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Blade_of_DorinLevel One
Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 9:27 am
R1: Sabers Only
R2: Force Only
R3: All-Out
- Standard Equipment for Kun
R2: Force Only
R3: All-Out
- Standard Equipment for Kun
GuestGuest
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 12:14 pm
Interesting. Galen is far more powerful but I can definitely see Kun winning if he abuses sorcery and other haxx abilities.
NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 2:33 pm
1.Starkiller curbstomps.
2.Kun via sorcery.
3.Either way.
2.Kun via sorcery.
3.Either way.
KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 2:35 pm
How do you have a fight between Kun and SK going either way but you have SK getting passed Revan in the Force guantlet thread?DC77 (Reborn) wrote:1.Starkiller curbstomps.
2.Kun via sorcery
3.Either way.
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 2:40 pm
If you'd actually bothered to read the thread in question you'd know I also said he could lose to Kun there as well. This is due to esoteric abilities, SK shit stomps him conventionally.
- KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 2:46 pm
"Could die at 4 due to esoteric abilities. If not he clears till 9"DC77 (Reborn) wrote:If you'd actually bothered to read the thread in question you'd know I also said he could lose to Kun there as well. This is due to esoteric abilities, SK shit stomps him conventionally.
The way this is worded it makes it seem the esoteric abilities argument only applies to 4(Kun).
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 2:48 pm
Yes because Kun's esoteric abilities are the only one's I see overriding a power/skill disparity.
- KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 2:57 pm
Revan's sorcery and esoteric abilities are greater than Kun's imo. The dude created the thought bomb ritual and could teleport. At the very least they're comparable. Thats ignoring the fact that Revan is laughably more powerful than Kun.DC77 (Reborn) wrote:Yes because Kun's esoteric abilities are the only one's I see overriding a power/skill disparity.
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 3:14 pm
You gonna provide examples of Revan using sorcery in combat to overwhelm a superior foe or not? Because otherwise this post is just a bunch of empty characters filling up my screen.
- KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 3:45 pm
Examples of sorcery in combat? No. However think about this; Kun didn't even understand the complexities behind the ritual that immortalized his spirit. Darth Revan on the other hand created one of the most powerful rituals of sith sorcery ever made in the Thought Bomb Ritual. This doesn't even include the centuries worth of knowledge he gathered from Vitiate. Now back to your point of combat applicable sorcery, I ask you which Kun are we referring to? TotJ Kun never used sorcery against a superior foe. He used it to incapacitate but not kill Aleema as I recall but when it came to facing his strongest Foe in Vodo it was purely a saber duel. So what makes you think Kun is any more likely to use sorcery than Revan is? Revan is also more likely to use esoteric techniques than Kun since he has actually been seen using techniques like teleportation in fights.DC77 (Reborn) wrote:You gonna provide examples of Revan using sorcery in combat to overwhelm a superior foe or not? Because otherwise this post is just a bunch of empty characters filling up my screen.
- NevesYtneves (DC77)Level Seven
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 3:52 pm
A) Kun used sorcery against Luke in JA, to great effect.
B) So... you've proven Revan has extensive knowledge on sorcery. Great, still waiting on examples of him using it in combat. Never mind you conceded on that so your argument is irrelevant.
B) So... you've proven Revan has extensive knowledge on sorcery. Great, still waiting on examples of him using it in combat. Never mind you conceded on that so your argument is irrelevant.
- KingofBladesLevel Three
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 3:57 pm
He didn't have a physical body in JA so had no choice but to use sorcery. When Kun was in his physical form he hasn't shown any tendency to use sorcery in combat. The one time he did he failed to kill someone that's drastically inferior to SK in Aleema. He seems to prefer engaging in saber duels when he has a physical form.DC77 (Reborn) wrote:A) Kun used sorcery against Luke in JA, to great effect.
B) So... you've proven Revan has extensive knowledge on sorcery. Great, still waiting on examples of him using it in combat. Never mind you conceded on that so your argument is irrelevant.
- Blade_of_DorinLevel One
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 16th 2019, 9:36 pm
Would anyone care to share their reasoning as to why they think Kun or the Killer of Stars wins?
- GuestGuest
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 17th 2019, 3:05 am
Starkiller has far better environmental feats and scaling (e.g. the destruction of The Salvation, being >>> Vader, etc), but Kun was able to beat JA Luke (all be it with Durron's help and a DS nexus) with sorcery and Starkiller hasn't shown he has any knowledge on how to defend against it, so I can easily see Kun winning through it. If Kun isn't able to abuse sorcery he gets slaughtered.
- Blade_of_DorinLevel One
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 17th 2019, 12:26 pm
NotAA3 wrote:Starkiller has far better environmental feats and scaling (e.g. the destruction of The Salvation, being >>> Vader, etc), but Kun was able to beat JA Luke (all be it with Durron's help and a DS nexus) with sorcery and Starkiller hasn't shown he has any knowledge on how to defend against it, so I can easily see Kun winning through it. If Kun isn't able to abuse sorcery he gets slaughtered.
- MPModerator | Champion of Darkness
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 17th 2019, 12:44 pm
NotAA3 wrote:Starkiller has far better environmental feats and scaling (e.g. the destruction of The Salvation, being >>> Vader, etc), but Kun was able to beat JA Luke (all be it with Durron's help and a DS nexus) with sorcery and Starkiller hasn't shown he has any knowledge on how to defend against it, so I can easily see Kun winning through it. If Kun isn't able to abuse sorcery he gets slaughtered.
So SK can counter any Sith sorcery apart from Kun's?
Decaf_Beverages
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 18th 2019, 3:12 pm
KingofBlades wrote:He didn't have a physical body in JA so had no choice but to use sorcery. When Kun was in his physical form he hasn't shown any tendency to use sorcery in combat. The one time he did he failed to kill someone that's drastically inferior to SK in Aleema. He seems to prefer engaging in saber duels when he has a physical form.DC77 (Reborn) wrote:A) Kun used sorcery against Luke in JA, to great effect.
B) So... you've proven Revan has extensive knowledge on sorcery. Great, still waiting on examples of him using it in combat. Never mind you conceded on that so your argument is irrelevant.
Aleema was also a sorcerer herself though, and thus likely had a much higher than average resistance to sorcery, resistances that Kun himself boasted. Although Aleema was most certainly much less powerful than Starkiller in raw power, she was a much more capable sorcerer and thats seems to be the only thing that matters in defence against such abilities. As we see in Jedi Academy, you cannot brute force a defence against capable sorcerers.
There was nothing that suggests trying to kill Aleema either. Because Aleema's own blasts were more than capable of turning a human into a skeleton months into training, and Kun's, even when completely uncontrolled and before he killed Nadd, were able to disintegrate Massassi Warriors, its likely that if Kun had wanted Aleema dead and said blast actually connected, she would have been turned into a crispy little thot-fry.
You are right in that Kun prefers saber combat, however when desperate like against Odan Urr, he seems to use it as a trump card.
The EllimistLevel Five
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 19th 2019, 5:28 am
When has Exar Kun used sorcery in combat? He does it in JA, sure, but the fact that he doesn't use it in TotJ leads me to think that he either learned those abilities / gained the power through the millenia (especially given the ritual) or when at full power finds conventional attacks more practical (or both).
Starkiller blew up the Salvataion, and his weaker original self caught Sidious's lightning. He destroys Kun.
Starkiller blew up the Salvataion, and his weaker original self caught Sidious's lightning. He destroys Kun.
_________________
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
- Decaf_Beverages
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 19th 2019, 9:58 am
The Ellimist wrote:When has Exar Kun used sorcery in combat? He does it in JA, sure, but the fact that he doesn't use it in TotJ leads me to think that he either learned those abilities / gained the power through the millenia (especially given the ritual) or when at full power finds conventional attacks more practical (or both).
I know for a fact I've told you this Elm, but this interpretation of Kun's abilities is highly incorrect
He uses his abilities against both Aleema and Odan Urr in combat. Both while largely pre-prime and while both would have had considereable knowldge of how to counter his abilities, a skill which Starkiller would have little to no experience at.
The idea he couldn't use sorceries in combat when people canonically inferior to him such as Aleema and Darth Andeddu were capable of it is silly. The idea that he learned them over the millenia is also a little odd, as not only did he have no way to gain new knowledge over the eons of his imprisonment, but he was stated to have been slumbering most of that time, only waking during times of extreme force disturbance at close proximity, such as the events of SWTOR on Yavin IV. The ritual wouldnt have expanded his personal skill either, and what power it did give him was stripped away, but thats another discussion itself.
The idea that he GAINED abilities as a spirit is especially silly, as it was outright stated he couldn't use the vast majority of the abilities he could while alive, even with Kyp Durron or Gantoris as puppets.
Now I grant you, Kun doesn't choose to use a lot of these abilities because he is, fundamentally, a duelist in character. However when aggravated or of the belief he is facing an inferior opponent, force abuse is generally the go to.
- The EllimistLevel Five
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 21st 2019, 5:21 am
Decaf_Beverages wrote:
I know for a fact I've told you this Elm, but this interpretation of Kun's abilities is highly incorrect
He uses his abilities against both Aleema and Odan Urr in combat. Both while largely pre-prime and while both would have had considereable knowldge of how to counter his abilities, a skill which Starkiller would have little to no experience at.
Feats for either?
The idea he couldn't use sorceries in combat when people canonically inferior to him such as Aleema and Darth Andeddu were capable of it is silly.
How is Andeddu "canonically inferior" to Exar Kun?
The idea that he learned them over the millenia is also a little odd, as not only did he have no way to gain new knowledge over the eons of his imprisonment, but he was stated to have been slumbering most of that time, only waking during times of extreme force disturbance at close proximity, such as the events of SWTOR on Yavin IV.
That doesn't necessarily contradict his claim to Luke about having a long time to practice, given that he did wake up for parts of that millenia, and even just having like 50 years would've been a very long time in relative terms.
The ritual wouldnt have expanded his personal skill either, and what power it did give him was stripped away, but thats another discussion itself.
How was the power stripped away?
The idea that he GAINED abilities as a spirit is especially silly, as it was outright stated he couldn't use the vast majority of the abilities he could while alive, even with Kyp Durron or Gantoris as puppets.
How can you compare a hypothetical living JA Kun to TotJ Kun? A living JA Kun would have:
- A massive draining-ritual power boost, pending your elaboration on why that was stripped away.
- Some part of thousands of years to practice.
- Thousands of years of sitting on a potent dark side nexus.
- The precedent that nearly every Sith Lord that comes back to life is more powerful than when they died.
AncientPowerSuspect Hero | Level Four
Re: Starkiller vs Exar Kun
September 21st 2019, 9:15 pm
I've proven literally all of what you're arguing against to Decaf here and pretending I didn't.
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