back was achieved mostly  with the help of Anakin and Obi Wan: 
1-Anakin, Obi Wan and Ti combine ther powers to push back most of the ocean’s pression: 




2- Ti adds her own strength, but only to move back the rubble and the remaining amount of water, which indicates most of work was done by the three combined: 




3- to make everything all the more embarrassing for Ti ,she looks exhausted after this exertion, whereas Anakin and Obi Wan don’t: 



This feat is not nearly as impressive as you make it to be, as  Most of the work was done by Anakin and Obi wan. 

3- now let’s address the feat in Labirinth of evil/OG clone wars. Ti holding off an entire army of guards is hardly an impressive feat. For instance, before that she was shown to struggle against a single magna guard and only defeats it after a good fight: 

https://youtu.be/64-3talVkUA
( see around minute 6:13) 
This happens while Ti wields a single lightsaber. However, as soon as she gets the staff, she is able to hold off a group of magna guards. How can we explain this? There are two possible explanations: 
1- the guards are not trained to deal with dual blades, at least not with that specific type of training, which is corroborated by the description of the novel LOE: 

Dooku had taught Grievous well, and Grievous had taught his elite well. Coupled with Dooku's coaching, their programming in the seven classic forms of lightsaber dueling - in the Jedi arts - made them lethal opponents. But they were not invincible, not even Grievous, because they could be confused by unpredictability, and they had no understanding of finesse. A player of dejarik could memorize all the classic openings and countermoves, and still not be a master of the game. Defeat often came at the hands of less experienced players who knew nothing about the traditional strategies. A professional fighter, a combat artist, could be defeated by a cantina brawler who knew nothing about form but everything about ending a conflict quickly, without a thought to winning gracefully or elegantly. Enslavement to form opened one to defeat by the unforeseen. This was often the failing of trained duelists, and it would be the failing of the Jedi Order.

- Labyrinth of Evil

2- the magnaguards have an extremely inconsistent track record. For instance 3 of them are apparently Obi Wan’s ability to defeat, yet Fisto is able to literally blitz a few of them in LOE: 

Labyrinth of Evil wrote:To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs...
The speed of the train saw to the rest, ultimately whisking the droids into the canyon like insects blown from the windscreen of a speeder bike.

A possibile explanation for this could be the fact that there are different models, but considering the ones Fisto blitzed are the same that Ti later faces it’s not looking good for her, not at all. 

Overall, Ti has nothing that compares with Korr. His feats are better (especially if we take JA into the equation as well), his accolades are superior and Ti’s most impressive feats are riddled in circumstances that make it impossible to quantify them.

I don't know about you, but when it shows only Shaak holding it back, even after showing Anakin and Obi-Wan were doing something, that generally indicates that she was doing the brunt of the work.

Kit Blitzed 2 Magnas, Shaak fought the army, but you're also forgetting the fact that she had been running all over Courscant, fighting off Grievous and Magnaguards along the way. Plus, she can be seen leading Magnaguards away from Palp, or running back to help defend him. She didn't just drop into the battle fully prepared and do it, she was probably exhausted and yet she still takes out a ton of them.

I really don't care what Korr has for accolades.