Top 10 Sith and Jedi?

Meatpants wrote:My personal Sith list is something like this:

1. Sidious
2. Plagueis
3. Dooku
4. Tenebrous
5. Malak / SIth Revan
6. Sith Revan / Malak
7. Exar Kun
8. Vader
9. Jerec (not a Sith, but he knows enough of the Sith to know the ancient language, I consider him one)
9. Maul
10. ???

Ew no Dooku isn't number 3. Krayt should take that spot

LadyKulvax wrote:Okay, scratch my first list.

Sith:
1.Reborn Sidious.
2.Knightfall Vader.
3.Sarasu Taalon.
4.His Lord and Saviour, Exar Kun.
5.Darth Caedus.
6.Darth Nihilus.
7.Lord-Emperor Krayt.
8.Empire's Wrath.
9.Darth Malak.
10.Darth Plagueis.

Jedi:
1.Grand Master Luke Skywalker.
2.Master Durron.
3.Jedi Outlander.
4.Master Revan.
5.Master Yoda.
6.Master Windu.
7.Master Surik, Master of the Order
8.Barsen'thor III, Warden of the Order.
9.Master Kenobi.
10.Knight Jaina Solo, Sword of the Order.

Interesting list, but why Jaina solo? She’s pretty bad

She's the combat equal of anyone in the Order, which excludes Exile Luke. Which basically means she can throw down with Durron despite being considerably outmatched in Force power.

LadyKulvax wrote:She's the combat equal of anyone in the Order, which excludes Exile Luke. Which basically means she can throw down with Durron despite being considerably outmatched in Force power.

That quote is far too vague. It could apply to Luke, but it could also mean she’s equal to, for example, Tionne Solusar. Furthermore, Jaina was massively inferior to Caedus as of LotF who is tiers below Luke. The power gap, even taking into account the growth between LOFT and FOTJ is far too big to make her even remotely a challenge to either Luke or Durron. And what feats does she exactly have to put her on this level?

Nah, Luke's still in exile at that point IIRC.

Will shift it to a top 20 non entity force users tbh.

1.Luke Skywalker
2.Darth Sidious
3.Nyax
4.Valkorion
5.KF Vader
6.Yoda
7.Darish Vol
8.UnuThul
9.Plagueis
10.Starkiller
11.The Outlander
12.Vaylin
13.Revan
14.Krayt
15.Caedus
16.Kyp Durron
17.Mace Windu
18.Count Dooku
19.Tenebrous
20.Arcann

(In before somebody comes in and starts tearing into my list)

LadyKulvax wrote:Nah, Luke's still in exile at that point IIRC.

No, he had already re obtained his position as grand master in the previous book, ascension

LadyKulvax wrote:Okay, scratch my first list.

Sith:
1.Reborn Sidious.
2.Knightfall Vader.
3.Sarasu Taalon.
4.His Lord and Saviour, Exar Kun.
5.Darth Caedus.
6.Darth Nihilus.
7.Lord-Emperor Krayt.
8.Empire's Wrath.
9.Darth Malak.
10.Darth Plagueis.

Pool Taalon?

GM Luke and Sidious are the most powerful.
Then there are (in no particular order) the likes of Yoda, KF Vader, Valkorion, Plagueis, etc.

(Retracted.)

@dark-sith123 No Nyax?

Narrows eyes*

LadyKulvax wrote:KF is still any > Pre-DE Sidious incarnation.

Sidious was already comparable as of ROTS so I don't see why he shouldn't be more powerful than KF Vader when he grew massively between ROTS and TFU.

@LadyKulvax

Neither is Vaylin, don't be so butthurt. This may as well be top 10 Force users.

I was only joking lmao.

Caedus had a permanent growth in his connection to the Force due to achieving a greater Oneness with the Force than anyone prior. His power was growing daily to the point that only Luke would be able to stop him.

Which would be relevant if you could establish why Caedus being number 2 as of LOTF is impressive and what he scales massively above via his growth.

In a fair fight he stomps Jaina. So yeah, he makes my top ten.

A) What makes Jaina so impressive?
B) Is there any evidence Caedus would stomp prime-FOTJ Jaina or is there just evidence he would stomp LOTF Jaina which I've already heard? Cause if it's the latter consider me unimpressed. Her best TK feats are Hope Satele Shan level (I'm not even certain of that) and she's below people who are sub-Hope Malgus.

Disappointed in a lot of the lists here, tbh.

ArkhamAsylum3 wrote:@LadyKulvax

Neither is Vaylin, don't be so butthurt. This may as well be top 10 Force users.

I was only joking lmao.

Caedus had a permanent growth in his connection to the Force due to achieving a greater Oneness with the Force than anyone prior. His power was growing daily to the point that only Luke would be able to stop him.

Which would be relevant if you could establish why Caedus being number 2 as of LOTF is impressive and what he scales massively above via his growth.

In a fair fight he stomps Jaina. So yeah, he makes my top ten.

A) What makes Jaina so impressive?
B) Is there any evidence Caedus would stomp prime-FOTJ Jaina or is there just evidence he would stomp LOTF Jaina which I've already heard? Cause if it's the latter consider me unimpressed. Her best TK feats are Hope Satele Shan level (I'm not even certain of that) and she's below people who are sub-Hope Malgus.

It means Caedus > Kyp Durron, essentially.

Jaina isn't going from still almost dying to a massively hindered and immolated Caedus to beating him without any such advantages in a straight fight, when we've got nothing to suggest her growth between LOTF and FOTJ: Apocalypse is overly extensive.

@LadyKulvax

It means Caedus > Kyp Durron, essentially.

And what makes Durron impressive?

Jaina isn't going from still almost dying to a massively hindered and immolated Caedus to beating him without any such advantages in a straight fight, when we've got nothing to suggest her growth between LOTF and FOTJ: Apocalypse is overly extensive.

When did I ever claim she would beat him? As far as I'm concerned what I actually claimed was that I wasn't sure if there is any evidence Caedus would stomp her as of FOTJ and you've provided none. Also, just because there isn't any evidence of massive power growth doesn't mean she can't have undergone any and if her feats reflect massive growth then we should logically surmise she did undergo growth. And once again I'm gonna need evidence of why Jaina is impressive as of FOTJ because if her power growth isn't massive from LOTF to FOTJ then there's essentially no evidence she's vastly beyond Hope Malgus let alone actual high tier combatants like Starkiller who you've placed Caedus above.

Jaina’s growth between legacy of the force and fate of the Jedi is difficult to determine, considering that she doesn’t face any worthy opponent beyond lost tribe sith sabers, which are fodder, but it would need to be massive if she is to challenge Caedus in any way, and I see no reason she should.

@ArkhamAsylum3 Durron is extremely impressive. You should take a look at his feats

mastercilghal wrote:@ArkhamAsylum3 Durron is extremely impressive. You should take a look at his feats

As of LOTF? I know Durron has good feats but they all happened before LOTF by which point he's post-prime IIRC.

ArkhamAsylum3 wrote:

mastercilghal wrote:@ArkhamAsylum3 Durron is extremely impressive. You should take a look at his feats

As of LOTF? I know Durron has good feats but they all happened before LOTF by which point he's post-prime IIRC.

He still has this: 

Mara nodded. "I think so. Kyp, any reason to delay?"
"No." He glanced to the left, where the nearby Jedi Temple was clearly visible just past the Jade Shadow's stern. "Unless you'd like to save your engines-I can just pick you up and set you down over there." He reached out with his hand, palm up, an overly dramatic gesture, and the Jade Shadow vibrated for a moment, moving under the pressure he exerted with the Force.‘

Legacy of the Force: Exile
The Jade shadow is a 55 m ship whose weight is around 70 tons, so he has still pretty good telekinesis. 
Furthermore by 42 aby he’s noted to be one of the strongest jedi in existence. Add that to the Viun Galaan scaling and he comes off as a pretty impressive duelist. 

@ArkhamAsylum3 sorry for the bad quality, here is the statement I was talking about: 

-fate of the Jedi, dramatis personae.

mastercilghal wrote:

ArkhamAsylum3 wrote:

mastercilghal wrote:@ArkhamAsylum3 Durron is extremely impressive. You should take a look at his feats

As of LOTF? I know Durron has good feats but they all happened before LOTF by which point he's post-prime IIRC.

He still has this: 

Mara nodded. "I think so. Kyp, any reason to delay?"
"No." He glanced to the left, where the nearby Jedi Temple was clearly visible just past the Jade Shadow's stern. "Unless you'd like to save your engines-I can just pick you up and set you down over there." He reached out with his hand, palm up, an overly dramatic gesture, and the Jade Shadow vibrated for a moment, moving under the pressure he exerted with the Force.‘

Legacy of the Force: Exile
The Jade shadow is a 55 m ship whose weight is around 70 tons, so he has still pretty good telekinesis. 
Furthermore by 42 aby he’s noted to be one of the strongest jedi in existence. Add that to the Viun Galaan scaling and he comes off as a pretty impressive duelist. 

What you have to understand though, is moving a ship with the force is amateurish for the great masters. Anyone who scales above Riva Anu should be able to throw a republic cruiser around with some difficulty. This feat is made even more unimpressive by the fact that the ship was flying, so he isn't even lifting it rather he is just maneuvering it slightly, it's the difference between budging a car and dead-lifting one.

@in-sidiousvader he was exerting full control on the ship, and was doing it with apparent ease. Kyp has admitted he apparently would not be able to replicate some of the feats of his youth, but only because of his personal restraint, which means that should he be pushed to his limits here is the possibility he could make use of his full power, and you know how powerful peak Kyp is. Regardless, my point is that he’s still an impressive combatant based on his scaling from Viun Galaan.

@mastercilghal

So...? That feat is nowhere near enough for AP to place Caedus above Dooku and Galen both of whom have far greater feats. Dooku has effortlessly hurled a 215m Sith Cruiser and Starkiller has ripped a Star Destroyer out of the sky (1600m) and atomized half of a 300m frigate while enduring atmospheric re-entry. This feat doesn't close to any of the aforementioned.

ArkhamAsylum3 wrote:@mastercilghal

So...? That feat is nowhere near enough for AP to place Caedus above Dooku and Galen both of whom have far greater feats. Dooku has effortlessly hurled a 215m Sith Cruiser and Starkiller has ripped a Star Destroyer out of the sky (1600m) and atomized half of a 300m frigate while enduring atmospheric re-entry. This feat doesn't close to any of the aforementioned.

I wasn’t even following the debate between you and AP , I just wanted to provide you with a few feats/accolades for Durron. I do not know anything about starkiller in fact.