Re: ★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan

March 10th 2020, 7:29 pm

It isn't in every thread and if someone around here actually had a case to make for why they're ignoring the fact Exar Kun is > Gethzerion then perhaps I wouldn't need to?

March 10th 2020, 7:45 pm

Then link back to it. Stop putting a WoT on every page. Clogs it up.

March 10th 2020, 8:08 pm

I'm not WoTing, it was just a Kun vs Geth case.

But again, someone please provide reasons for Geth > Kun, given the rules in the OP.

March 10th 2020, 9:23 pm

Gethzerion.

Voting for either Revan or the Outlander next round.

March 10th 2020, 9:30 pm

Even if it was on a nexus, I have no reason to believe the HoT could replicate killing 100 people in 3 seconds.

Maybe Revan could. Starkiller probably could, and I have been convinced by NotAA3's debate that non-Oneness Starkiller is a worthy opponent for Plagueis, but I'd rather see a TOR powerhouse on the list.

March 10th 2020, 9:34 pm

Geistalt wrote:Even if it was on a nexus, I have no reason to believe the HoT could replicate killing 100 people in 3 seconds.

Maybe Revan could. Starkiller probably could, and I have been convinced by NotAA3's debate that non-Oneness Starkiller is a worthy opponent for Plagueis, but I'd rather see a TOR powerhouse on the list.

Act 3 HoT probably couldn't, no. Maybe with a Force wave, but I doubt it.

March 10th 2020, 9:35 pm

Assume when I say HoT that I mean Outlander HoT.

March 10th 2020, 9:37 pm

Oh, in that case he likely could if he used the Force instead of his usual form of attack (sabers).

March 10th 2020, 9:38 pm

If the lightsaber-stopping TK was Valkorion's doing, then so was the lightning storm the HoT could have created in KotFE chapter 8 when he says "You need my power."

March 10th 2020, 9:41 pm

Geistalt wrote:If the lightsaber-stopping TK was Valkorion's doing, then so was the lightning storm the HoT could have created in KotFE chapter 8 when he says "You need my power."

They both were, but the Outlander scales above that version of Valkorion by the end of KOTET. He's possibly above him by mid-KOTET.

March 10th 2020, 9:43 pm

Then I see no reason why he couldn't use his own TK to stop a lightsaber, like Valkorion or the Consular.

March 10th 2020, 9:44 pm

He probably could, tbh. Wasn't aware the Consular had done it.

March 10th 2020, 9:45 pm

*dead Valkorion in the HoT's body in chapter 16

And the Consular did it against the First Son in Act 3

March 10th 2020, 9:46 pm

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2224-ss-the-apprenticeship-tournament-arcann-xsupremeskillz-vs-darth-tyranus-darthant66

I explain here why that lightning storm shouldn't be far beyond Arcann. As long as you agree peak outlander exceeds Arcann by a considerable or significant degree, you should have no problem believing that peak outlander is capable of replicating it.

@Geistalt

March 10th 2020, 9:53 pm

Except you yourself argue that the lightning storm was "beyond the HoT's potential."

Unless you mean his power. His capability at the time. Because potential means the maximum capacity for strength one has; how strong one could be under ideal circumstances.

March 10th 2020, 9:58 pm

No I meant his literal biological potential. I'm operating under the premise that Valkorion increased the Outlander's potential over the course of kotfe and kotet.

March 10th 2020, 9:59 pm

Here's the vote count:

Revan:
IG
DarthAnt66
KingofBlades
Gianfi
Cheth

The Outlander:
TenebrousWay
Praxis

Gethzerion:
KelDorianUnit
ILS
Jedi_Jesus
Bart
The lord of hunger
Syndiciate
BoD
Geistalt

Darish Vol:
ScionOfSkywalker77
DarthAdi
MasterCilghal

Darth Caedus:
EmperorCaedus
lorenzo.r.2nd

Starkiller:
NotAA3

Exar Kun:
LadyKulvax

Darth Tenebrous:
Azronger

Volfe Karkko:
Seturna

tbh the main things that'd convince me to vote for Revan are his survival against 8 of the galaxy's strongest fighters twice, reducing Nyriss to ash in an instant when Meetra couldn't beat her even with Scourge's help when she had beaten Traya on a far more potent DS nexus, and the literal interpretation of him enduring Vitiate's lightning that was "infinitely more powerful than Nyriss'."

March 10th 2020, 10:20 pm

I'm still challenging the Gethzerion voters to provide reasoning for voting her over Kun given the rules and my rebuttal:

https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t2782p50-top-fifteen-tournament-10-vote-now#52604

March 10th 2020, 10:30 pm

Latham2000 wrote:I don't have any stake in any of these Sidious vs ancient Sith debates, but nothing is absolute in in the Star Wars universe except the movies and animated shows. What Leland means by things not being absolute is that nothing in the EU is immovable canon because retconns can happen, but that in itself doesn't render quotes invalid.

No Leland specifically says he doesn't recognise quotes of most powerful Sith ever because they limit anyone else from being more powerful.

More importantly, that was only a point to make after someone pointed out an OOU Legends all-of-history quote that doesn't only cover the saga.

March 10th 2020, 10:34 pm

Leland doesn't recognise power levels at all and notes that they do have a bearing on gameplay and films. Not sure why that tweet is being used.

★ Top Fifteen Tournament #10 - Revan - Page 5 Scree106

March 10th 2020, 10:36 pm

He's not saying power levels aren't a thing, he's saying he personally doesn't record them

March 10th 2020, 10:37 pm

That's what I said.

March 10th 2020, 10:39 pm

Not what I was referring to at all, this is the quote:

http://forums.starwars.com/thread.j...&start=1200[/mention] wrote:Dave111283(Darth Sexy): Being a huge Marka Ragnos fan, I just wanted to know where he ranks among the most powerful sith lords ever. The way he was always described made me think that he was the most powerful Sith Lord ever until sources came up with Sidious being the most powerful. Can you shed some light on this please?

Captain Yossarian: I don't know for sure but I would imagine that there are no hard and fast lists about which Sith are the most powerful. "Most Powerful" would have lots of different variables to take into account. So it may be best to say that he was simply amongst the most powerful Sith along with Sidious and whoever else there may be. It you definitively say that one Sith was the most powerful then by definition any others that you create in the EU must be inferior so I doubt the continuity people make such absolutes about the powerfulness of the characters.

Tasty Taste (Leland Chee): Agreed, us continuity people don't deal in absolutes. Only Sith deal in absolutes. With that said, we'll often need to come up with stats or rankings for gameplay purposes. These are for gameplay purposes only. Stunt coordinator Nick Gillard had his own lightsaber ranking, but even the use of this ranking system is limited because it was only the major characters from the prequel films that he ranked. We never expanded on that ranking system.

March 10th 2020, 10:42 pm

Ah, I interpreted your use of the word recognize as :acknowledge the existence, validity, or legality of. My mistake
So now that that's cleared up, please explain how the Chee quote you provided invalidates the chee quote on supremacy quotes

March 10th 2020, 10:49 pm

Ah, I interpreted your use of the word recognize as :acknowledge the existence, validity, or legality of. My mistake

No problem. It was meant as in "Leland acknowledges power levels but doesn't record them." Poor phrasing on my part.

So now that that's cleared up, please explain how the Chee quote you provided invalidates the chee quote on supremacy quotes

Explain how my quote invalidates a quote that I've just seen for the first time, you mean. Since you asked:

So it may be best to say that he was simply amongst the most powerful Sith along with Sidious and whoever else there may be. It you definitively say that one Sith was the most powerful then by definition any others that you create in the EU must be inferior so I doubt the continuity people make such absolutes about the powerfulness of the characters.

So as far as Chee is concerned, "the most powerful" should be taken as "one of the most powerful", further emphasised by what is actually said in the question:

Being a huge Marka Ragnos fan, I just wanted to know where he ranks among the most powerful sith lords ever. The way he was always described made me think that he was the most powerful Sith Lord ever until sources came up with Sidious being the most powerful. Can you shed some light on this please?

So Chee is saying not to take "the most powerful" as an absolute and instead apply it in a more relativistic way, that way being "amongst" rather than "the definitive" most powerful, a view I've held for a long time (hence why I have several Sith above ROTS Sidious who has some of these quotes).