Asajj Ventress vs KotOR Revan (sabers only)

@LOTL @BaratoBhajji Let's not needlessly antagonize each other.

Exactly what I said to your sister last night, she’s still probably sat on that chair now

Tell her she can move

Also I’m not here to troll, CC persona is reserved for other forums

BaratoBhajji wrote:Grow up girl, Asajj needs all the hype possible to compete in this match because TCW butchers her...

No I’m not Jake

I’m your god emperor

C U C K E D C U R R Y

It's not like her Legends showings are not shit level either. She gets matched by Kenobi in tk, when the latter is literally tortured for weeks using the force, Sith torture masks and having maggots feast on his flesh for weeks

The only hype she gets is her putting Sorzus Syn to shame, but that doesn't reflect on the characters she encounters every time in her era and gets owned most times by them. Forget that, she is given a contest by Kenobi that was affected by the gas that downed the Gungans on the entire moon, and that was labelled more dangerous than the force harvester

It is consistent with Kenobi and Skywalker kicking her ass solo after 2008.

Right, but she swiped early-war Kenobi immediately after facing Kit Fisto. She’s not rife with constant defeats, her showing against a tortured Kenobi isn’t a bad feat for her but a good feat for Kenobi. Also I have no idea where you got the notion that a poisoned Kenobi gave her a good fight, she absolutely swept him under the carpet. Her last showing against Anakin was decisively in her favour until he went psycho, and she has hype placing her above the prodigious combat innovator, Sora Bulq. Either way this match is close

Welcome cucked, I foresee we will do great things together.

There is not a greater backed stance in the mythos than Asajj Ventress >> Obi-Wan Kenobi.

RotS Kenobi is >> Ventress

Because RotS Kenobi = Grievous

Asajj mops the floor with Grievous also

Grievous mops the floor with Dooku

Kolar mops the floor with GG

What an excellent line of scaling we have here

I’ve always said Kolar only died to Sidious because he was looking at the traffic outside

Nah, it would be too boring if he just one shotted Sidious in sabers. Way better to become a force ghost and watch the OT play out.

Right, but she swiped early-war Kenobi immediately after facing Kit Fisto.

Lmfao, she "lost" to CD Kenobi the latter being hindered by going through the force field, and emotionally unbalanced. The most she could do was land a kick, and it is telling that she couldn't even beat him quickly despite such a massively advantageous position. Instead, Obi Wan feels only a "touch" desperate, that too after a prolonged exchange.

“This is between me and Ventress,” he screamed. Enough of this play! “Anyone who stands between us, dies. Translate it, Ventress!”

“Why?” She snarled.

“What?” he said scornfully. “Haven’t you learned what you wanted to learn? Seen what you wanted to see? What is the point in sending these children to their death? They only die because they trust you. Is there nothing left inside you? If not goodness, then loyalty?”

Her eyes flickered for a moment, and he knew that something he’d said had struck a nerve. She nodded. “Tell them to leave,” she said, and the protocol droid spat out its translation.

He covered the distance between them with a single somersaulting leap. Asajj Ventress was extraordinarily quick, but her very ferocity gave Obi-Wan a hairline opening, a moment when he had the better leverage. He blocked Ventress’s lightsabers, and managed to pin her blades down.

Ventress was surprised, but in the next moment disengaged her right-hand blade and slashed at his neck, attempting to behead him.

There was no time for conscious thought, no time for anything but response as Obi-Wan ducked and spun back. Ventress drew his attention to the left and leapt into the air in a spinning kick that slammed Obi-Wan down into the dock. Once down, he never had a chance to get up again, found himself fighting from his back, wiggling and edging backwards, movement so limited that he knew the confrontation might be over within seconds. The first touch of desperation wormed its way through his emotional shields.

Obi-Wan bared his teeth. As Master Yoda had often said these days, The dark side has clouded the Galaxy. Difficult to see, the future is.

Credit-The Cestus Deception

Her performance in the water possibly couldn't indicate more that she is inferior. Particularly the bit where her augmentation is insufficient to prevent her from getting "stunned" by landing a headbutt on Kenobi, but not only is Kenobi not stunned, he is able to act on it and tear out her rebreather before she can recover

Nearing panic, Ventress dropped one of her lightsabers, and lunged at Obi-Wan, surprising him. She flipped back away, taking that moment to don her own rebreather.

Then, eyes burning with hatred, she came at him.

The two circled each other like some kind of aquatic predators, but both were out of their elements. The question was which would adapt most swiftly.

Lure her. Leave an opening for a stroke in the upper left. I will block more slowly, as she expects. Then I will flinch, as I did with the X’Ting, and she will think she’s aggravated an injury, and that I will back up. She saw me do it twice.

The water was murky, and he realized that he was wrong to trust his eyes. Stop. Defocus. Feel the water pressure as she makes her moves. Trust the Force.

Obi-Wan felt the water surge at him, and he let that surge carry him in its natural arc. His lightsaber flashed in, and for the first time, he cut her.

The wound was low on the ribs on her right side, and her eyes widened in pain and sudden fear.

Instead of moving back, Obi-Wan moved in. She butted him in the mouth, ripping out his rebreather. But the movement stunned her, and he tore hers out in the same instant.

So. There they were, the two of them, beneath the water. The first to bolt for the surface would be exposed and vulnerable. The first one to break loses.

Well, then, Ventress. Which of us can hold our breath longer?

This would be as good a place as any to die. If this was his end, how better than to take a creature like Ventress with him?

And she saw his face. Yes. Like Duris. I’m ready to die here and now, and for these reasons. I’m willing to die to kill you. Can you say the same?

In the same instant, Obi-Wan threw caution to the winds, and went at her. His blade was here, there, at all angles, and her wound slowed her…

She wielded her single remaining blade, eyes wide and staring.

Then something broke inside Ventress. She shrieked a mouthful of bubbles, and triggered something at her belt. The water around her churned into an expanding onyx cloud, as if she had emptied an ink-sack into it.

And in a flurry of bubbles and blackness, Asajj Ventress was gone.

Credit-The Cestus Deception

Pretty simple to understand. He kicked her ass

Not only does he display superior force augmentation, he is also shows superior power/mastery by using the force to adapt to the water and then completely lay waste to Ventress

1. Obi Wan "trusts the force", calms himself and then immediately slashes past Ventress's guard.

2. Ventress headbutts him. Hilariously, instead of Kenobi getting stunned by her move, it is Ventress that gets stunned, her enemy is not only fine, but manages to react faster than she can recover

3. Kenobi then launches an all out offensive, completely overwhelming Ventress and causing her to flee, because something "broke" inside her

The only hit Ventress managed to land on Kenobi happened earlier on in the fight. Based on Kenobi "screaming", scorning, and the fact that he just saw Kit losing to her, it is easy enough to say that he isn't in the right frame of mind for a Jedi that is peace and calm. We easily see that being replicated in his battle against Maul two years later

In contrast, once in the water, he trusts the force, calms himself down, and pretty much easily overpowers her in every exchange that is present between the two later on.

Prove to me that had there been no lake for Kenobi to save himself, Ventress wouldn’t have killed him then and there. You’ve added all these factors, most of which are likely just you reaching, but have neglected to note how Ventress just came off an intense battle with Kit Fisto. You can’t use the underwater battle as a showing to lower Ventress either...because it’s rife with so many factors. Obi-Wan’d disciple won him that battle, not just his skill. Ventress panicked and didn’t take advantage of her surroundings. Kenobi did.

Prove to me Obi-Wan would have survived their duel on the platform if Kit Fisto had not cut its supports, then we will have something to discuss.

BaratoBhajji wrote:Prove to me that had there been no lake for Kenobi to save himself, Ventress wouldn’t have killed him then and there. You’ve added all these factors, most of which are likely just you reaching, but have neglected to note how Ventress just came off an intense battle with Kit Fisto. You can’t use the underwater battle as a showing to lower Ventress either...because it’s rife with so many factors. Obi-Wan’d disciple won him that battle, not just his skill. Ventress panicked and didn’t take advantage of her surroundings. Kenobi did.

Prove to me Obi-Wan would have survived their duel on the platform if Kit Fisto had not cut its supports, then we will have something to discuss.

Right. Prove to me Ventress didn't replenish her reserves after her battle with Kit. Prove to me that that hindered her in any way or reduced her ability to fight in any way

Prove to me that Ventress kept panicking throughout the fight, that she didn't adapt at all. Not just the singular instance at the start where she literally couldn't breathe. Yeah, getting frenzied at that stage is pretty fine. Thing is, she recovered after that, something you conveniently neglect.

You also can't use the land duel, because Kenobi was evidently "emotional" in that battle. Lowering his focus and thus Ventress was able to slash past his guard. I have clearly indicated this but let's ignore it for some reason.

Nope, I have clearly highlighted every point I made. I have also given evidence for every conclusion I derived. Your theory, which is unsupported, that Ventress didn't use the environment, or that she was frenzied beyond the initial stage, or that her brief duel with Kit meant that she also has problems in her battle against Obi Wan are just fantasies not only not supported by the evidence, but also not supported by the lore or they aren't very sensible

Incidentally, I also love how you just sidestepped Obi Wan's clear demonstration of superiority to her by basing it on his adaptability, not his connection to the force. My stance, is based on the clear cut material. Obi Wan is able to use the force to his advantage in the battle, better than Ventress can by showing greater sensitivity to the living force and using it to beat Ventress by using it to his advantage in the water. That shows a greater connection to the force, not greater adaptability

There are two options

Ventress couldn't replicate his ability. In which case, she is markedly inferior to him

Ventress actually did do it, and still got her ass kicked, meaning she is markedly inferior to him

On that, she also hilariously got stunned trying to stun him. If someone tries to stun me, and gets stunned instead, while I am not only fine, I can react faster than they can recover, then yeah, I am better than them. That exposes her lack of augmentation compared to his

Never ever accuse me of reaching or not supporting my stances with evidence again. Not while you have literally scrambled to salvage anything that is worthwhile for her, basing all your arguments on theories not supported by anything at all in the material. You accuse someone of something, make sure you yourself haven't done the same act

Prove to me Obi-Wan would have survived their duel on the platform if Kit Fisto had not cut its supports, then we will have something to discuss.


Stop cutting corners.

BaratoBhajji wrote:Prove to me Obi-Wan would have survived their duel on the platform if Kit Fisto had not cut its supports, then we will have something to discuss.


Stop cutting corners.

I already did lmfao. That duel is not applicable because he was clearly emotional

No he wasn’t lmao, he was in the same state of mind every Force user enters when they’re in conflict. There’s no evidence to support this. Their fight with the X’ting was just like every other fight. Kit goes to kill them. Obi-Wan actively wants to spare them, mainting his mental composure. Obi-Wan has no mental handicap

Prove to me Obi-Wan would have survived their duel on the platform if Kit Fisto had not cut its supports, then we will have something to discuss. Actually prove it, don’t cry this time.

Also, Ventress starts off the water battle panicked, which is obvious. The text then insinuates that Kenobi adapts to this completely forgein environment a lot better than she does, and scores a hit because of it. That wound obviously throws off her focus, Obi-Wan capitalises on it. She headbuts him, which stuns her and not him because he’s in a state of focus and she’s wounded and panicked. She loses her rebreather and flees the fight. Their commitments to the fight were not the same. Kenobi was willing to die to take her with him, but she wasn’t willing to do the same.

It’s simple from my perspective. You’re using this as your main argument to prove Kenobi’s superiority...

...but ignoring the fair match that preceded this, the fair match that Ventress was irrefutably winning.

Yes, you are reaching

No he wasn’t lmao, he was in the same state of mind every Force user enters when they’re in conflict.

Which for Jedi is "not" emotional

There’s no evidence to support this.

“This is between me and Ventress,” he screamed. Enough of this play! “Anyone who stands between us, dies. Translate it, Ventress!”

screaming
/ˈskriːmɪŋ/


long, loud piercing cries expressing extreme emotion or pain.

“What?” he said scornfully. “Haven’t you learned what you wanted to learn? Seen what you wanted to see? What is the point in sending these children to their death? They only die because they trust you. Is there nothing left inside you? If not goodness, then loyalty?”

scorn
/skɔːn/
scorn:


a feeling and expression of contempt or disdain for someone or something.

You have-Baseless bullshit

I have-Two statements that both indicate "extreme emotion" in Obi Wan and his feelings of contempt to Ventress both emotions that are very un-Jedi like and have emotionally unbalanced him time and again.

Their fight with the X’ting was just like every other fight. Kit goes to kill them. Obi-Wan actively wants to spare them, mainting his mental composure.

This right here is the kind of crap that makes me wonder if you are serious or trolling.

The objective of discussion here is Ventress not the X'ting. Ventress is responsible for Obi Wan's emotions flaring up, not the X'ting. For Mace, it was not the hordes of savages that mentally unbalanced him, it was the prospect of battling his former student that mentally unbalanced him. It might be a revolutionary concept to you, but it is possible for humans to get emotional suddenly, and it is possible that another being is the cause of that emotional disturbance.

Prove to me Obi-Wan would have survived their duel on the platform if Kit Fisto had not cut its supports, then we will have something to discuss. Actually prove it, don’t cry this time.

This ends our discussion. You really have nothing left to argue

Lmao the only thing this proves is that English isn’t your first language. Everything I said still stands

BaratoBhajji wrote:Also, Ventress starts off the water battle panicked, which is obvious. The text then insinuates that Kenobi adapts to this completely forgein environment a lot better than she does, and scores a hit because of it. That wound obviously throws off her focus, Obi-Wan capitalises on it. She headbuts him, which stuns her and not him because he’s in a state of focus and she’s wounded and panicked. She loses her rebreather and flees the fight. Their commitments to the fight were not the same. Kenobi was willing to die to take her with him, but she wasn’t willing to do the same.

It’s simple from my perspective. You’re using this as your main argument to prove Kenobi’s superiority...

...but ignoring the fair match that preceded this, the fair match that Ventress was irrefutably winning.

Yes, you are reaching

In the first "line". She recovers by getting her breather later on. Nothing after that suggests she didn't adapt or that she still was frenzied lmfao

Yeah, he adapted by "connecting to the force" and letting it guide him. If she couldn't do it, that shows that she can't connect to the force as well as he can hence she is not as good as him.

Is that so hard to comprehend?

Yeah, "fair match" in which one opponent is not only unbalanced, but physically hindered from having to cross a force field. Next, landing one kick does not equal winning.

Yeah, no. You are just being obstinate. My job is likely done here, you are just scrambling

BaratoBhajji wrote:Lmao the only thing this proves is that English isn’t your first language. Everything I said still stands

This is just excellent lmfao. Shame for Ventress she really needs a competent debater.

Just go on. I need the release actually. It's been too long since I have gone without a laugh. Missed our CV debates

XtremeXsaltX