Andeddu Wank

Does Andeddu qualify for Traya's Ancient Sith>Nihilus quote?

VictreebelVictr wrote:Does Andeddu qualify for Traya's Ancient Sith>Nihilus quote?

Traya's Ancient Sith > Nihilus conclusion is incorrect and directly contradicted by OOU quotes of high canonicity, i doubt Andeddu would be included anyway as im pretty sure shes specifically referring to the big influential Dark Lords

Vaelias wrote:

VictreebelVictr wrote:Does Andeddu qualify for Traya's Ancient Sith>Nihilus quote?

Traya's Ancient Sith > Nihilus conclusion is incorrect and directly contradicted by OOU quotes of high canonicity, i doubt Andeddu would be included anyway as im pretty sure shes specifically referring to the big influential Dark Lords  

Which quotes contradict both her's and Avellone's?

Andeddu being an essence transfer instead of a spirit is terrible so I might remove him from my list where he was above Sidious. Aside from that his essence controlling Gerlun (who is absolute fodder) could briefly trick Wyyrlok in a mind trap. If he had his original body he could be much stronger and at least above GM Luke but probably still nowhere near Kun as if he was so powerful back then he should feasibly have been a spirit which is much more efficient than an essence transfer orb.

Vaelias wrote:

VictreebelVictr wrote:Does Andeddu qualify for Traya's Ancient Sith>Nihilus quote?

Traya's Ancient Sith > Nihilus conclusion is incorrect and directly contradicted by OOU quotes of high canonicity,

Feel free to prove that in any meaningful way.

I feel Trayas quote about the Ancient Sith was meant to be more of a collective rather than aby individual Sith. Makes more sense that way then say Ludo being able to replicate what Nihilus has done or even Simus if people really wanna go there.

Sadow with his meditation sphere nearly toppled the Republic and with his Corsair star ship could cause solar flares and make even super red giants go supernova. Ancient Sith even had on the spot rituals like the one Bane used to purge a planet of life.


So yeah, with that being said I feel that's what Traya is mody likely referring to than any individual Lord, although that's not to necessarily say that isn't a possibility.

The Merchant wrote:I feel Trayas quote about the Ancient Sith was meant to be more of a collective rather than aby individual Sith. Makes more sense that way then say Ludo being able to replicate what Nihilus has done or even Simus if people really wanna go there.

Sadow with his meditation sphere nearly toppled the Republic and with his Corsair star ship could cause solar flares and make even super red giants go supernova. Ancient Sith even had on the spot rituals like the one Bane used to purge a planet of life.


So yeah, with that being said I feel that's what Traya is mody likely referring to than any individual Lord, although that's not to necessarily say that isn't a possibility.

Yeah, well she says "some" if I am not mistaken. Therefore, she has certain individuals in mind when she says it. Plus, she hypes the hell out of them individually, so it is very possible that Naga Sadow>Nihilus.

In fact, there are many different sources hyping Sith Lords and such. Legacy was just a huge ancient Jedi Exile support. Karness Muur is a living representation of the power he and his fellow colleagues.

Yeah, she does say "some." So it is possible she was referring to individuals, but ad I mentioned said individuals can have access to crazy stuff if Sadow is any measure to go by.

I do wanna say from a RL perspective the author of Supernatural encounters actually dabbled a bit on Trayas quote. He said something along the lines of that, when Traya said Nihilus would rival some of the ancient Sith, he asked which ones? Which Ancient Sith could kill whole worlds? Ofc that isn't anything official, but it might suggest what is /probably/ the case... which is KOTOR 3 was going to paint the Ancient Sith in a faaar different light then ehat we got.


But yeah, Muur is a good point to bring up. The spirits of Kun and Ragnos being a threat to Post JA Luke also good points as well, I am hesitant with that line of thinking because then you could very well place these individuals above ROTS Palpatine. Dark Empire era Palps would still be on top considering what it took to take him down, so there is a very large gap from him and ROTS.

Well, if I do remember, Sith spirits effed with TPM Sidious. Considering that living Ragnos>casual Sith Spirits, Ragnos can be seen as roughly Plagueis level.

No, Ragnos appeared to Plagueis pre-TPM on Korriban. Then between ANH and ESB, Sheev was 'cowed' by the Dark Lords(he provides the context of them being the Dark Lords in BOS).

The Merchant wrote:I feel Trayas quote about the Ancient Sith was meant to be more of a collective rather than aby individual Sith. Makes more sense that way then say Ludo being able to replicate what Nihilus has done or even Simus if people really wanna go there.

Sadow with his meditation sphere nearly toppled the Republic and with his Corsair star ship could cause solar flares and make even super red giants go supernova. Ancient Sith even had on the spot rituals like the one Bane used to purge a planet of life.


So yeah, with that being said I feel that's what Traya is mody likely referring to than any individual Lord, although that's not to necessarily say that isn't a possibility.

Darth Traya doesn't know everything and her perspectives can be subjective at times much like that of any historian. Chris Avellone also stated that she doesn't know everything.

The Merchant wrote:Yeah, she does say "some."  So it is possible she was referring to individuals, but ad I mentioned said individuals can have access to crazy stuff if Sadow is any measure to go by.

I do wanna say from a RL perspective the author of Supernatural encounters actually dabbled a bit on Trayas quote. He said something along the lines of that, when Traya said Nihilus would rival some of the ancient Sith, he asked which ones? Which Ancient Sith could kill whole worlds? Ofc that isn't anything official, but it might suggest what is /probably/ the case... which is KOTOR 3 was going to paint the Ancient Sith in a faaar different light then ehat we got.


But yeah, Muur is a good point to bring up. The spirits of Kun and Ragnos being a threat to Post JA Luke also good points as well, I am hesitant with that line of thinking because then you could very well place these individuals above ROTS Palpatine. Dark Empire era Palps would still be on top considering what it took to take him down, so there is a very large gap from him and ROTS.

No ancient Sith have killed a world akin to Darth Nihilus (Katarr).

Sith Lords of the ancient Sith Empire are pioneers of Sith Lightning and draining applications on the other hand:

The Sith have developed terrifying powers, such as the ability to drain a being of its life force, or unleash their hatred as crackling bolts of energy. The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld. Ancient Sith were also masters of these arts. - Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia

Tulak Hord applied Drain Life Essence on a mass scale:

In his time as Dark Lord of the Sith, Tulak Hord was known as a master of the mystical dark arts of the Force, using his powers to plumb the depths of life and death. In the battles of Yn and Chabosh, Tulak Hord is believed to have used a ritual to draw the strength of his enemies to himself, growing his power and vitality. One ritual of Tulak Hord’s gets only a scant mention in the histories, but is the subject of myth and legend–a ritual rumored to grant eternal life. No one has ever managed to uncover this mythical ritual, let alone perform it. - SWTOR: Codex Entry: The Ritual of Tulak Hord

- and this:

“Together, Tulak Hord and I devoured our enemies at the battles of Yn and Chabosh and brought the entire Dromund system to its knees. And now I await his return.” - Khem Val (Ritual?)

Tenebrae [Sith Pureblood] adopted a ritualistic technique to consume a world nevertheless - the most ambitious move of its kind among the ancients. By consuming other living beings on such a scale, Tenebrae could prolong his LIFE for a very long time (Sith Sorcery in effect).

- - - - -

Darth Nihilus's ability to consume a world was a byproduct of his "excessive hunger condition." Darth Traya helped him weaponize his hunger to this effect with her teachings. The raw power to kill a world is RARE thing.

Traya's statements are based on knowledge learned from holocrons. Evidently they provided a measure of the power the ancient Sith could wield. Furthermore, Chris Avellone has confirmed twice that Traya's statements are meant to be taken as accurate. More importantly, the Tomb of Ludo Kressh segment of the KOTOR II Prima Game Guide makes it canon that Ludo Kressh massively dwarfs an incarnation of the Exile that is nearly facing Nihilus.

Well Avellone says he intended her to be telling the truth, but his perception of the ancient Sith were never manifested KOTOR III cos obviously that was canceled, so we never got to see the versions of the Ancients that would be superior to Revan and Malak in KOTOR III, so all we have to go off of is what we have, and so far in what we have Nihilus is eating planets and Freedon Nadd isn't anywhere close to that, then you've got the dreaded Malak quote, which yes does count which puts SF Malak above Kun who is far more powerful than Freedon Nadd so it comes down to believing a external quote endorsed by Leleand Chee himself of an IU testimony from a character who would have never even seen Freedon Nadd and only heard stories.

The quotes about KOTOR 3 aren't even relevant. The Malak quote is contradicted by SWTOR:E stating that those buried on Korriban are more powerful than him. So no, it isn't relevant.

LadyKulvax wrote:No, Ragnos appeared to Plagueis pre-TPM on Korriban. Then between ANH and ESB, Sheev was 'cowed' by the Dark Lords(he provides the context of them being the Dark Lords in BOS).

Ah, that makes Ragnos even more>Maul.

Thanks.

Vaelias wrote:Well Avellone says he intended her to be telling the truth, but his perception of the ancient Sith were never manifested KOTOR III cos obviously that was canceled, so we never got to see the versions of the Ancients that would be superior to Revan and Malak in KOTOR III, so all we have to go off of is what we have, and so far in what we have Nihilus is eating planets and Freedon Nadd isn't anywhere close to that, then you've got the dreaded Malak quote, which yes does count which puts SF Malak above Kun who is far more powerful than Freedon Nadd so it comes down to believing a external quote endorsed by Leleand Chee himself of an IU testimony from a character who would have never even seen Freedon Nadd and only heard stories.

Pretty sure he stated that it was true. That is all we really need to know.

Is it possible that Wyylork pulled a Vader?

Did Wyylork sorta distract and kill Andeddu the same way Vader distracted and cheap-shotted Kirak?

Probably considering most Legacy characters are BoD titan level 

Still above Kun then right?

Seturna wrote:Still above Maul then right?

Absolutely.

Seturna wrote:Still above Marek then right?

Agreed